Shadowblades need love

[Edaemos]

True, you have point there.
I should have come up with better comparison.
But it's still about 1,8million, which is decent amount of killing
And enough to state that I played after LA-nerf.

aye not disputing the played just highlighting the comparison

@wittor i remember alot longer personally.

 

[Salamurhaaja]

aye not disputing the played just highlighting the comparison

@wittor i remember alot longer personally.

1 month might be pretty close, I can't remember numbers.

It might have turned out much longer period than it was but I'm not sure which one it was: Aada stopped playing or was it me who went to pryd for half year or something.

 

[Haldar]

still addicted Sala? )

 

[Salamurhaaja]

still addicted Sala? )

Not to game anymore but I still read forums occasionally and I just couldn't ignore thread about SBs

I'm amazed that you haven't posted anything in this trhead, but I guess you have quit playing too or too tired posting about same problems that have been ages now.

 

[Haldar]

too tired posting about same problems that have been ages now.

this one.

and yes i still play after month's break, even acquired 2nd bot acc - with healer. but i prefer to perform tests and hunt hard mobs solo...as good RvR fights are rare now and farming RPs is boring. Tho i killed merc+minstrel 3 days ago, was fun

 

[Smilewhenyousaythat]

ur char wasent even in rvr back then
and he was the best SB along with Rayne

Actually i was around back then.

And he was 'the best' because on top of a 40% LA damage advantage mid usually had another 20% due to relics. Pretty easy to be the best with that kind of margin imho. Although at least salama used to play like an assassin unlike a lot of the SBs who were minitanks with stelath.

 

[Dorin]

Actually i was around back then.

And he was 'the best' because on top of a 40% LA damage advantage mid usually had another 20% due to relics. Pretty easy to be the best with that kind of margin imho. Although at least salama used to play like an assassin unlike a lot of the SBs who were minitanks with stelath.

put your chars in your sig or stfu imo :<

 

[GrIrcSpammer]

Whats wrong with the infil slash setup? Forb is/was "easily" the hardest infil ive ever met and he was slash using the battler/mallice setup

I think your wrong to suggest that an infils alpha spec is thrust, is it really that hard to think outside of the stun I win box?

ohrly .... u tried papasan wittor ?

 

[GrIrcSpammer]

1. Inherrant perma haste effect - set up correctly enables cap speed swinging and around a 5% damage bonus.

2. High hits, when exploited with RAs and overcap can get into the region of 2300. More hits = last man standing.

3. Single stat weapon = easier to overcap & easier to raise with RAs. Results in far higher ws and easier boosts to damage.

4. Both hands swinging = easier and more consistent poison application.

5. Highest str and con starting race option.

Hows that for starters? All classes have their advantages and disadvantages - SBs tend to whine on and on about their minor disdvantages without playing to their strengths in the current environment. All current tests show no damage disparity, and the only real issues remaining are effects of +TOA% on style bonuses (being tested) and lack of str/dex option/str debuff.

so i should be happy to have my strength debuffed when i cant debuff an infil's dex ? or u rly mean that la > dw .... lol dude just u random clueless spicks stop saying stuff about things u know nothing about

 

[GrIrcSpammer]

and this pos is just retarded every1 knows that infil > sb now what are u suggesting ... i ve played both classes for some rps ... i decided to quit my infil and make an sb cuz i dont like easymode so tell me about it .... tell me HOW THE HELL is amei 48 level infil doing hasmtring on the same target (hib ranger) for 280 when i was doing 190. dot give us that crap lol infil > sb ... as simple as that . the only reason some sbs win is cuz they re rly alerted doing stuff an infil would never even imagine ... i play with perma spec af up abla haste and i use buffbonus items for these charges ... now tell me about an infil that is as worried as i am...

 

[Smilewhenyousaythat]

and this pos is just retarded every1 knows that infil > sb now what are u suggesting ... i ve played both classes for some rps ... i decided to quit my infil and make an sb cuz i dont like easymode so tell me about it .... tell me HOW THE HELL is amei 48 level infil doing hasmtring on the same target (hib ranger) for 280 when i was doing 190. dot give us that crap lol infil > sb ... as simple as that . the only reason some sbs win is cuz they re rly alerted doing stuff an infil would never even imagine ... i play with perma spec af up abla haste and i use buffbonus items for these charges ... now tell me about an infil that is as worried as i am...

I don't disagree that an infil is better than a Sb at the moment - the question is of degrees. I'd say the infil has a minor (1-2%) advantage over the SB, which is considerably less than the advantage the SB had pre 1.62.

Its not like Warrior=armsman is it, or cleric=healer? Or after cats any caster will = warlock?

Realms are balanced. SBs are fine. Quit whining.

