Politics So...Europe then?

[Job]

Seriously, did anyone think different, there is no 'queue', it is based on the usual, backhanders and profits, it is beyond belief that Obama would stoop so low, we would be out on our own , just as we are now, but without the restrictions that stop us from getting devious.
No one in the Brexit camp expects the US/Commonwealth to welcome with open arms, they are not that naive to believe that or bullshit claims we would be ' punished' either, we are the kings of smiling while stealing your wallet .

 

[Gwadien]

Obama is just stating simple facts about an independent UK - he's just basically saying that we're not their special partners, as much as we like to think we are.

 

[DaGaffer]

Seriously, did anyone think different, there is no 'queue', it is based on the usual, backhanders and profits, it is beyond belief that Obama would stoop so low, we would be out on our own , just as we are now, but without the restrictions that stop us from getting devious.
No one in the Brexit camp expects the US/Commonwealth to welcome with open arms, they are not that naive to believe that or bullshit claims we would be ' punished' either, we are the kings of smiling while stealing your wallet .

How is he "stooping so low"? Because he refuses to be a participant in Brexit fantasies? And you're flat wrong; the idea that the UK is somehow super special is central to Brexit narratives

 

[Embattle]

Obama is just stating simple facts about an independent UK - he's just basically saying that we're not their special partners, as much as we like to think we are.

Actually he is just stating what all leaders of countries do, it is all about self interest as it has always been.

Although businesses manage at the moment without any trade agreement and TTIP seems rather unpopular anyway with quite a few people.

 

[throdgrain]

Yep and it's in the USA's interests for sycophantic ol' UK to be in the EU, and speak up for our big brother that don't really give a shit about us.

 

[Scouse]

Who gives a fuck if they don't give a shit.

The USA just spelled out in stark terms that we're fucked economically out of the EU.

So come on Brexiters. Are we really gonna cut our noses off to spite our face? Really?

 

[ECA]

Who gives a fuck if they don't give a shit.
The USA just spelled out in stark terms that we're fucked economically out of the EU.
So come on Brexiters. Are we really gonna cut our noses off to spite our face? Really?

Yeah because the US has no vested interest in us staying in and this is totally impartial

 

[Job]

What use are we to the US?
Firstly we are a semi independent nuclear force that could engage Russia without risking US mainland.
We spy on Europe for them with one of the worlds largest spy HQ's.
We supply them with all the uranium for their nukes.
We can nearly always be relied to back them in wars , so it doesn't look like sole US aggression.
We will soon be back as a major part of Nato, engaging the Russians daily in war games while allowing the US some distance.
They want us to stay in the bloc, because they don't give a fuck about our nationalism, they want the best for them...the rest is bullshit, the US and the UK are intwined to the core like no one else behind the scenes, we may fall out publicly, but we ARE the 52nd State.

 

[Raven]

What use are we to the US?
Firstly we are a semi independent nuclear force that could engage Russia without risking US mainland.
We spy on Europe for them with one of the worlds largest spy HQ's.
We supply them with all the uranium for their nukes.
We can nearly always be relied to back them in wars , so it doesn't look like sole US aggression.
We will soon be back as a major part of Nato, engaging the Russians daily in war games while allowing the US some distance.
They want us to stay in the bloc, because they don't give a fuck about our nationalism, they want the best for them...the rest is bullshit, the US and the UK are intwined to the core like no one else behind the scenes, we may fall out publicly, but we ARE the 52nd State.

51st* 52 if you count DC as a separate state, which it isn't.

 

[ECA]

53rd if you count puerto rico, which is pushing for statehood.

 

[Raven]

I am pushing to win the lottery, doesn't make me a millionaire

 

[DaGaffer]

Yeah because the US has no vested interest in us staying in and this is totally impartial

Of course they're not impartial. That's the whole point. No one owes the UK any special favours, except, ironically, the EU, because we spent decades negotiating them.

 

[Scouse]

Yeah because the US has no vested interest in us staying in and this is totally impartial

So?

I mean of course they're not. But so....?

 

[Job]

So now Ted Cruz says Obama is talking bullshit and the US will welcome the UK with open arms.

 

[Ormorof]

He can say what he likes seeing as he wont be president anyway

 

[DaGaffer]

So now Ted Cruz says Obama is talking bullshit and the US will welcome the UK with open arms.

And if Obama had said the US would welcome the UK with open arms Cruz would now be saying the opposite; because Republicans.

 

[Raven]

heh.

Or opinions...

Just because someone says something you agree with, it does not mean they are correct or realistic.

It would be in the US's best interests to get any trade deal sown up fast, same as Europe. Multinationals plan years ahead, having the ballache of not working with one of the biggest economies in the world would not sit well. And lets not kid ourselves that it isn't the multinationals that run the show.

 

[Deebs]

"American President punctures your dreams". Film at 11.

He just told the truth, and boy that burns with all people who think we can leave the EU and fall into the waiting arms of the "anglosphere".

I don't think that if we leave the EU it will be all cosy, far from it, however, I do know that some arseholes in Brussels will no longer hold sway over how to run our own country. To me it has fuckall to do with the economy. I want the Government that was voted for by the electorate to decide what happens. Simple.

