Politics So...Europe then?

[Wij]

Leave and we lose this...

ECHR is not an EU thing. The EU has the ECJ which has a different mandate.

 

[Scouse]

ECHR is not an EU thing. The EU has the ECJ which has a different mandate.

Hmmm. Possibly.

There's an interesting opinion piece that says we lose either way

 

[Job]

Ha Blairs trying to blame Corbyn now, holy fuck, the c@nt is fucking shameless...I fully expect him after recieving the damning report to point to the sky, shout 'is that superman', then hide behind a tree.

 

[Raven]

Nobody needs to listen to a what Blair says. The man's opinion is as relevant as my cat's.

Besides, the cunt should be in prison.

 

[Wij]

Nobody needs to listen to a what Blair says. The man's opinion is as relevant as my cat's.

Besides, the cunt should be in prison.

They have cat prisons now?

 

[Job]

Hmmm. Possibly.

There's an interesting opinion piece that says we lose either way

What bollocks, mis treatment of disabled peoples in care and prison has fuck all to do with EHCR, its a criminal act of abuse that the 'human rights' lawyers are utterly uninterested in, because the money is in the high profile cases that have distorted importance, but supporters drag out these tearjerkers to justify an utterly corrupt system that hopelessly fails to protect the people it is supposed to.

 

[Scouse]

What bollocks, mis treatment of disabled peoples in care and prison has fuck all to do with EHCR

I refer the honourable gentleman to the article I posted earlier.



However, the rest of your post shows A) a nutbar conspiracy theorist vision of the legal profession (again, look at the other article) and B) a disgusting contempt for the unfortunate ('tearjerkers', really?) which this legislation is clearly doing a good job of protecting.

 

[Job]

It doesnt matter what any expert says about it, the evidence is right in front of our eyes, literally millions killed in plain sight while millions of economic migrants have millions spent on defence of their human rights.

 

[Scouse]

Always about the migrants with you. How about disabled people in the UK?

 

[ECA]

I think you mean work shy soap dodgers?
You can walk 200 yards unaided, GET OFF THE DOLE YOU SCROUNGER.

Spoiler

j/k , I hate the conservatives stance on privatising the screening of the disabled for benefits, its pretty scummy

 

[old.user4556]

I'm quietly chuckling to myself because I've been through exactly what you're all going through.

The bottom line is both Leave and Remain haven't got a clue what the future holds; they can only scare and counter-scare on what might happen and hope that their scare is scarier than the other scare. Are you scared? Take the Scottish Indyref - all of the economics were based on a very, very optimistic oil price ($100 per barrel if memory serves) that supposed authoritative agencies backed up. The reality was that oil has slumped so badly since that Aberdeen has been absolutely fucked seeing tens of thousands of job cuts - Scotland would have had to put up taxes to balance the books, and then some. Did anyone predict it? No. Did Salmond call the No camp scaremongers for saying oil wasn't the be all and end all? Yes. Would Salmond have looked a right cunt now in the event of iScot? Absolutely.

It's the same with this EU referendum. Audiences are coming on the TV saying "will there be more jobs" and "what will my prospects be like?" - you're wasting your fucking time and everyone else's with those pish questions. Nobody actually really knows in this vastly variable, externally influenced globalised world we live in.

It boils down to this: it didn't matter what statistics you put in front of Scotland for the die-hard Yes camp, they wanted independence at all costs. If we were living in tents with no running water, it didn't matter because all the decisions for Scotland were made by Scotland in Scotland. It's the same with this EU referendum - the die hard Leave campaign want out at all costs for "sovereignty" and all decisions for the UK to be "made in London and not Brussels". As I said in my second sentence at the top of this post, it's the scare story driven middle ground that will ultimately make the decision.

 

[DaGaffer]

I'm quietly chuckling to myself because I've been through exactly what you're all going through.

