Politics So...Europe then?

[Scouse]

I'm expecting an in vote because it's easier to scare with the unknown.

I'm expecting an in vote because it's the sensible option despite the vote leave lot whipping up fear using false migration and democracy arguments.

But it's all dependent on turnout. Low turnout = loons win.

 

[Scouse]

Low turnout = loons win.

Dunno why you're disagreeing with that @Embattle / @Raven

That exact position was being professed by Liam "massive twat" Fox the other day whilst I was watching him give a talk in the United States in support of Brexit.

So, if the brexiters themselves are hoping for a low turnout of angry idiots (he phrases it as a "peasants revolt") then what view do you two actually hold on the matter?

Or is it just Because Scouse = Disagree?

 

[Job]

Or is it just Because Scouse = Disagree?

I disagree

 

[Raven]

Dunno why you're disagreeing with that @Embattle / @Raven

That exact position was being professed by Liam "massive twat" Fox the other day whilst I was watching him give a talk in the United States in support of Brexit.

So, if the brexiters themselves are hoping for a low turnout of angry idiots (he phrases it as a "peasants revolt") then what view do you two actually hold on the matter?

Or is it just Because Scouse = Disagree?

The usual bollocks from the remain crowd. People who want out = idiots, little actual argument.

Carry on insulting your way into an out vote.

 

[Embattle]

Yes I disagree with it because it is Scouse, but then it isn't as if you've changed or stopped name calling or belittling everything that doesn't fit your champagne socialist tendencies.

BTW This is one of those rare moments I'll type a reply rather than just rate a post, since this thread is clearly another case of some people flogging a dead horse and as usual contains many things that have no relevance to the actual topic.

 

[throdgrain]

The only surprise'll be down to turnout. If the turnout is low we'll exit Europe (the angry rabids will turn up) but if turnout is high we'll stay in.

Do you realise how shit this statement is?

 

[Scouse]

The usual bollocks from the remain crowd

It's the LEAVE crowd. Liam Fox - wants to leave. Campaigning for Brexit.


It's the LEAVERS saying this. Not just me.

Do you realise how shit this statement is?

Take it up with the leave campaign and Liam Fox.

Personally, I think it's just a statement of fact.

 

[Raven]

It's the LEAVE crowd. Liam Fox - wants to leave. Campaigning for Brexit.


It's the LEAVERS saying this. Not just me.




Take it up with the leave campaign and Liam Fox.

Personally, I think it's just a statement of fact.

I mean the bollocks you are spouting, along with the rest of mouth frothing remain crowd, it's becoming ever more desperate and ever more negative.

Also, who the hell cares what Fox has to say about anything?

 

[throdgrain]

It's the LEAVE crowd. Liam Fox - wants to leave. Campaigning for Brexit.


It's the LEAVERS saying this. Not just me.




Take it up with the leave campaign and Liam Fox.

Personally, I think it's just a statement of fact.

Expected better from you, makes you look like a dick.

 

[Raven]

So, currently China is dry fucking Europe over Steel with some crazy tariffs, 46% whatthelol?!? What is Europe doing about it? Absolutely fucking nothing. As part of Europe, Britain is about to lose it's entire steel industry, gone. France will go next then Germany. We could nationalise it (and realistically, probably should) but is the point if, due to cheap Chinese imports, there is no market for it?

The trouble is, producing steel is actually quite technical, it is a skilled profession, you don't just rock up and make steel. We make good steel in the UK, not the shit stuff. If stuff goes south we will be a county that cannot produce steel, we would be utterly fucked.

So...what difference does it make being in Europe? It seem's Europe Ltd is a bit of a limp lettuce when challenged.

Now I am not saying I definitely think the UK would be better alone but surely we wouldn't just roll over and take it like a bitch.

China is booming because it is exporting, what Europe should be doing is fucking them with tariffs in return but they aren't, I cannot understand why...China needs Europe more than Europe needs China, so fuck'um, surely?

 

[dysfunction]

"This member limits who may view their full profile."

Sneaky bastard.

How about now?

 

[Gwadien]

So, currently China is dry fucking Europe over Steel with some crazy tariffs, 46% whatthelol?!? What is Europe doing about it? Absolutely fucking nothing. As part of Europe, Britain is about to lose it's entire steel industry, gone. France will go next then Germany. We could nationalise it (and realistically, probably should) but is the point if, due to cheap Chinese imports, there is no market for it?

The trouble is, producing steel is actually quite technical, it is a skilled profession, you don't just rock up and make steel. We make good steel in the UK, not the shit stuff. If stuff goes south we will be a county that cannot produce steel, we would be utterly fucked.

So...what difference does it make being in Europe? It seem's Europe Ltd is a bit of a limp lettuce when challenged.

Now I am not saying I definitely think the UK would be better alone but surely we wouldn't just roll over and take it like a bitch.

China is booming because it is exporting, what Europe should be doing is fucking them with tariffs in return but they aren't, I cannot understand why...China needs Europe more than Europe needs China, so fuck'um, surely?

I don't know - I feel that this whole situation is more about UK-China relationships, I suppose they want a monopoly on the Steel production on earth, and they pay us off by investing in our country, let's face it, the Tories wouldn't care about the 'people' involved (which nationalisation would achieve) I read somewhere it accounts for 1% of the export of the UK and contributes 0.1% to the economy

 

[Job]

The tariffs are only on a specialised type of steel that the plants make small amounts of, you can't fight world trade, if your product is undercut, then move on.

 

[Ormorof]

China has things we want/need, anything we have thst they want they buy cheap or rip off and if we complain they cut us off

Rare earth metals for example for electronics

 

[Job]

I see that we have 7500 class A highly dangerous prisoners in the UK, 3000 of them are muslim.
Wtf, are they just crooks or jihad loonies.

