Question State Terrorism?

[Ctuchik]

It may well be but I'm sure Isreal sees it differently.

ofc they see it differently, they HAVE to.

how else could they justify what they are doing if they actually admitted that its illegal?

they may be stupid, but not quite that stupid...

 

[xane]

Personally I blame the Crusaders who took the holy land for the tensions in the area - christians/muslims and jews lived peacably side by side until they captured the holy land slaughtering everyone else in the process.

This lead to a muslim backlash and a cycle of violence that has repeated ever since.

The Crusaders re-took the Holy Land, it was Roman (then Byzantine Christian) for centuries before the Muslim invasion, if anything the Crusades were the backlash.

"Peacefully side by side" is relative, the non-Muslim inhabitants were under the Covenant of Umar (the original Muslim conqueror), "peacefully" does not imply "equally", like a slave lives "peacefully side by side" with his master.

Covenant of Umar I - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[xane]

None of that changes the fact that Britain was instrumental in setting up the new state of Israel.

Britain, and the Arabs, you mean.

Faisal?Weizmann Agreement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[xane]

Indeed..mainly because the world treads on egg shells when it comes to Israel and as a result they can literally get away with murder.

We all know about Israel bulldozing Palestinian homes, Rachel Corrie and all that, but did we see an uproar when Hamas does the same ?

The BBC did an investigation into anti-Israel bias, the facts were buried, what does that tell you ?

Hamas is certainly not innocent and the Palestinians do provoke Israel but Israel does tend to use excessive force and their blockade is just insane.

Over eight thousand rockets and mortar shells since 2009, plus a constitution that seeks your destruction, thats a lot of "provocation".

 

[xane]

Nobodys denying that the Turks/Arabs are are capable of disgraceful actions.

Armenian Genocide - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It's where the word "genocide" comes from, it doesn't get much more disgraceful.

 

[rynnor]

The Crusaders re-took the Holy Land, it was Roman (then Byzantine Christian) for centuries before the Muslim invasion, if anything the Crusades were the backlash.

"Peacefully side by side" is relative, the non-Muslim inhabitants were under the Covenant of Umar (the original Muslim conqueror), "peacefully" does not imply "equally", like a slave lives "peacefully side by side" with his master.

Covenant of Umar I - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Covenant of Umar is a fake though written hundreds of years after the events and in at least two different forms.

Contemporary accounts spoke of Jews, Christians and Muslims living side by side - when the Crusaders arrived they killed everyone - the streets were running with blood.

This atrocity lead directly to the moderate rulers like Saladin being replaced by those who sought revenge.

 

[xane]

The Covenant of Umar is a fake though written hundreds of years after the events and in at least two different forms.

You're getting confused with the Pact of Umar II.

Contemporary accounts spoke of Jews, Christians and Muslims living side by side

I don't deny that, but "peacefully" does not mean "equally".

This atrocity lead directly to the moderate rulers like Saladin being replaced by those who sought revenge.

1099 First Crusade, Siege of Jerusalem and the massacre
1138 Saladin born

 

[xane]

On a separate note - there's very little archaeological evidence that a state of "Israel" ever existed (and none that's undisputed).

You got me stumped on this one, even I can't be arsed to debunk this Irvingian level of historic revisionism, you win.

 

[Embattle]

The land was there long before anyone was, so talking about the issue of who was there first is rather pointless and solves nothing.

 

[xane]

Over eight thousand rockets and mortar shells since 2009,

Should be "since 2001", there have "only" been about 500 since 2009, the last rockets were on 3rd June 2010.

 

[Helme]

Should be "since 2001", there have "only" been about 500 since 2009, the last rockets were on 3rd June 2010.

Also they've killed 28 people, 0.0035% accuracy - Israel should rightfully fear for it's existance.

 

[Scouse]

Britain, and the Arabs, you mean.

No. I meant Britain. Without us it doesn't happen. Pretty simple really.

You want to re-define the thread into something about how bad the arabs are - but it doesn't matter how bad anyone else is.

None of that takes away from the fact that Israel is the well-backed oppressor. Just because one side may act like a twat doesn't mean that it makes it OK to murder and collectively punish anyone.

Ever...


Oh, and the Beeb's been actually fined for pro-Israeli bias in its reporting. So "nyah!"

 

[xane]

Also they've killed 28 people, 0.0035% accuracy - Israel should rightfully fear for it's existance.

The low kill rate is testament to Israel's early warning and air raid defenses. It does not mean that they should just sit back and put up with it.

 

[xane]

No. I meant Britain. Without us it doesn't happen. Pretty simple really.

As can be demonstrated today, without Arab nations, it doesn't happen either.

You want to re-define the thread into something about how bad the arabs are - but it doesn't matter how bad anyone else is.

Fair enough, but that's no excuse for repeating untrue or false information.

Just because one side may act like a twat doesn't mean that it makes it OK to murder and collectively punish anyone.

Applies to both sides equally, no ? Where's the outrage for the other side ?

Oh, and the Beeb's been actually fined for pro-Israeli bias in its reporting. So "nyah!"

But the argument was that "Israel is treated sympathetically and gets away with murder", you've just supported the fact that this is incorrect, Isreal is not treated sympathetically, and does not get away with murder, in fact those points are more likely to be applied to Israel's enemies.

 

[Scouse]

The low kill rate is testament to Israel's early warning and air raid defenses. It does not mean that they should just sit back and put up with it.

Lol! "Early warning" and "air raid defenses".

