Politics So...Europe then?

[fettoken]

Hey, Ireland and Scotland. Can you separate from UK and join EU? Wales is welcome too.

 

[Scouse]

You're doing your ignore/not read thing again - I've addressed your point directly in the post above. Give it up...

As for your 'range of issues' thing - I don't. We've a single piece of legislation that gives us as individuals recourse against the state. That alone trumps all other considerations.

Without security from the (inevitable) worst ravages of states all other things are meaningless...

 

[Raven]

Speaking of which

UK 'right not to charge Jean Charles de Menezes police' - BBC News

Great job!

Oh wait.

 

[Scouse]

Great job!

Oh wait.

I kinda predicted that from you. That's the court working correctly - or are only judgements that are correct in your opinion the valid ones?

Your "fit for purpose" test does that mean - "court must dole out judgements I want to see happen despite me being a low rent right-wing sun reader"?


Either way - their efforts would never have got that far in the UK courts. In fact, they didn't. And the ECHR judgement should give them some measure of faith that our own courts acted correctly and proportionately.

 

[Raven]

I think you might want to look into the case a little. In my opinion (we are still entitled to one, sorry) the fact that the cop will not be prosecuted for at worst, murder, at best complete incompetence and manslaughter is pretty disgusting.

But hey, if they had ruled against the cops and the UK courts/CPS you would be shouting from the rooftops about what a good job they have done.

Also, nice to see you have reverted to form and started with the playground insults, a sure sign you are out of your depth and have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, as usual.

 

[Raven]

Heh.

...but I apologise that it's not remotely as funny, it being an epic fail on the part of the justice system:



Here's to the future BBC headlines which say "Jury returns 'Open' verdict" or "Jury finds De Menezes killing not unlawful" or somesuch, in a few weeks, followed by the met saying "we always knew we'd be exhonerated" or somesuch.

That is all

Another Epic Fail

Oh, sorry. Poor choice of title

Anyway: Menezes' police gave no warning...




Just like you'd expect. If you'd not had a warning and the cops turn up and grab you you'd expect them to say something before shooting you seven times in the face eh?


Anyway, I was going to paste this on the back of this thread but figured it would be confusing. Either way, I'm neither surprised nor amused that this is the first time that witnesses were asked to give evidence.

Anyone who's upset by these implications, please ignore, I wouldn't want to disturb your well-cushioned calm

Rant - To cheer you all up!

 

[Job]

Speaking of which

UK 'right not to charge Jean Charles de Menezes police' - BBC News

Great job!

Oh wait.

I guess they took into account the pressure on the Police to stop someone pressing the bang button, shouting Police! to someone you think maybe a suicide bomber would be ridiculed if he was.

 

[Job]

I guess they took into account the pressure on the Police to stop someone pressing the bang button, shouting Police! to someone you think maybe a suicide bomber would be ridiculed if he was.
His fate was sealed when confused intelligence marked him as a terrorist.

 

[Bodhi]

Am currently out on training with some of my European colleagues and the EU thing came up towards the end of a very drunken meal. Polish, French, Italians and British were all United in one thing - we feel very uncomfortable with Europe's direction coming out of Germany.

 

[Scouse]

Heh.

I guess I was wrong and emotive eh?

I mean, I'd read shit on the internet about it, and got angry. Then wrote shit.


Either way, my emotional opinion is worth fucking the countries' future over, eh?

 

[Wij]

On those Census figures. A bit of context to what ticking 'Christian' means:

Only 41% of British 'Christians' say they believe in a Creator while 18% say they do not, new survey shows | Christian News on Christian Today

 

[Job]

Im surprised its that many.
I'd love to see a totally anonomus survey for muslims if they believe in mohammed

 

[Raven]

What do you mean "believe in Mohaammed" ? I believe he existed, mostly because he did.

 

[Wij]

Zul Qarnain did too in the loosest fashion where every fact about him is wrong

 

[Job]

What do you mean "believe in Mohaammed" ? I believe he existed, mostly because he did.

