Politics So...Europe then?

[Ormorof]

If he was cycling on the road and she stepped in front of him without looking how the hell is that his fault.

 

[~Yuckfou~]

It is a legal requirement that a bike has a front brake if it is to be ridden on the road, so guilty.

 

[Scouse]

It is a legal requirement that a bike has a front brake if it is to be ridden on the road, so guilty.

Yep. Guilty.

Not that having a front brake would have made *any* difference whatsoever. His guilt of a technicality which could have made zero difference whatsoever is why he is in prison. Especially his guilt of "wanton and furious" cycling. An 18th century law designed to prohibit dangerous horse-riding. For horses without brakes, ofc.

He was definitely wantonly and furiously cycling at 18mph in a 30mph zone.

Justice is served. Most definitely. Justice.

 

[~Yuckfou~]

So by your argument if Job runs someone over on his ebike under the same circumstances he's not guilty. As 18mph is illegal on the road for an ebike.
As an aside, what's it like to never be wrong?

 

[Bodhi]

You dirty lefties!

 

[Scouse]

I noticed that you never addressed the point about justice, yuck, in fact you've steadfastly ignored the main thrust of the post, some would say, all of the arguments therein, too.

But nevermind - you managed to follow up with another mistake:

So by your argument if Job runs someone over on his ebike under the same circumstances he's not guilty. As 18mph is illegal on the road for an ebike.

It's not illegal to ride an ebike at 18mph on the road. The speed limit on the road is 30mph. You can ride whatever vehicle you like upto 30mph.

The only objection I have with Job is that he's illegally modified his (heavier) ebike to exceed the pedal assist of 15.5 mph - you should have to pedal to receive motor-assistance and that should cut out at 15.5mph. Modification of this bike turns it into a moped. At which point you must have insurance - because you're driving around a fully motorised vehicle.

If a moped crashes into a woman at 18mph in a 30mph then again, that's not newsworthy. But an un-insured driver is - which is what Job is. An un-insured driver.

But the 18mph in the 30 limit isn't wanton and furious. Is it? Come on Yuck. Is travelling at 18mph in a 30 "wanton and furious"?

Do you even give the slightest shit about justice? Or do you just want to see arbitrary rules applied because "dems the rules"?

As an aside, what's it like to never be wrong?

I've fessed up to being wrong many times on this very site (and am happy to do so IRL too).

But yes, I'm right quite a lot. And in this case too. I don't derive much pleasure from it though - just a sense of frustration at the inherent stupidness of mankind over such simple and obvious stuff.

 

[~Yuckfou~]

So riding an ebike under power over 15mph on the road is illegal then, which was my point.
Laws are laws, you cannot decide which laws are wrong to fit your arguments or because they affect something you enjoy doing.
You really are a peremptory troll.

 

[Scouse]

So riding an ebike under power over 15mph on the road is illegal then, which was my point.
Laws are laws, you cannot decide which laws are wrong to fit your arguments or because they affect something you enjoy doing.

No, it's not illegal - if you have insurance. The act of riding an ebike over 15mph isn't illegal. You must have insurance if your bike has the potential (i.e. -it's been de-restricted) is the only stipulation.

If you're going to get into an argument over specifics, which is a requirement in law, then you make sure you're addressing them.

If Job hits a woman at 7mph on a de-restricted ebike he'll get prosecuted for driving without insurance.


Question: Do you think he would still be prosecuted for "wanton and furious" cycling though? And if he held that insurance, and hit a woman at 18mph, would prosecuting him for "wanton and furious" cycling be in the interests of justice?

You keep avoiding that. You are aware that in the interests of justice we should be not just prosecuting to the letter of the law, but also to the spirit of the law. The prosecution of this cyclist was the state gaming the law to it's advantage to achieve an end, without adhering to the spirit of the law - the intention that was behind the creation of those laws.

It's like using bits of the Terrorism Act to stop @Big G taking photos in a public place of police brutality. It's an abuse of the law. Legal, well, by the letter of the law they can use that power, but it's certainly not in the spirit of the law. (And just because it's written down in law doesn't mean it's legal)

This is not how you achive justice - which should be the aim of our legal system, if it's going to be used fairly for all citizens rather than just another tool of oppression.

You really are a peremptory troll.

No. I'm not trolling. I'm serious about this. I think there was an abuse of justice in this case. And I think it was demanded because the idiot public and a partisan press kicked up such a fuss that the state overstepped its mark.

Anyway - peremptory troll?

 

[~Yuckfou~]

TL : DR

 

[Scouse]

TL : DR

Fair enough. You know when you're wrong, but ain't man enough to admit it.

It is a source of amusement and befuddlement to me why people hang about on discussion forums but don't really want to discuss things- they just want to say their piece and not be challenged.

