Stealth Wars and NightShades/Rangers (Episode II)

[bigchief]

44+15 CS with 50+15 thrust and i never PA more then 500 without crit on Sc-ed ns / sb. Bit more on ns then sb due to resists. i get PA-ed for roughly same numbers by SBs

Agreed tbh. PA's on ns's vary from 350->600 (PA sucks for variance). Sb's 300->500. Im sure some sb will whine that this out damages theirs but I have more CS spec than most and 20% relics.

With 50+15CS my cap PA was 849 with a MP gladius (going back a while here ). So yes 800+ is possible without a crit, and Dorin you cant really compare the PA of a 34+x sb to a 50+21 infil with 3 relics

 

[Ilum]

Am I missing something? What are these "stealth wars" that Mythic is supposed to balance around?

Maybe the problem isn't the stealth classes balance, but the perspective you got on how these classes are supposed to be played.

Hib are generally underpopulated. I think it would serve them bad as a realm to have people playing group-friendly chars hopping over to bandwagon fotm stealthers.

Stealther as a class is suppose to stay hidden and scout imo, and primary target isn't other stealthers, its soft key targets as casters as such. They're really built for larger "realm vs realm" warfare in that regard and is just an annoying addition in "casual Fg v Fg" RvR where they screw up battles by adding on one side to leech realm points.

I don't see why you have the view that stealthers live in their own "instance" of DaoC and is entitled to their own balancing within that instance.

In any case, the number 1 problem with stealthers at the moment is that they are largely overplayed.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Damon_D]

ROFL yeah sure I'm going to attack casters , and whilst doing so I expect the rest of his group to not add/heal because add'ing is rude ROFL !!!!!!!

But sure we dont mind dying without getting any realmpoints , because we get to scout for our realm mates HAHAHAHA :worthy: :worthy:

 

[chretien]

ROFL yeah sure I'm going to attack casters , and whilst doing so I expect the rest of his group to not add/heal because add'ing is rude ROFL !!!!!!!

But sure we dont mind dying without getting any realmpoints , because we get to scout for our realm mates HAHAHAHA :worthy: :worthy:

But why would they 'add', surely they'd be busy dealing with the rest of your group?

You remember? group? Bunch of people on your side that you fight alongside? Whos strengths balance your weaknesses so that together you work as a well-oiled machine.

If stealthers lost the 'everyone must solo' blinkers there'd be 10,000% less whine on these boards.

 

[Damon_D]

But why would they 'add', surely they'd be busy dealing with the rest of your group?

You remember? group? Bunch of people on your side that you fight alongside? Whos strengths balance your weaknesses so that together you work as a well-oiled machine.

If stealthers lost the 'everyone must solo' blinkers there'd be 10,000% less whine on these boards.

As if a SB would EVER get a group ROFL !!!

 

[XeffoInfil]

lol rambo is actually saying he will try to zerg less to beneift you guys to make the game more enjoyable for one and all..now why the hell do you losers have to turn it into a whine thread

 

[Chimaira]

Remove dragonfang and u will notice how easy it is to kill 80% of infils.
Powerleveled gimps

didnt even reach rr3 before I retired mine.
I was slash tho mind you. as I dont find it fun with insta win buttons.

but when PAing a SB for 650 to 800 at rr2 with only purge as RA
Buffed with Mota2 45 cleric buffs.

sword spd was 3.2 mainhand 2.6 offhand. not counting offhand on those PA dmgs either.

and that was regular. ALWAYS 600+. then Cd stun and they was doomed. purge or whatever they cant compete with it.

Laxe hitting for such crap dmg that even a low dw specced infil with outdmg it even if its a hit every 4th swing.

Shadowblades gets tough around rr5 no shit bout that

but a newly dinged 50 infeel can go out and pwn most its wrong.

tho i remember that troll zerk showed me the way back to the bind stone
Ideas:
Make Laxe work as DW/CD
Remove infil 2.5 spec points.
Keep vanish. but make it impossible to attack for another 10-15 sec to prevent double PA. vanish was made to be able to get away
Put dragonfang on a followup to first evade style in thrust line. and make it a 7 second stun (on pair with Laxe stun style)
Make riposte (slash line) followup to be off evade on infils (parry wtf) and keep 5 seconds.
Change Blade line block chain to be a evade chain (?)
Make Axe line 50 str/dex

Remove 2hand from Sbs (overpowered in thid xD)
Lower Sb hit points
raise Ns hitpoints
Keep Inf hitpoints

Ideas only its 06.16 in the morning and ive been ToA hunting all night

me xDDD

 

[Pio]

I disagree about not being able do double pa. Who would buy it then? I know I wouldn't bother spending 10 points on a ra that only lets you get away when if you die all you have to do is go afk on a pad till port.

And pa+vanish is actually sometimes quite hard to pull off and it's on a 30 min timer no problem with it at all.

