Shadowblades...

[dub]

hmm stun useless ? , an old hib saying i presume

 

[Aloca]

hmm stun useless ? , an old hib saying i presume

DB stun isnt useless its just that you cant follow up with Hamstring anymore and that negate the use of DB.

 

[Azathrim]

I didnt really exagerate, but its a simple fact of you and me disliking eachother, and you're always off to defend every single Midgard-ability.

Just like you are busy defending anything hib - not to mention attack anything that poses a threat to your particular playstyle/class. <shrug>

The difference is, I at least have an ideal of trying to be level headed and back up with facts. You on the other hand come with wild bias, extreme exagerations and outright misinformation - this thread contains several examples of that.

You obiouvsly didn't understand the point of my previous post by giving your reply. You merely repeated the same bias you already had posted.

C'mon, you are not stupid. You do realize it's the same we post, just putting different bias into it, right?

Do you honestly think 2 mundane-damagetypes of the price for one, while the counterparts dont have this, are fair?

Considering the common opponents both can use mundane damagetypes the SB are weak to, yeah I do.
Is it the prefered solution? Nope.

Style-reduction?

Already said I wouldn't mind if PHN was shared or removed. Does your hatred to me really blind you that much?

If you do, please let me know. Then atleast I know its pointless discussing with you, as your view is even more biassed then mine xD

At least you recognize your own bias. Perhaps it would be healthy if you tried to work a bit with that.

 

[Puppet]

Just like you are busy defending anything hib - not to mention attack anything that poses a threat to your particular playstyle/class. <shrug>

The difference is, I at least have an ideal of trying to be level headed and back up with facts. You on the other hand come with wild bias, extreme exagerations and outright misinformation - this thread contains several examples of that.

Im sorry, but I dont see those 'examples' you mention. The things I mentioned, ofcourse they are 'imo' but they aint less true. Coming with defenses like 'Mythic said Kobolds would be the ideal race' and 'You can slack abit of QUI on your SC' is just looking for stuff really. The QUI might be an advantage, but then the next advantage is being Pierce so we can have a potential higher WS is just.... weird. Then suddenly you twist the argument into such a way adding 101 DEX isnt a downside, but 20 QUI less is an advantage..

You obiouvsly didn't understand the point of my previous post by giving your reply. You merely repeated the same bias you already had posted.

C'mon, you are not stupid. You do realize it's the same we post, just putting different bias into it, right?

Considering the common opponents both can use mundane damagetypes the SB are weak to, yeah I do.
Is it the prefered solution? Nope.

This is where you and me disagree. I know we're both biassed, except you come up with really weird stuff (same with the HP/CON-ratio being a disadvantage, thats just bullshit). Different mundane weapon-types are something which where off-limits to assassins and in the stealthworld it was reserved for hunters, the more melee-orientated archer then the others. Also you always go by the fact that INF/NS *CAN* use slashing damage, however... you list being Pierce and thus having a higher WS as an advantage. Notice how I merely based the story from my experience as pierce-NS.

Already said I wouldn't mind if PHN was shared or removed. Does your hatred to me really blind you that much?

At least you recognize your own bias. Perhaps it would be healthy if you tried to work a bit with that.

Ofcourse I do recognize my own bias. Just saying that mine is alot more valid then yours. Removing PHN would help a great deal in restoring balance, but unfortunaly Mythic isnt planning on changing access to artifacts anytime soon.

Anyhow, I do think its pointless to discuss any further, my hatred to you aint that big I dont see your points, its just I think you make up points just for the hack of it.

 

[Azathrim]

One thing though, your spin is quite obvious in this one, you could have done this better. I have therefore taken the liberty to rewrite it. The same meaning, just a different flavour.

You still don't get it. I were not arguing or trying to argue the balance between pierce ns and norse sbs. I were displaying how redicilius biased your argumentation is Puppet. You apparently refuse to see this, and keep on hammering the arguments that were explicitly and purposedly created to contain as much bias as I could fit in.

Wake up dude, and recognize your own argumentation technique in that example.

It is excactly why people (myself included) only argue with you for the sports and fun of seeing how redicilius you can get. It is a shame though, because you seems intelligent enough - just very blinded. It would be nice to have a decent discussion for once with you were it's the argument and not the zealot that leads.

Anyways, this thread have gone on long enough. Only a few hard-dies left that bothers following it. So, let us call it over and done with, shall we?

 

[Puppet]

You still don't get it. I were not arguing or trying to argue the balance between pierce ns and norse sbs. I were displaying how redicilius biased your argumentation is Puppet. You apparently refuse to see this, and keep on hammering the arguments that were explicitly and purposedly created to contain as much bias as I could fit in.

Wake up dude, and recognize your own argumentation technique in that example.

