WTF? So this plane that's 'disappeared'...

[ileks]

Planey-downey? No-GPSey-trackey. Capiche?

Thanks for this.

 

[Hawkwind]

All planes have emergency beacons called ELT's (Emergency Locator Transmitter). It is a self powered unit that should be transmitting unless destroyed or is underwater and the RF signal is being attenuated. This is why submarines use floating bouy antennas when underwater and RF is required rather than the ULFM signals they use underwater.

The fact that the plane just disappeared off the radar and was not seen descending or changing course makes me believe it is a likely terrorist act. B777 have an impeccable safety record and would require multiple catastrophic failures to just disappear.

 

[Raven]

It blew up, Dave.

 

[Scouse]

The fact that the plane just disappeared off the radar and was not seen descending or changing course makes me believe it is a likely terrorist act.

Possibly - but it'd have to be a massive bomb to do that - most would blow a hole in the plane and big enough pieces would be tracked down surely?

On a similar topic...

 

[DaGaffer]

Possibly - but it'd have to be a massive bomb to do that - most would blow a hole in the plane and big enough pieces would be tracked down surely?

On a similar topic...

Not really, that Air India 747 that went down a few years ago was taken out with 6-8 sticks of dynamite in the baggage area (I don't know what that weighs, but not that much). It doesn't necessarily take a big bomb, just one in the right place.

The other possibility is pilot suicide; clunk the co-pilot on the head and then stick the plane in a dive.

 

[Scouse]

Not really, that Air India 747 that went down a few years ago was taken out with 6-8 sticks of dynamite in the baggage area (I don't know what that weighs, but not that much). It doesn't necessarily take a big bomb, just one in the right place.

The other possibility is pilot suicide; clunk the co-pilot on the head and then stick the plane in a dive.

Wouldn't the debris be tracked tho? Or a diving plane?

Edit: Evidently not, or they'd have tracked it :\

 

[Chilly]

I understand (now) that your GPS receiver is just a receiver. I was under the impression that sending a signal back to a satellite (not necessarily the same one(s)) was a relatively simple task (given we have satellite internet and shit). Obviously it isn't.

Actually, two way sat comms gear is relatively cheap (certainly in the context of a Boeing passenger jet) but the jets all have high power multi band radios anyway, so there's little need for it. The crucial point here is that, if the pilot had time to react to a catastrophic situation, there are several emergency systems he could have activated that would emit SOS signals *very* loudly to anything listening on the emergency channels. There are multiple levels of redundancy in those systems so it's almost certain the plane simply blew up or had a similarly instant failure that prevented the captain (or other crew) from activating any emergency beacon systems.

 

[Scouse]

Actually, two way sat comms gear is relatively cheap

Yep. But not two-way GPS, which is non-existent.

 

[leggy]

Interesting article on Wired.com. Most of the points have already been made, but it's a nice starter for the uninitiated:

http://www.wired.com/autopia/2014/03/malaysia-air/

 

[Raven]

If the plane has sunk in one piece they may never find it. Or they may only ever find tiny bits of plane washed up on any old shore. Stuff from Japan is still getting washed up in America a couple of years after the tsunami.

 

[DaGaffer]

The one thing that does surprise me is that no military radars had it tracked. The South China Sea and The Gulf of Thailand are heavily contented regions, with half a dozen militaries very active in the area (you've got four navies on constant patrol just to the east in the Spratley Islands, and then all of the local airforces as well).

 

[leggy]

The one thing that does surprise me is that no military radars had it tracked. The South China Sea and The Gulf of Thailand are heavily contented regions, with half a dozen militaries very active in the area (you've got four navies on constant patrol just to the east in the Spratley Islands, and then all of the local airforces as well).

Some news reports this morning seem to suggest they have tracked it but aren't owning up to it.

 

[Raven]

They aren't going to openly say what radar/tracking ability they have.

 

[Hawkwind]

Possibly - but it'd have to be a massive bomb to do that - most would blow a hole in the plane and big enough pieces would be tracked down surely?

On a similar topic...

No it doesn't a 2lb block of semtex is more than enough. It's why they started to develop blast containment cargo containers after 911, its too easy. Depends on placement of course bit it doesn't take a large device to blow a hole through a few mm of sheet aluminium. Even less for the newer composites used on A380 and B787. The effects in a pressurised cabin at 40,000 ft are very catastrophic. Seats can be ripped out of the bolted tracks (tested to 16g loads). If a blast cuts through a main rib the plane will break up in mid air.