 

[Embattle]

The tariffs are only on a specialised type of steel that the plants make small amounts of, you can't fight world trade, if your product is undercut, then move on.

The issue isn't being undercut, it is the fact China is believed to be under cutting via subsidies which is enabling them to massively undercut. Personally whatever happens I suspect British Steel production would only get a delay to its execution not a pardon.

 

[chipper]

im really torn in the whole brexit matter i see good and bad in equal measure, which is really leaving me undecided atm. the steel crisis is a no brainer surely it HAS to be saved or are we going to rely on the US or cheap imports to build our fleets? basically the uk defence if our plants shut is dependant on foreign markets playing nice with us. it really is plain to see that china is attacking the steel market in hopes to destroy the major plants in europe and making us dependant on them for cheap steel ofc those prices will be hiked up the moment the last major plant in the EU closes. i cant help thinking that there is also a larger power play going on here china trying to get the EU in bed with them so that they have more leverage when it comes to the US trying to dictate world policy? might be reading into that too much mebbe. the EU could be amazing if we actually had people running it who could keep it together.

also the other big thing for me is science, an area im really hoping to get into. we have a really good thing going on in the EU, science wise we are a leading power and get ALOT of funding from the EU. i dont think it would get that kind of support if we go it alone. also would it limit our participation in the ESA or access to facilities such as CERN? probably not but it might make it alot harder for graduates who wish to pursue a career in those areas to get a foot in the door. so a bit of a selfish reason there but still an important one.

and then ofc there's the usual shit
they took our jobs etc
all muslims are murderous bastards
woe is me im too lazy to work who will support me
letting anyone in europe in.

i stress the last 4 points are made in jest!!!
but the emergency brake could be a good thing if for nothing else than to settle the nations growing distrust of refugee's and european immigrants.

the EU is a good idea BUT its got too big too quick and its sinking under its own weight question is do we keep trying to bale it out or get our asses in a lifeboat and hope we make it.

 

[Scouse]

I mean the bollocks you are spouting

Dunno what you and @throdgrain are whining about - all I've said is that low turnout = Brexit.

As believed by the leave campaign...

 

[throdgrain]

Dunno what you and @throdgrain are whining about - all I've said is that low turnout = Brexit.

As believed by the leave campaign...

The only surprise'll be down to turnout. If the turnout is low we'll exit Europe (the angry rabids will turn up) but if turnout is high we'll stay in.

So, anyone who disagrees with you is an angry rabid, or some other insult?

 

[Embattle]

EU referendum: poll shows young voters could hold key in June vote

I get the feeling this referendum will cause considerable disquiet no matter the result.

 

[Raven]

The yoots will be busy sticking it to the man by refusing to have their say.

 

[Scouse]

@throdgrain - Liam Fox made the point himself - it's anger that's motivating the brexit leavers that the stay crowd just don't feel and that anger that'll take them to the poll booth.

If you dislike my use of the term rabid that much then I get it, but the only people I've actually met IRL who want Brexit have ranted incoherenly about unconnected bullshit, most of which having nowt to do with Europe. The last time being Friday night when a brexiter also professed a love of Trump because of his willingness to up the use of torture.

I call that rabid, myself...

 

[ECA]

EU referendum: poll shows young voters could hold key in June vote

I get the feeling this referendum will cause considerable disquiet no matter the result.

Oh dear, anytime a political campaign is relying on youth voters it basically is admitting defeat.
Young people don't vote.

 

[throdgrain]

@throdgrain - Liam Fox made the point himself - it's anger that's motivating the brexit leavers that the stay crowd just don't feel and that anger that'll take them to the poll booth.

If you dislike my use of the term rabid that much then I get it, but the only people I've actually met IRL who want Brexit have ranted incoherenly about unconnected bullshit, most of which having nowt to do with Europe. The last time being Friday night when a brexiter also professed a love of Trump because of his willingness to up the use of torture.

I call that rabid, myself...

I think I stand by my original statement. Don't be slagging people off because they disagree with you.

 

[Job]

So anger has no place in decision?
It certainly has since the dawn of making them, and it's all very vulcan to dismiss emotion as reckless and rash, but it does get things done, unlike reason and logic that tends to dither through opposing arguments.

 

[Job]

The issue isn't being undercut, it is the fact China is believed to be under cutting via subsidies which is enabling them to massively undercut. Personally whatever happens I suspect British Steel production would only get a delay to its execution not a pardon.

They are free to so this, but have to expect consequences, they spend billions subsidising their steel, we put taxes on something else, it's a game that has played out for thousands of years.

 

[Raven]

So anger has no place in decision?
It certainly has since the dawn of making them, and it's all very vulcan to dismiss emotion as reckless and rash, but it does get things done, unlike reason and logic that tends to dither through opposing arguments.

Anger is fine. Having no argument except throwing insults around, isn't.

 

[Embattle]

They are free to so this, but have to expect consequences, they spend billions subsidising their steel, we put taxes on something else, it's a game that has played out for thousands of years.

Well technically they aren't since it is against the agreements in the WTO, but it would take time and requires commitment to actually take it that far.

 

[Raven]

This whole spending taxpayers money on the propaganda leaflets is getting on my nerves.

Why should I as someone currently neutral, or people who want out having to pay for the pro-sides bullshit? And I know it will be chock full of nonsense in the same way it would be if it was being produced by the leave side. I know its only 9mil which isn't a massive amount in the greater scheme of things but money is money. That sort of money could pay for a fuck load more useful things than stuff that will go straight in the bin.

 

[Job]

I have no doubt whatsoever, that if the vote goes 55-45 to a Brexit, that Cameron will appear on telly with a straight face saying it ain't happening...or he'll kick it into the long grass.