 

[Dorin]

Agreed tbh. PA's on ns's vary from 350->600 (PA sucks for variance). Sb's 300->500. Im sure some sb will whine that this out damages theirs but I have more CS spec than most and 20% relics.

With 50+15CS my cap PA was 849 with a MP gladius (going back a while here ). So yes 800+ is possible without a crit, and Dorin you cant really compare the PA of a 34+x sb to a 50+21 infil with 3 relics

44+15 CS with 50+15 thrust and i never PA more then 500 without crit on Sc-ed ns / sb. Bit more on ns then sb due to resists.

great, if you check what i wrote "getting pa-d for 500-800 by infis". Didnt say it was base dmg... point to argue then ? I just wrote what pa-s iam getting usually and now you say the same.
Bigchief: I'm a ns, i dunno about the pa-s of sbs as i dont ply one, but can see that sbs need a boost (ap + slash resistant armor rly kills them against my class at least.) Ofc i cant compare diamondback versus dragonfang, 2.2 spec points to 2.5, higher hp and ws etc etc etc many things out there to argue about but we have ap ! /flex.

 

[Animus]

Rambo solo, what a load of crap.
He still gets his 4 mincers to always have the chicken SOS up and go camp mpkE. "Well done" .

 

[GrivneKelmorian]

This post was pretty funny...

well Rambo camping at mpk isnt going to help. YOU are the lames stealther on prydwen, have never seen you solo.

If you think about stealthers who solo and take pride in it (call it bragging if you like) there isnt many in the "modern times" of daoc.

I can name 3 maybe 4 assasins who solo (sometimes duo) and only 1 of them is alb.

Mid: Myself, durgi.
Hib: Balth fluffle
Alb: Shaeffer

Anyone else claiming you solo...heh, sure. Ive seen plenty of ppl claim they solo, yet i see them camp amg/mmg/hmg/whatever alongside with about 5 - 10 other stealthers. May it be mid/hib/alb.

I aint proud of any of them and last night i had enough. I saw a whole bunch of mid stealthers camping gates of amgE. I laughed/slapped them and ran away.
Later I got a PM saying: its nice to give payback to them sometimes. My answer was easy...
If you stealthzerg them, the albs, they will only bring out more stealthers, they are atleast twice as many as us, we CANT fight them with there own tactics (zerging as a tactic? sure, why not). This is why i refuse to even duo. (sometimes I duo to help out a friend to learn some tricks of the trade )

Please, help the stealther community, quit the zerging, Soon there will be stealthlore on ever stealther and you WILL be toast from FGs roaming with it.

And to Rambo...
You think that NS needs a boost? My opinion is that its the SB that needs the major boost, give us CD/DW mecanics and 100+ offhand dmg and a few decent RAs. As it is now, a SB has to spec 39 LA to get the off evade stun...a stun that is 2nd in a chain and VERY hard to get off.

Nightshades got VERY good RA setup, the ability to spec 50 weapon without gimping stealth or venom THAT much..
Just compare the 2 specs
50 pierce
34 CS
34 stealth
34 venom
21 CD

To my current spec
39 sword
39 LA
34 CS
34 steath
31 venom

Me rr6
NS rr5

I got:
55 sword (items + rr)
67 LA (items + rr + DR2)
50 CS
50 stealth
47 venom

NS got:
55 pierce
48 CD (items + rr + DR2, in this case the NS had this)
49 CS
49 stealth
49 venom

As seen, my opponant has the upper hand in everything, except for offhand spec. But as a NS with 48 CD hits with his offhand maybe less times, but for close to twice as much as myself he has a better offhand dmg output.

The SB is the assasin that needs a boost. The 1.62 LA nerf hit us to hard.

//Dwera Grivnesdottir

 

[Urgat]

!

If you think about stealthers who solo and take pride in it (call it bragging if you like) there isnt many in the "modern times" of daoc.

I can name 3 maybe 4 assasins who solo (sometimes duo) and only 1 of them is alb.

Mid: Myself, durgi.
Hib: Balth fluffle
Alb: Shaeffer

Anyone else claiming you solo...heh, sure. Ive seen plenty of ppl claim they solo, yet i see them camp amg/mmg/hmg/whatever alongside with about 5 - 10 other stealthers. May it be mid/hib/alb.

I dont see why people must tar EVERYONE with the same brush.

I am only lvl 46 atm.

But when i RvR i do it in two ways.

1 - Solo, and Un buffed.
2 - With my guild, in guild events, etc.


But you wont of heard of me, because...

A - I am only RR 2
B - I am not an Uber "forum personality"


For every Stealther who zergs about and is famous for it, there is an unknown stealther, who subscribes to the "silent lone killer" ethos of playing his/her class.

Just wanted to say that. Just because you don't know who i am, doesn't mean i don't zerg.

 

[GrivneKelmorian]

Just wanted to say that. Just because you don't know who i am, doesn't mean i don't zerg.