 

[censi]

1-2%

 

[-Freezingwiz-]

1-2%

maybe "1(0)-2(0)% can u see the hideing "0" maybe if u look closer ;p

 

[Runolas]

I don't disagree that an infil is better than a Sb at the moment - the question is of degrees. I'd say the infil has a minor (1-2%) advantage over the SB, which is considerably less than the advantage the SB had pre 1.62.

haha 1-2%...you're just a clueless gimp hiding behind not telling the community who your char is ingame.

 

[Puppet]

haha 1-2%...you're just a clueless gimp hiding behind not telling the community who your char is ingame.

Think if you include Phoebus Harp necklace into the equation a SB > Infil if both have same buffs for the rest (spec-AF, perhaps haste)

 

[Runolas]

Think if you include Phoebus Harp necklace into the equation a SB > Infil if both have same buffs for the rest (spec-AF, perhaps haste)

What is keeping an INF from using the same necklace? Sure you can use Malice lvl 10 or whatever and win, but that is not what we're talking about.

 

[Puppet]

What is keeping an INF from using the same necklace? Sure you can use Malice lvl 10 or whatever and win, but that is not what we're talking about.

The necklace ONLY gives the style-reduction for Midgard; because skalds cannot use instruments. 5 mins 75% style-reduction or 30 secs 50% less damage taken with 30 secs later a weakening + it prevents u to use anything else during combat.

My ranger has Winged Helm (only RF/studded or higher tier armour) and when I use that + Battler most infils dont break 70 mainhand on me. Hell I tanked 2 infils (RR5 and RR6) both using cold weapons on my ranger. I walked out on 40% hp.

Shadowblades can have their unique 'i-win'-thingie; surprised to see so little actually use it.

 

[Runolas]

Never heard of any SB that use it, but again we are not comparing artifacts here.

Having RR3-4 Inf running arround with Malice/Battler popping 300-350 mainhand is just silly imho. This debate have been going on for ages, I learnt to play with the old 11sec stun of dragonfang and I really lost interest a year ago (for real). SB imho are better off now than ever since 1.62.

 

[Puppet]

Never heard of any SB that use it, but again we are not comparing artifacts here.

Because the SB's you know are well-known to RvR and such but dont think outside the circle. Loads of people i know at TOA-launch rocked; coz they had perma-stealthlore, hitting with heaters for insane amounts of dmg on people who where still TOA'ing. Now those early-birds miss the jump because they dont have ML's done and such. Artifacts are a big part of the equation in 1 vs 1; whether you like it or not. An artifact, only accessable to SB's (when looking at assassins) which reduces style damage with 75% is a BIG advantage. You can overthrow artifacts; but the fact is they are a major thing in the game by now.

Having RR3-4 Inf running arround with Malice/Battler popping 300-350 mainhand is just silly imho.

Why? You are wearing slash weak armour (unfair; but so be it) so they swinging a 4.1 mainhand (most likely without haste) and are hitting the shittiest armour in game (leather!). How much should they hit for? 200? 250? Isnt that what a tweaked SB does with mainhand but he always swings his offhand ?

This debate have been going on for ages, I learnt to play with the old 11sec stun of dragonfang and I really lost interest a year ago (for real). SB imho are better off now than ever since 1.62.

iirc dragonfang was 9 secs; and yes I played my ranger during it too. And yes it sucked. But its no longer ingame; and dragonfang and malice/battler dont really mix do they :O

The thing 'I' mostly see in the discussions is a mixture of 'stuff' which dont really happen at the same time. A slash-infil wont dragonfang you. Also a Malice/Battler-infil performs pretty bad against a nightshade/ranger.
They're basically specced to be SB/hunter-killers.

 

[Smilewhenyousaythat]

If certain SBs spent as much time thinking outside the box as they did complaining they'd be gods in the game.

Once you sweep aside all the apocryphal stories, made up numbers and pointless whines you find the 3 assassin classes are probably the 3 most balanced class grouping ingame, and that virtually all the whines have no factual basis. In fact most have been completely disproved.

 

[-Freezingwiz-]

imo SBs should run around with more glowie weapons because it look cool ! that would make them score more respect points !

 

[Runolas]

Why? You are wearing slash weak armour (unfair; but so be it) so they swinging a 4.1 mainhand (most likely without haste) and are hitting the shittiest armour in game (leather!). How much should they hit for? 200? 250? Isnt that what a tweaked SB does with mainhand but he always swings his offhand ?