The bottom line is both Leave and Remain haven't got a clue what the future holds; they can only scare and counter-scare on what might happen and hope that their scare is scarier than the other scare. Are you scared? Take the Scottish Indyref - all of the economics were based on a very, very optimistic oil price ($100 per barrel if memory serves) that supposed authoritative agencies backed up. The reality was that oil has slumped so badly since that Aberdeen has been absolutely fucked seeing tens of thousands of job cuts - Scotland would have had to put up taxes to balance the books, and then some. Did anyone predict it? No. Did Salmond call the No camp scaremongers for saying oil wasn't the be all and end all? Yes. Would Salmond have looked a right cunt now in the event of iScot? Absolutely.

It's the same with this EU referendum. Audiences are coming on the TV saying "will there be more jobs" and "what will my prospects be like?" - you're wasting your fucking time and everyone else's with those pish questions. Nobody actually really knows in this vastly variable, externally influenced globalised world we live in.

It boils down to this: it didn't matter what statistics you put in front of Scotland for the die-hard Yes camp, they wanted independence at all costs. If we were living in tents with no running water, it didn't matter because all the decisions for Scotland were made by Scotland in Scotland. It's the same with this EU referendum - the die hard Leave campaign want out at all costs for "sovereignty" and all decisions for the UK to be "made in London and not Brussels". As I said in my second sentence at the top of this post, it's the scare story driven middle ground that will ultimately make the decision.

Absolutely spot on. But I have repeatedly asked people why they think London will make better decisions than Brussels and no one has given me an answer.

 

[caLLous]

Absolutely spot on. But I have repeatedly asked people why they think London will make better decisions than Brussels and no one has given me an answer.

London might make shitty decisions post-Brexit but at least they'll be their shitty decisions. That's the Leave stance in a nutshell.

 

[Jupitus]

Nonsense, they have been fluctuating because of the uncertainty. Currency markets will react to all sorts of questions, they are constantly up and down, day by day. Sometimes more so than at the moment, often with no obvious reason. Usually its just down to a few banks making a bit of a killing, cause it to drop, snap up some currency, wait a bit for the market to recover and sell it on, money for nothing.

Literally, nothing to see here.

Sorry, but that's plain wrong says me who has worked in the financial market data industry for over 25 years (./qualifications). Yes, there will be day to day fluctuations of limited importance but there will also be more significant movements driven by sentiment and the markets themselves defining the currency's value. We have seen clear shifts in the value of sterling as the results of opinion polls have moved and it takes a SHITLOAD of buying or selling of a currency to make such significant changes it being such a massively liquid market.

Financial markets will always pre-empt what is likely to happen - if you look at any release of significant data such as GDP stats or inflation it is never the actual number released that moves the market, it's the variation between the number and what was expected. Companies like Reuters go to great lengths to survey experts in the markets to gauge expectations ahead of such statistical data being released because it's what their clients need.

Oh, and the people making these trading decisions? They're those banking cunts we hear so much about who know jack shit about all this and yet they make so much money for their employers that they earn millions in bonuses...

 

[TdC]

Absolutely spot on. But I have repeatedly asked people why they think London will make better decisions than Brussels and no one has given me an answer.

BUT BUT BUT WE SHALL NOT BEEEE RUUUULLLLELDDDDD

 

[Wij]

Absolutely spot on. But I have repeatedly asked people why they think London will make better decisions than Brussels and no one has given me an answer.

I would think the point is that you can vote in a government to make new decisions if you don't like the old ones. Brussels answers to 28 more electorates.

You'd rather a technocracy? Plato's elite philosopher class? Representation matters in and of itself. Not just good decisions.

 

[Gwadien]

My ww2 uni lecturer just emailed everyone telling us to register to vote, and if you don't vote and you did a question on the 1945 & 1951 let him know and he'll lower your grade.

 

[Bodhi]

Why upbeat UK manufacturing figures have silenced Osborne

Looks like not every sector is concerned. Mirrored what I'm seeing at work as well - very few of our customers are too bothered about Brexit as they either already mostly trade outside of the EU, or are Headquartered there.