 

[Mabs]

The one thing that does surprise me is that no military radars had it tracked. The South China Sea and The Gulf of Thailand are heavily contented regions, with half a dozen militaries very active in the area (you've got four navies on constant patrol just to the east in the Spratley Islands, and then all of the local airforces as well).

i suspect people wont admit they were tracking it until they need to

 

[Scouse]

No it doesn't a 2lb block of semtex is more than enough

It'd still be a mass on a radar screen surely tho. Considering big flocks of birds apparently show up.

 

[Mabs]

The South China Sea is a marginal sea that is part of the Pacific Ocean, encompassing an area from the Singapore and Malacca Straits to the Strait of Taiwan of around 3,500,000 square kilometres.

sink vs tides ?

 

[DaGaffer]

They aren't going to openly say what radar/tracking ability they have.

Maybe, but with the possible exception of the PRC all of these countries have off-the-shelf US, Russian or European kit; their capabilities are pretty well-known. Of course they may want to keep schtum if they were in the wrong place, or worse, shot it down (but I really doubt that's what happened since every other military in the area would have spotted a SAM launch, that's exactly the kind of thing they're looking for).

 

[Mabs]

i really hope it crashed for some reason, and wasnt a pilot suicide as people are suggesting. what a twatish thing to do :/

 

[TdC]

No it doesn't a 2lb block of semtex is more than enough. It's why they started to develop blast containment cargo containers after 911, its too easy. Depends on placement of course bit it doesn't take a large device to blow a hole through a few mm of sheet aluminium. Even less for the newer composites used on A380 and B787. The effects in a pressurised cabin at 40,000 ft are very catastrophic. Seats can be ripped out of the bolted tracks (tested to 16g loads). If a blast cuts through a main rib the plane will break up in mid air.

what he said. you don't need a big bang, you just need good placement for catastrophic results.

 

[soze]

If it did get blown up in international waters chances are no one would notice for ages. The transponder would make it register as the Jumbo so 9 out of 10 military's would just ignore it? Even if one object turned to 1000 chances are no one in the world was watching that dot at that time? Taking off and landing Air Traffic Control would be paying attention obviously but out over the ocean unless they got a collision warning i bet it is ignored.

 

[DaGaffer]

If it did get blown up in international waters chances are no one would notice for ages. The transponder would make it register as the Jumbo so 9 out of 10 military's would just ignore it? Even if one object turned to 1000 chances are no one in the world was watching that dot at that time? Taking off and landing Air Traffic Control would be paying attention obviously but out over the ocean unless they got a collision warning i bet it is ignored.

Yes but they have logs. They may not have noticed at the time, but if a military radar was on and pointed in the right area, they should be able to backtrack. Unless of course the plane diverted somewhere before disappearing.

 

[sayward]

Took months to locate that French jet that disappeared off Rio.

 

[Zarjazz]

Took months to locate that French jet that disappeared off Rio.

Actually wreckage was found after 5 days but it was something like over a year before submersibles managed to located & retrieve the black boxes from the ocean floor.

 

[sayward]

Actually wreckage was found after 5 days but it was something like over a year before submersibles managed to located & retrieve the black boxes from the ocean floor.

Thanx couldn't remember totally.

 

[Ctuchik]

Some news reports this morning seem to suggest they have tracked it but aren't owning up to it.

[tinfoil hat on] maybe it got shot down by one of those parties? [tinfoil hat off]

 

[Job]

There is two way GPS, the Iridium and Globalstar, Thurya satellites can track phones with reasonable accuracy.

 

[Scouse]

There is two way GPS, the Iridium and Globalstar, Thurya satellites can track phones with reasonable accuracy.

Iridium and Globalstar are sattelite phone system providers. Thurya sattelites cannot "track mobile phones" at all - unless you've specifically modified your android handset for sattelite use.

None of them are GPS systems.

 

[old.user4556]

Looks like a finger is being pointed towards a hijacking:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-26591056

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/03/15/uk-malaysiaairlines-flight-idUKBREA2701C20140315

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...dual-group-significant-flying-experience.html

 

[Litmus]

I find it a bit strange if it flew on for hours extra how come none of the passengers made contact via mobile phones etc.