The low kill rate is because they're not actually rockets but home-made "mortars" that can't even be aimed properly.

They're like firing explosive baked bean cans out of pringles tubes. Yes they can kill if they land next to you, but fireworks have more reliable and more technically advanced targetting systems.

 

[Scouse]

Applies to both sides equally, no ? Where's the outrage for the other side ?

Start a new thread about how bad the arabs are eh? This one is to discuss whether Israel is a terrorist state.

But the argument was that "Israel is treated sympathetically and gets away with murder", you've just supported the fact that this is incorrect, Isreal is not treated sympathetically, and does not get away with murder, in fact those points are more likely to be applied to Israel's enemies.

No. I demonstrated that the BBC has been siding with Israel so blatantly that it was fined for its biased reporting - in support of Israel.


It's a sunny day, so I'm off out, will respond better later

 

[xane]

They're like firing explosive baked bean cans out of pringles tubes. Yes they can kill if they land next to you, but fireworks have more reliable and more technically advanced targetting systems.

10kg of explosive baked beans out of a 6' pringles tube weighing 90kg, for over 10km., preferably from a heavily populated area.

The main principle with mortars and rockets is to fire lots of them, forming a devastating barrage, the main reason this doesn't happen from Gaza is that Israel prevents them from entering the country through a blockade (pitiful attempt to get back on topic there).

Jitladda Tap-arsa, a Thai national was standing by a window and got killed by a mortar round landing outside. Two Palestinians and a Chinese were killed when a rocket landed on the shed they were in. A rocket landed outside a Sederot nursery killing a 3 year old waiting to cross the road with his mother, and another man nearby. Where do you get your fireworks from ?

 

[Helme]

The low kill rate is testament to Israel's early warning and air raid defenses. It does not mean that they should just sit back and put up with it.

lol, missile defense. Even the US has given up on that because it doesn't work, and they love spending money on useless military shit(see the F-22).

If you want scary statistics look up the Israeli counter-attacks, which are deadly almost every single time. Even more depressing is that Israel is going to award the soldier who shot 6 of the activists with a medal, shouldn't that wait until the investigation is done?

 

[xane]

Er, air raid defence is shelters, and early warning is radar and observations (from drones which are also used to take out the launcher).

Red Color - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Even the US has given up on that because it doesn't work

No they haven't and yes it does.

 

[throdgrain]

I dont know why you're wasting your time typing Xane, it will convince non of those people despite perfectly correct rebuttals to everything they've said.

 

[ECA]

You mean perfectly correct if you're only interested in blindly defending Israel

 

[Chilly]

What he said had nothing to do with Israel.

 

[dysfunction]

We all know about Israel bulldozing Palestinian homes, Rachel Corrie and all that, but did we see an uproar when Hamas does the same ?

The BBC did an investigation into anti-Israel bias, the facts were buried, what does that tell you ?



Over eight thousand rockets and mortar shells since 2009, plus a constitution that seeks your destruction, thats a lot of "provocation".

If you think that Israel is so innocent, how about you do a bit of research in how many bombs and mortars they have used against Gaza...as well as the types of rockets and bombs they use....

Perhaps this is a good starting point: http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/news/israel-must-disclose-weapons-used-gaza-20090126

Also if you believe everything in the daily mail no wonder your views are so slanted...even just reading that excuse for a newspaper is bad enough

 

[Raven]

Quoting or linking the Daily Fail automatically loses the argument, its worse than Godwin's Law.

 

[Helme]

I'd suggest Al Jazeera as an alternative to the daily mail. It's fairly unbiased and it tends to report things that especially American newspapers ignore or attempt to hide on their page.

 

[rynnor]

I'd suggest Al Jazeera as an alternative to the daily mail. It's fairly unbiased and it tends to report things that especially American newspapers ignore or attempt to hide on their page.

They are about as un-biased as the BBC

The problem with reporting anything to do with Israel and the Palastinians is that both sides lie constantly - makes it difficult for the rest of the world to get to the truth.

 

[Scouse]

Actually Al Jazeera is seen as a moderate news network. The Beeb (and most western news networks Fox, Sky etc) are seen as more right-wing.

To be fair, I've not seen many left-wing news networks and couldn't name you one offhand, but Al Jazeera's still moderate.

I believe (but couldn't swear) that Al Jazeera wanted to broadcast in the UK but were denied a licence.

 

[Helme]

Press is always going to be biased, but AJ is one of the better news sources. Mixing it with BBC definetly gives a more balanced view of what's actually happening.

 

[ECA]

Al Jazeera is pretty neutral, and has some very good journalists working for them.

 

[Scouse]

As a "direct and perfectly correct rebuttle" to this:

I dont know why you're wasting your time typing Xane, it will convince non of those people despite perfectly correct rebuttals to everything they've said.

Here you go, throddy & xane - it's a more "balanced" coverage of xane's Daily Fail article from EJP - the European Jewish Press.

Just to quote the opening blurb:

LONDON (EJP)--- The British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC) is locked in an unprecedented legal dispute with a Jewish activist who claims its reporting is biased against Israel

Now, I've stated that the Beeb has been fined for pro-Israeli bias. You both ignored that.

I'd go into it further, but I know it's ultimately futile. This is just the opinion of a previously strong supporter of Israel trying to let you know that perhaps things aren't always as you seem to think they are...


To leave you one more quote:

"I myself, as a member of the Jewish community, felt that [reporting was distorted] and was very distressed by it