 

[Gwadien]

Where's the petition to get the law changed?

 

[~Yuckfou~]

Fair enough. You know when you're wrong, but ain't man enough to admit it.

It is a source of amusement and befuddlement to me why people hang about on discussion forums but don't really want to discuss things- they just want to say their piece and not be challenged.

I don't feed trolls.

 

[Scouse]

I don't feed trolls.

If anyone, you're trolling, not me.

 

[Wij]

Worryingly that's seems to be quite accurate atm, it's all about the feelings.

At least that's how it appears with the vocal minorities at either end of the spectrum.

That got me wondering about where I fall so I went to find out:

www.politicalcompass.org

View attachment 39158

Not an exact science but I think that's pretty much where I think of myself as being.

The Political Compass

I'm apparently slightly left-of-centre (I don't see myself that way but whatever) and heavily anti-authoritarian.

I don't like to use the word Libertarian because that seems to have been hijacked these days by the 'free-speech' brigade who think it means they should have a right to say racist things without being criticised rather than just without legal censure.

 

[Gwadien]

The Political Compass

I'm apparently slightly left-of-centre (I don't see myself that way but whatever) and heavily anti-authoritarian.

I don't like to use the word Libertarian because that seems to have been hijacked these days by the 'free-speech' brigade who think it means they should have a right to say racist things without being criticised rather than just without legal censure.

Libertarian

Libertaria

Libertari

Libertar

Libera

Liberal

Liberals

OMGGGGGGG

 

[Scouse]

Labia?

 

[Gwadien]

Labia?

Pls.

Stop trolling.

 

[Scouse]

Can't help it

 

[Scouse]

I'm apparently slightly left-of-centre (I don't see myself that way but whatever)

They've decided what "centre" is really, so you're left of what they say is centre.

Not saying they're wrong, of course. But it'd be interesting to know what an exactly centrist person's views were, based on that thang.

 

[Job]

You can ride a legal ebike at any speed you like because you dont have to have a speedo.
Find a big hill..get up to 50 and give the speed camera the finger.
15 is pretty slow, most people can easily run that speed for a bit.

 

[dysfunction]

Balls. Bikes are not a fucking issue. Cars are.

I see far more Cyclists going through red lights and paying no attention to the "rules of the road" in the City of London than I do cars.

 

[Scouse]

I see far more Cyclists going through red lights and paying no attention to the "rules of the road" in the City of London than I do cars.

I'm prepared to entertain that idea.

But even if that is the case (and I won't disagree) - who kills more people?

You ain't comparing apples to apples.

 

[Scouse]

In my drunkenness I clearly tried to appear far too reasonable there

 

[Job]

Is this just theatre?
The biggest event in the EUs history, Britain leaving the bloc and May gets 10 mins after a lunch to peddle the deal..
I mean..what, why even announce that, some kind of propoganda?
Jesus fucking christ can some reanimate Maggie for just one afternoon.
I also noted the guy to greet her was the Austrian Nazi.
The reality of this deal and the bullshit getting leaked to the media is astounding, is anyone ever going to stop the shitmachine for just one week and tell us as it is without mentioning racists or food shortages.

 

[Scouse]

*sigh* link to what is OUTRAGING you

 

[Gwadien]

I think he means that it turns out Brexit is still a bad idea.

Tusk: May's Brexit plan won't work

 

[Job]

How could you not know this..it was all over the news.

May's Brexit hopes rest on 10 minutes after dinner in Salzburg

 

[Job]

I think he means that it turns out Brexit is still a bad idea.

Tusk: May's Brexit plan won't work

He is correct..anything except punishing us for leaving will not work, and they cant do that..so they are fucked.
The stupid club charges for membership, but they cant afford to punish an ex member, so everyone will see it as the UK getting special treatment, so a fudge has to be arranged to save face on both sides.
We will have to back down to save Europe from itself again.

 

[Gwadien]

He is correct..anything except punishing us for leaving will not work, and they cant do that..so they are fucked.
The stupid club charges for membership, but they cant afford to punish an ex member, so everyone will see it as the UK getting special treatment, so a fudge has to be arranged to save face on both sides.
We will have to back down to save Europe from itself again.

Abso fucking lutely.

So knowing that, why would you want to leave? Surely the best way to leave would have been to stay in and highlight the corruption to the other member states causing a mass exodus of nations?

Euro scepticism across Europe will definitely decline as a result of this; for the exact reason you're saying, the EU will try to ensure that we're fucked because of Brexit as a warning to the other countries.

Obviously that's very fucked up, but that's life, that's politics.

 

[Job]

Gee I hope we dont go all liberal like the continent.

Italian right lines up pro-Russia journalist for top broadcast job