Yes, that is part of the problem. I'm not debateing that DW/CD is better than LA, just that when you add upp all things you end up beeing outmatched. Now I take that as a challenge, makes it even more fun to win 1 vs 1. The difference between NS/Inf as suggested by 1-2% is a joke. Make it 15% and were talking. I use Malice/Traitor I normaly hit an equall RR INF for arround 150+60, debuffed 110+40. So yes imho arround 200-250 seems fair (from a RR6). A RR4 Inf hitting for 300+ mainhand and the occational 100 offhand is too much.

iirc dragonfang was 9 secs; and yes I played my ranger during it too. And yes it sucked. But its no longer ingame; and dragonfang and malice/battler dont really mix do they :O

Hehe...my bad was writing b4 I thought - 9 sec it was, but still during those 9 sec dishing out 1000+ dmg was not uncommon. Dosen't happen now, so for me it got mush better vs INF. In addition Purge2 helps a lot. No Slash and DF does not mach and was not what I said, just that the extream OP of the INf is history. It was much worse b4 then now.

The thing 'I' mostly see in the discussions is a mixture of 'stuff' which dont really happen at the same time. A slash-infil wont dragonfang you. Also a Malice/Battler-infil performs pretty bad against a nightshade/ranger.
They're basically specced to be SB/hunter-killers.

I never said slash/DF matched - read above. Well back in the old days with SZ the reasoning was that it was ok, cuz we sacrifized our ability to take out casters fast - see similarity? The 3 classes should imho be very easy to balance, that is not the case atm.

 

[Smilewhenyousaythat]

imo SBs should run around with more glowie weapons because it look cool ! that would make them score more respect points !

Actually fought a n00b SB with 2 glowies a few weeks after NF - he had a n00b hunter friend with him. Enjoyed that

 

[Helme]

Actually fought a n00b SB with 2 glowies a few weeks after NF - he had a n00b hunter friend with him. Enjoyed that

You do know that only noobs say noob?

 

[Haldar]

Think if you include Phoebus Harp necklace into the equation a SB > Infil if both have same buffs for the rest (spec-AF, perhaps haste)

Harp reduces styled damage done by 75%. considering the fact that ~80% of assasin's damage is base damage and only ~20% is styled damage, total reduction will be 15% only.

Grats mr. SB, u just alleviated the effect of alb spec AF buff -- by using 5min charge from item with crap utility (24), 15 min recharge and 1.5 min cooldown b4 using another item (if any). now compare it to Winged Helm with its 50 util and +10AF.

and Smilewhenyousaythat's char is infi named Asp.

 

[-Freezingwiz-]

Actually fought a n00b SB with 2 glowies a few weeks after NF - he had a n00b hunter friend with him. Enjoyed that

Street respec > rps

that is why my bot have winged helm

 

[Puppet]

[
Harp reduces styled damage done by 75%. considering the fact that ~80% of assasin's damage is base damage and only ~20% is styled damage, total reduction will be 15% only.

Ehmmm 'okay'. If I look at my ranger I take an example of damage :

You perform your Copperhead perfectly (+97):
You attack SB with your adze and hit for 275 (+16).

I think we can agree my base-damage is high due to the fact I debuffed his damage. My base-damage would be lower if he wasnt weak to my damage-type, correct?

I hit for 275; with a 75% style reduction I hit therefore for 178 + (0.25x 97) = 202 damage. Straight up 27% damage decrease (correct me if Im wrong).

However; this is a case where my base-damage is very high due to the debuff.

If it was:

You perform your Copperhead perfectly (+97)
You attack SB with your adze and hit for 203 (-48)

It would be 203 ---> 130. 36% damage decrease.

Assassins (infiltrators) typically see higher style-bonus due to using better styles (CS > normal weapon-line) and doesnt haste lower style-bonus? Im hasted; most infils are not.

As you see the damage reduction is nowhere around 15%; its most likely in a typical case against a non-hasted infil with CS-spec more like 30-40%.

Grats mr. SB, u just alleviated the effect of alb spec AF buff -- by using 5min charge from item with crap utility (24), 15 min recharge and 1.5 min cooldown b4 using another item (if any). now compare it to Winged Helm with its 50 util and +10AF.

Its more like 'Grats mr. SB you just gotten AP2.5-AP3.5 for 5 mins every 15 mins by getting 1 crap UV item in your SC'. And in this patch you can switch it in without resetting arti-timer too.

Be my guest to make the SC 'I must have 26 STR overcap!!!111' if you can get AP3-AP4 for 5 mins every 15 mins.

If you think Im making up numbers or examples; perhaps ask some infils for damage-logs. Dont forget to include also some logs where the SB isnt debuffed for the damage-type yet. Also dont forget that a typical PA gets a nerf of 65% or more with this charge up.

I know for a fact a 75% style reduction is ALOT better then a spec-AF. I dont have logs for examples how much it blocks against infiltrators; but Im guessing its about 70~ dmg which leaves em hitting me for 170~ (so 240 --> 170 = ~ 30%)

Correct me where Im wrong tho; perhaps ranger-melee is entirely different then infils (but I think infils have better styles --> the ratio style-dmg vs base-dmg becomes skewed towards more style-damage ---> Style-reduction becomes (even) better)

 

[bigchief]

rr8 inf, 68cs, 9%melee 5%style. If thats 15% reduction in damage I really should quit my job as a teacher of mathematics.