It is excactly why people (myself included) only argue with you for the sports and fun of seeing how redicilius you can get. It is a shame though, because you seems intelligent enough - just very blinded. It would be nice to have a decent discussion for once with you were it's the argument and not the zealot that leads.

Anyways, this thread have gone on long enough. Only a few hard-dies left that bothers following it. So, let us call it over and done with, shall we?

Basically you're saying:

'Oki I wanna hear Puppet's side of the story regarding SB's and NS's balance then when he pretty much counters all the arguments I make like 'we need more QUI in our SC' and 'we loose more HP from remedy!' I just go into the 'rofl I wasnt doing it for the arguments, just for the sake of the sport discussing with Puppet'.

Over and done? Well I do think the argument has been pretty much discussed into most details, and ironically I still stand by my point. Your 'arguments' didnt really convince me at all.

At the end however, there's one thing which is the beatiful irony of the story: Pierce is pretty much 'dead' now for a NS, due to people running with resist-buffs (be it CL-resists or Shaman ones) and more and more will spec Blades, for various reasons but mostly to twat the FOTM SB's. Meaning in the end all this 'SB luv' will most likely backfire on them in more people going Blades/Slash. Quite fun doing 400 dmg/round on SB's - respecced my Ranger to Blades already and its muchos fun to twat the SB's around back to Svasud xD

 

[Gustav]

Ofcourse I do recognize my own bias. Just saying that mine is alot more valid then yours.

puppet....you are an excellent player and extremely well versed in DaoC info. That is a given. But so far you have spent an amazing amount of time and energy arguing points that are so biased and one sided towards your argument that reading your posts here makes me tune out. You are trying to be Alastair Campbell of the UK Labour Gov. Spin doctoring didn't work for him, and it certainly won't work here on FH.

 

[Tuthmes]

This thread is more about bias l8tly then about anything else

 

[bigchief]

At the end however, there's one thing which is the beatiful irony of the story: Pierce is pretty much 'dead' now for a NS, due to people running with resist-buffs (be it CL-resists or Shaman ones) and more and more will spec Blades, for various reasons but mostly to twat the FOTM SB's. Meaning in the end all this 'SB luv' will most likely backfire on them in more people going Blades/Slash. Quite fun doing 400 dmg/round on SB's - respecced my Ranger to Blades already and its muchos fun to twat the SB's around back to Svasud xD

Its the same for infils, advantage of thrust was always higher ws, less debuff, and a stun.

Now that stun is at 50 and due to wyrd spec theres no need to spec weapon line that high. So actually by going for DF you're gimping your dps as you could have higher DW/CS.

Weapon selection sucks, fighting a sb with 50% to 6 resists (thats not uncommon because of the use of 2 bb's ... its one of the main reasons why both myself and Papasan speced to slash, because you just cannot viably use a lw vs mid stealthers). The artifacts that are thrust only are far insuperior to the slash ones, malice owns GS hands down.

Armour tables, a thrust inf faces 2 neutral, 2 resistant for purposes of using a non LW (using a LW i've already explained :E).
A slash inf faces 2 weak, 2 resistant. The ones that are resistant to are hibs, they dont normally have a warden bb, you can use a LW vs them without too much of an issue. Heat/cold/matter resists are common, spirit/energy are not. Thats not true for mids.

Slash templates are easier to sc, being able to miss out 100dex makes such a difference, all my thrust templates ran around with 75con 200hp (if that). My slash template with effectivly the same WS caps and dmg caps, has 312hp and 99con. It really makes a difference.

The fact you need to gimp your dmg as an inf to get a stun by going 50thrust, you get hit the same by the debuffs now due to WS debuff (or not at all due to remedy!), better weapon selection in the slash line, better armour tables in the slash line.

Which all leads to non debuffable dmg from wyrd spec infil/ns's running around using slash weapons. The amount of slash users has increased so much since the last couple of patchs its silly. And its because there is not a single reason to be thrust any more.

 

[dub]

DB stun isnt useless its just that you cant follow up with Hamstring anymore and that negate the use of DB.

yes big deal , opponent dps just dropped to zero because you stunned him ?

 

[Puppet]

yes big deal , opponent dps just dropped to zero because you stunned him ?

`
Realistically speaking, in an ideal world, this is true. However with the majority of the assassins around my realmrank (RR8+) having Purge3, this is not the case. They purge the stun, and I just wasted a swing with an inferiour style (diamondback with 51 modified pierce is inferiour damage to a hamstring-chain with 68 cs spec) which does lower damage.