Slightly more evidence for him than jesus, but still, that's not saying much, he appears in the Koran, but only mentioned four times in the whole thing and Moses is mentioned 130 times, through oral tradition passed down, people have written about him at the time, but differ widely on key facts and their authenticity and even if they were actually talking about mohammed is in serious doubt.

It's the same pile of shite as jesus, maybes, possiblys and downright wishfull thinking.

 

[DaGaffer]

Slightly more evidence for him than jesus, but still, that's not saying much, he appears in the Koran, but only mentioned four times in the whole thing and Moses is mentioned 130 times, through oral tradition passed down, people have written about him at the time, but differ widely on key facts and their authenticity and even if they were actually talking about mohammed is in serious doubt.

It's the same pile of shite as jesus, maybes, possiblys and downright wishfull thinking.

Mohammed is in the historical record. He's not just in the Koran he's in contemporary Byzantine and Armenian records; e.g. records from the actual time and first hand knowledge, which is more than you can say for Jesus.

 

[Raven]

Exactly, he might well have spouted a whole lot of bollocks but he did exist.

I wouldn't be terribly surprised if Jesus existed either...that doesn't mean I believe he was the son of the sky fairy.

 

[Job]

All that evidence is very unreliable and rarely actually mentions his name, like the Jesus myth, people have 'concluded' they were talking about mohammed.
The clearest writing of a saracen invader called mohammed was given as a date a 150 years after his supposed death..and the name wasn't as insanely popular as it is now.
The mentions in the Koran are said by many scholars to be simply titles to passages.

 

[Gwadien]

Islam started in the 7th Century, that's 700 years after Christianity.

There's more evidence of Mohammed being around than Jesus for definite, we have 1% of 1% of all historical sources from the period when Jesus was around, so proving his existence is largely impossible, Mohammed on the other hand, has multiple sources writing about him.

Especially since he was working and operating around areas which were considered to be the centres of civilisation in the world at that time.

 

[Job]

His near absence from the Koran is rather odd though, independent scholars say that three of the times his name is mentioned are actually just headers.
I mean it's not like either of them are mentioned in any clear cut form, it's all 'well this must mean jesus because this guys sounds similar, they have stretched association to the limit, then peddled it out as fact.
Jesus has been added to endless documents by people in power because of the lack of any proof, many of these are referenced as evidence, when they are quite clearly fakes.
I think the same has happened to the mohammed myth.

 

[Gwadien]

His near absence from the Koran is rather odd though, independent scholars say that three of the times his name is mentioned are actually just headers.
I mean it's not like either of them are mentioned in any clear cut form, it's all 'well this must mean jesus because this guys sounds similar, they have stretched association to the limit, then peddled it out as fact.
Jesus has been added to endless documents by people in power because of the lack of any proof, many of these are referenced as evidence, when they are quite clearly fakes.
I think the same has happened to the mohammed myth.

That's because Jesus = God & Allah = God - Mohammed isn't the son of god, he's a prophet.

That being said, I do think Mohammed is mentioned more than you think/were told.

 

[Job]

Yes, the christian faith is a bit pretentious, everyone else is prophets, ours has to be the son of god.

 

[Gwadien]

Yes, the christian faith is a bit pretentious, everyone else is prophets, ours has to be the son of god.

Yours, not mine, I'm not embarking on your us vs them campaign thanks

 

[throdgrain]

HAS ANYONE CHANGED THIER MINDS YET?


No?

Surprise!

 

[dysfunction]

HAS ANYONE CHANGED THIER MINDS YET?


No?

Surprise!

No!

 

[fettoken]

No!

Where's your profile picture dude?

 

[Scouse]

Surprise!

The only surprise'll be down to turnout. If the turnout is low we'll exit Europe (the angry rabids will turn up) but if turnout is high we'll stay in.

 

[dysfunction]

Where's your profile picture dude?

It's still there! I can see it.

 

[fettoken]

It's still there! I can see it.

"This member limits who may view their full profile."

Sneaky bastard.

 

[Job]

I'm expecting an in vote because it's easier to scare with the unknown.