Evade chain

[18:03:44] You enter combat mode and target [Spinesprout]
[18:03:44] You prepare to perform a Hamstring!
[18:03:44] 99 style damage was blocked by the defender's magic shielding.
[18:03:44] You perform your Hamstring perfectly. (+33)
[18:03:44] You attack Spinesprout with your rapier and hit for 137 (-59) damage!
[18:03:44] You critical hit for an additional 49 damage!
[18:03:44] Spinesprout is bleeding!
[18:03:44] You hit Spinesprout for 3 damage!
[18:03:44] Spinesprout looks weaker!
[18:03:46] You prepare to perform a Leaper!
[18:03:46] 115 style damage was blocked by the defender's magic shielding.
[18:03:46] You perform your Leaper perfectly. (+38)
[18:03:46] You attack Spinesprout with your rapier and hit for 141 (-60) damage!


PA chain


[18:05:59] You prepare to perform a Perforate Artery!
[18:05:59] 416 style damage was blocked by the defender's magic shielding.
[18:05:59] You perform your Perforate Artery perfectly. (+138)
[18:05:59] You attack Spinesprout with your rapier and hit for 222 (-95) damage!
[18:05:59] You attack Spinesprout with your dagger and hit for 104 (-33) damage!
[18:05:59] You are no longer hidden!
[18:05:59] Spinesprout is bleeding!
[18:05:59] You hit Spinesprout for 5 damage!
[18:05:59] You auto-stick Shar.
[18:06:00] You prepare to perform a Creeping Death!
[18:06:01] 86 style damage was blocked by the defender's magic shielding.
[18:06:01] You perform your Creeping Death perfectly. (+28)
[18:06:01] You attack Spinesprout with your rapier and hit for 123 (-53) damage!
[18:06:01] Spinesprout cannot seem to move!
[18:06:02] You prepare to perform a Stunning Stab!
[18:06:04] 127 style damage was blocked by the defender's magic shielding.
[18:06:04] You perform your Stunning Stab perfectly. (+42)
[18:06:04] You attack Spinesprout with your rapier and hit for 164 (-70) damage!

 

[Puppet]

From my PoV (Im Spinesprout in above logs) RR8 Ranger.

Hammie + Leaper

[19:03:31] Bigchiefweale evades your attack!
[19:03:32] Bigchiefweale attacks you with his rapier!
[19:03:32] 99 style damage was blocked by your magic shielding.
[19:03:32] Bigchiefweale hits you for 186 damage.
[19:03:32] You are bleeding!
[19:03:32] Bigchiefweale hits you for 3 damage.
[19:03:32] Your Strength has decreased.
[19:03:32] Your Constitution has decreased.
[19:03:32] Your hits have decreased.
[19:03:32] You feel weaker!
[19:03:34] Bigchiefweale attacks you with his rapier!
[19:03:34] 115 style damage was blocked by your magic shielding.
[19:03:34] Bigchiefweale hits you for 141 damage.
[19:03:34] You are bleeding!
[19:03:34] Bigchiefweale hits you for 5 damage.
[19:03:34] You resist the effect!

The PA-chain

[19:05:34] You target [Bigchiefweale]
[19:05:34] You examine Bigchiefweale. He is a member of an enemy realm!
[19:05:48] Bigchiefweale attacks you with his rapier!
[19:05:48] 416 style damage was blocked by your magic shielding.
[19:05:48] You are no longer hidden!
[19:05:48] Bigchiefweale hits you for 222 damage.
[19:05:48] Bigchiefweale attacks you with his dagger!
[19:05:48] Bigchiefweale hits you for 104 damage.
[19:05:48] You are bleeding!
[19:05:48] Bigchiefweale hits you for 5 damage.
[19:05:49] Bigchiefweale attacks you with his rapier!
[19:05:49] 86 style damage was blocked by your magic shielding.
[19:05:49] Bigchiefweale hits you for 123 damage.
[19:05:49] You cannot move!
[19:05:51] Bigchiefweale attacks you with his rapier!
[19:05:51] 127 style damage was blocked by your magic shielding.
[19:05:51] Bigchiefweale hits you for 164 damage.
[19:05:51] You are bleeding!
[19:05:51] Bigchiefweale hits you for 7 damage.
[19:05:51] You resist the effect!
[19:05:56] You are bleeding!
[19:05:56] Bigchiefweale hits you for 6 damage.

 

[Kagato]

Most of the SB's i've seen these days need some guts more then love, but then, im in a bitchy mood today