 

[dub]

`
Realistically speaking, in an ideal world, this is true. However with the majority of the assassins around my realmrank (RR8+) having Purge3, this is not the case. They purge the stun, and I just wasted a swing with an inferiour style (diamondback with 51 modified pierce is inferiour damage to a hamstring-chain with 68 cs spec) which does lower damage.

in an ideal world purge 3 would allways be up ? (for those who havent tried purge yet ill reveal it isnt allways up)

now the other interesting thing is ofc , how do you know if they got purge up if you dont stun them ?

ill end up quoting you in my signature if you keep this stun is useless charade up

 

[SoulFly]

there really is no advantage of thrust over slash now tho, better weapons, easier sc, one weak one resistant on armour table instead of one neutral one resistant. Given remedy the debuff doesnt matter, the only thing slash lacks is a stun and it has more things going for it that easily out wight that. A hamstring of 445, leaper 475 and rib sep of 388 on a sb earlier (not including offhand swings) pretty much sums up why noones going thrust now

just like I went on about here: (!! since no one seems to like my hard work I'll spread it around! )

https://forums.freddyshouse.com/showpost.php?p=2749354&postcount=18

 

[Aloca]

in an ideal world purge 3 would allways be up ? (for those who havent tried purge yet ill reveal it isnt allways up)

now the other interesting thing is ofc , how do you know if they got purge up if you dont stun them ?

ill end up quoting you in my signature if you keep this stun is useless charade up

I removed DB from QB so i call it useless.

 

[xxManiacxx]

the changes to hamstring chain makes all other evade styles useless for assassins

Besides, nightshades have sidestun anyways so.

 

[Aloca]

the changes to hamstring chain makes all other evade styles useless for assassins

Besides, nightshades have sidestun anyways so.

Exactly.. i just need to learn how to use it good,

 

[Alexandrinus]

Havent gotten off many nice 2handers tbh, this one was quite nice tough.

must be really difficult to PA- someone wich is already fighting another Mid......you must be really proud of it uke:

 

[Bloodaxe_Springskalle]

On another note, more in general really, I do notice this WS-debuff is seriously another nerf to Pierce/Thrust-spec. I take it same goes for Archery and Spear (for hunters) and Friar-staff. When fully debuffed (Malice + WS-debuff) I was sometimes doing less then 100 MH damage :S

That's how SB's have had it since LA nerf basically, until now

 

[Puppet]

in an ideal world purge 3 would allways be up ? (for those who havent tried purge yet ill reveal it isnt allways up)

Ironically, its not always up, ofcourse. But when its up 80-90% of the time you fight a NS who uses Diamondback, ur already saying all of it. Not to mention the majority of SB's said that Remedy was basically up all the time pre 1.82.

now the other interesting thing is ofc , how do you know if they got purge up if you dont stun them ?

ill end up quoting you in my signature if you keep this stun is useless charade up

Smart people already purge more stuff then stuns, eg. debuffs, ASD's, Hamstring/Leaper ABS-debuffs, alot can be purged. Not to mention the inevitable DoT-mine which I purged ALWAYS when purge3 was up against Slash INF's.

Sure quote me in my signature, I dont care. Diamondback is just wasting DPS on a Nightshade as it is. And the same goes for Dragonfang on Infiltrators. Besides the fact they already give up loads of DPS by speccing for Dragonfang.

 

[Lethul]

this seems like a good place to ask

anyone know the abs debuff delves on pincer / leaper / rib ?
im mostly intrested in pincer compared to leaper / rib.

nm, found it

 

[Cylian]

1% pincer
3% Leaper
4% Rib Seperation

iirc

 

[dub]

Ironically, its not always up, ofcourse. But when its up 80-90% of the time you fight a NS who uses Diamondback, ur already saying all of it. Not to mention the majority of SB's said that Remedy was basically up all the time pre 1.82.



Smart people already purge more stuff then stuns, eg. debuffs, ASD's, Hamstring/Leaper ABS-debuffs, alot can be purged. Not to mention the inevitable DoT-mine which I purged ALWAYS when purge3 was up against Slash INF's.

Sure quote me in my signature, I dont care. Diamondback is just wasting DPS on a Nightshade as it is. And the same goes for Dragonfang on Infiltrators. Besides the fact they already give up loads of DPS by speccing for Dragonfang.

dont really know what to tell you if you insist that stun is useless , could point out that these smart people who purge any of the things you mentioned are quite vunerable to a stun , or that if theyd purge your stun they couldnt purge the other stuff.

also your estimation of how often purge is up is more based on playing style than on actual purge timer , but i wont /cry if less hibs have stun on qbar

 

[wittor]

1% pincer
3% Leaper
4% Rib Seperation

iirc

Whats your fucking hp on the sb ?
I got realy upset cause of you today!

 

[Cylian]

heh, no idea how I won that fight

 

[wittor]

heh, no idea how I won that fight

Me neither !

time for some bragging!

Anyway,the new changes on the evade chain are nice, yesterday I did quite a nice hit.
http://users.pandora.be/witt0r/forzool.jpg

I dident use battler or RA's on him and yeah he is level 50.