It also means you are new to the assasin comunity...Dont worry, if you solo ill run in to you sooner or later.

With my statement about ppl who solo...thought was that i wrote about ppl who soloed up to "remotly highlevel" and is a rather known name..

And still, since my dear friend Shaeffer fluffle quit the game I am convinced that every alb stealther is a PLed, stealthzerging noob who likes to own...(except for dreamie who actually stoped chasing me when i got 4 adds..)

 

[old.windforce]

solo stealthing is fecking boring

duo / trio is way more fun. specially with teamspeak

 

[GrivneKelmorian]

solo stealthing is fecking boring

duo / trio is way more fun. specially with teamspeak

i can see why ppl thinks its fun to duo/trio...it gets rather dull after a while running alone without ppl to talk with...

but i still got my /gu, /send, /spam

and with teamspeak it never gets boring

but i dont like to run in groups couse they i dont have to depend on my own senses as much, i can just pop a stealther and wait for my friends to join in... (yes ive tried it, seen every inf do it to me)...

 

[Puppet]

lol rambo is actually saying he will try to zerg less to beneift you guys to make the game more enjoyable for one and all..now why the hell do you losers have to turn it into a whine thread

Because he said it before and nothing changed ?

I mean; the way I see it:

Rambo goes out as a nightshade; thinks WTF? They zerging me? They outzerging me? I need to walk 15 mins back and get killed AFK near Bolg? I dont have dragonfang? I dont have a speed5 class with stealth?

Whine abit about it on the forums. Keeping up his promise a few days (not hard with TOA anyhow), loosing a fight too many and back to old stuff again.

Happened before you know. History tends to repeat itselves.

 

[old.windforce]

i can see why ppl thinks its fun to duo/trio...it gets rather dull after a while running alone without ppl to talk with...

but i still got my /gu, /send, /spam

and with teamspeak it never gets boring

but i dont like to run in groups couse they i dont have to depend on my own senses as much, i can just pop a stealther and wait for my friends to join in... (yes ive tried it, seen every inf do it to me)...

its kinda fun to kill 4 ppl with 2 because of good teamwork. 1+1 >> 2 from fun point of view.

 

[Damon_D]

I disagree about not being able do double pa. Who would buy it then? I know I wouldn't bother spending 10 points on a ra that only lets you get away when if you die all you have to do is go afk on a pad till port.

And pa+vanish is actually sometimes quite hard to pull off and it's on a 30 min timer no problem with it at all.

It would still be mega more usefull than " SHADOWRUN " , if it worked properly it would make it so you could actualy pa a caster in a group and have a chance at killing him AND getting away , Nice to see Chim that not all Infil's think its just all working dandy as it is :worthy:

 

[Downanael]

its kinda fun to kill 4 ppl with 2 because of good teamwork. 1+1 >> 2 from fun point of view.

Nothing to do with the fact Infil/mincer duo is very easy mode? Fun how you can say it's a challenge

 

[GrivneKelmorian]

its kinda fun to kill 4 ppl with 2 because of good teamwork. 1+1 >> 2 from fun point of view.

I cant see a SB + SB or SB + hunter or hunter + hunter duo beeing able to kill 4 enemies.

even if high rr.

the hib versions MIGHT be able to due to AP ect ect, but i doubt it.

SoS is way to powerfull for a stealther class, so is CC.

 

[Dook]

Grive, don't you get enough of bullshitting on IRC?

I've seen untold stealthers solo, just because with the situation as it is, stealthers are smart enough to group at peak times rather than try to solo and get wtfganked by opposing stealthers in groups it doesn't mean they never solo.

Your own movie shows you killing solo stealthers ffs.

Oh and BTW, your post naming the only stealthers you claim solo was so blatantly ass-kissing. :>

 

[Dorin]

Nothing to do with the fact Infil/mincer duo is very easy mode? Fun how you can say it's a challenge

for them (n00bs? :O easy mode is a challenge too ^^

 

[Ilum]

so much qq for a character type thats overplayed beyond belief. you know the main problem is that you're playing those classes, adding one more to the zerg fest.

 

[Dorin]

so much qq for a character type thats overplayed beyond belief.

wuff wuff says mr. paladin which class is overplayed by every spaniard retard / age 12 kid that wanna be a knight :d (tho they are infis now most likely)

 

[old.windforce]

Nothing to do with the fact Infil/mincer duo is very easy mode? Fun how you can say it's a challenge

LOL

sure


imo


:kissit:

 

[Dook]

LOL

sure


imo


:kissit:

Forgive me if I've misread but are you trying to say that an Infi/Mincer duo isn't overpowered?

:touch:

 

[Tindel]

it's the truth

 

[Downanael]

LOL

sure


imo


:kissit:

You dont have a fecking clue do you?

 

[nuky]

LOL

sure


imo


:kissit:

excuse my language, but are you fuckin crazy?

 

[Jenna]

Rly Rambo?