 

[Deebs]

This. And lol@ the people that are getting all whiny about it.

Reality sucks eh?

Not whiny, reality doesn't suck. My reasons for voting to leave are vastly different to yours I suspect.

 

[Deebs]

Who gives a fuck if they don't give a shit.

The USA just spelled out in stark terms that we're fucked economically out of the EU.

So come on Brexiters. Are we really gonna cut our noses off to spite our face? Really?

Absolutely. Nearly everyone I speak to above a certain age has told me they are voting out. The only ones which seem unclear are the young ones. Prime example, my children, 25 and 22, have no fucking idea what it is all about and what the ramifications are, they do not seem to bothered but I keep telling them, in an impartial way, that they must vote to either stay or leave and have told them to talk to their friends, read up on the debate. To add, I have not told them how I am going to vote as I do not want to influence their decision.

 

[Job]

Liar...no inheritance if they don't snapchat themselves voting leave.

 

[ECA]

Absolutely. Nearly everyone I speak to above a certain age has told me they are voting out. The only ones which seem unclear are the young ones. Prime example, my children, 25 and 22, have no fucking idea what it is all about and what the ramifications are, they do not seem to bothered but I keep telling them, in an impartial way, that they must vote to either stay or leave and have told them to talk to their friends, read up on the debate. To add, I have not told them how I am going to vote as I do not want to influence their decision.

This is why I think the leave campaign will win, older people vote, and older people want to vote out.
I think there's a general malaise of people not giving a shit, unlike the Scottish referendum where everyone picked a side.

 

[Gwadien]

I think it's because older people see through the bullshit and have core values, and have decided before the 'debates' - which is absolutely fine.

Issue is, if these were electoral parties, it'd be totally different, the in campaign is just saying what would happen if we left, but they're not offering any promises in order to change the EU if we remained, apart from what has already been (lol) 'achieved.'

Same story for the leave campaign; they're telling us how much money we'd save, and how much immigration we'd curb etc, but would 'we' see this 'saved' money? I doubt it.

Because no main stream party backs leaving, we have no idea what real difference it would make to our every day lives.

 

[Bodhi]

I do find it moderately amusing that the people who were so against the current US-EU trade deal on the table known as TTIP are now the ones going "But lewk! Obama says we won't get our own one!". However given how long it's taken to get ratified (and now looks like it won't go through at all, with Trump, Clinton and Cruz all against it), I can believe his proclamation of 5 - 10 years to set up our own one.

Not that the lack of trade deal appears to be hampering US companies in the EU and vice versa.

I'm also not convinced that staying in will be the guarantee of prosperity and infinite milk and honey it's protrayed to be - the EU is hardly a powerhouse of economic growth and employment at the minute, with several nations lined up to be the next Greece, and I must admit the thought of our taxes going to help a country that can't get their shit together does irk me somewhat.

I am still leaning towards leave, due to a fundamental dislike of the unaccountable, aloof oligarchy the EU has become, but would be happy to change my mind if a compelling argument was put forwards - but sadly, neither side have managed that as yet.

 

[Exioce]

would be happy to change my mind if a compelling argument was put forwards

Here you go:

View: https://youtu.be/Ur7_jT-obmc

 

[Scouse]

After Theresa May's idiotic speech today I thought I'd leave this here:

Patrick Stewart sketch: what has the ECHR ever done for us? - video

 

[ECA]

After Theresa May's idiotic speech today I thought I'd leave this here:

Patrick Stewart sketch: what has the ECHR ever done for us? - video

Have you watched that? It's pretty wanktastic. At least the subs over life of brian made some better points.

 

[Job]

The money is irrelevant, only a cretin would believe that the cash we give the EU would be 'saved' for anything, we would probably cancel it out from day one on a bazillion consultants on Brexit and no doubt duplicate everything the EU do by vastly increasing government spending on anything anyone can think of, all the EU standards would have to be kept to sell in Europe, the energy efficiency, safety, recycling, e numbers or they won't want or be able to buy our stuff.
It will be a political exit, the day to day technical stuff will have to remain.

 

[ECA]

In fact the more I watch that the more cringe worthy it is.

Points it makes:

The right to a fair trial ( Magna Carta )
Right to Privacy ( that stopped our newspapers abusing peoples privacy eh? , not like newspapers tapped murder victims families phones and printed stories about them - oh wait max mosley got some money out of it ).
Freedom from torture/degrading treatment ( uh we outlawed that in 1640... )
Freedom of religion/expression/discrimination ( I can't even. )
Freedom from Slavery ( 1805-1834, debateable when we got rid of it for ourselves/empire/colonies etc. )
Protecting victims of domestic violence ( don't know too much about the echr / our domestic violence laws to be honest, but lamping your missus has been illegal since before we joined the eu ).
Northern Island Peace Process. ( again no clue how it'd affect that ).

 

[ECA]

I quite like the ECHR as well :/ It's definitely advanced civil rights in the uk a bit.
Theresa May and her policies scare the crap out of me. She's straight out of 1984.