 

[Jupitus]

Why upbeat UK manufacturing figures have silenced Osborne

Looks like not every sector is concerned. Mirrored what I'm seeing at work as well - very few of our customers are too bothered about Brexit as they either already mostly trade outside of the EU, or are Headquartered there.

That's certainly true - the trouble is our economy is no longer manufacturing-led.... it's heavily dominated by service industry instead now which does appear to be more at risk...

 

[Gwadien]

That's certainly true - the trouble is our economy is no longer manufacturing-led.... it's heavily dominated by service industry instead now which does appear to be more at risk...

I think there's a lot of thinking like @Bodhi going around - I work in a UK centric industry which doesn't trade externally, and nor do the other businesses that I work with, so therefore it won't effect 'my' industry.

The question is will a 'brexit boost' to 'your' industry outweigh the damage that is caused to other industries which relies on free trade with Europe?

I wonder what effect it will have on the AirBus

 

[dysfunction]

I'm in the industrial insurance market which has a lot of European business much like many insurance companies in London.

Quite a large industry to damage from a Brexit.

 

[Job]

The same forces that dictate the flow of money will exist after Brexit, the money will take the path of least resistance and the UK will be in an ideal position to grease the wheels of finance, we are the most important stock exchamge in the world and if we leave, a collapsing EU will see investors flocking to the pound and dollar...the EU is teetering on the edge, Lepen ahead in the polls, with a campaign pledge to leave the EU and bring back the Franc...that would simply be the end of the EU, even if ee stayed in.

 

[Scouse]

You'd rather a technocracy? Plato's elite philosopher class? Representation matters in and of itself. Not just good decisions.

This is the only argument for Leave that makes any sense whatsoever. And I agree, it's a biggie. Maybe enough to make me change my mind.

But probably not. I don't have kids so self interest dictates the short term gets a weigh in. And there's always hope of reform from within.

What a shame that none of the other Leavers seem to be able to articulate it in that manner. They're all a bit Farage.

 

[Scouse]

SPLITTER!

 

[DaGaffer]

London might make shitty decisions post-Brexit but at least they'll be their shitty decisions. That's the Leave stance in a nutshell.

But they make shitty decisions now. The opportunity to make even more shitty decisions seems to be the only option offered, because everyone in British politics is shite. I just don't see British democracy as being a real thing; not in Westminster anyway.

I would think the point is that you can vote in a government to make new decisions if you don't like the old ones. Brussels answers to 28 more electorates.

You'd rather a technocracy? Plato's elite philosopher class? Representation matters in and of itself. Not just good decisions.

Here's the thing; you've already got that, and I don't mean in Brussels. That's misdirection. Most British politicians are professional politicians supported by a civil service that routinely circumvents manifesto promises through "regulation" anyway. If Brexit actually meant better, representative, government, I'd be a lot more hot and bothered about the EU, but maybe I'm just a massive cynic. I also think that's an inherent danger in this referendum; the UK populus gets so few opportunities to actually vote on something that actually changes anything; there's the real danger they'll vote leave just to change "something", whereas in other countries (like here in Ireland) there are direct referendums on specific issues all the time, so even if we think our politicians are a bunch of useless cronyist cunts (which is the prevailing opinion) there's at least the opportunity to make a direct democratic choice about things elsewhere.

 

[Gwadien]

EU referendum: JCB chairman tells staff of Brexit support - BBC News

Now that's someone you wouldn't expect to support Brexit.

 

[Raven]

I am more surprised the BBC are covering it...

 

[Embattle]

John & Tony should help the remain campaign no end, I mean if we don't have world war 3 we can have an Irish one instead

 

[old.user4556]

Let's put it a different way:

If the UK wasn't in the EU and we were voting to join it, would you vote to join? If not, why not? That should help in a decision.

At the beginning of this thread I said this. Look what came through my door today:



Called it.

 

[DaGaffer]

At the beginning of this thread I said this. Look what came through my door today:

View attachment 33171

Called it.

Called it wrong.