Politics Scottish Independance.....Thoughts?

[Raven]

OK

 

[Scouse]

You're unusually quick to respond in this thread. You ready to hate on the Scottish for doing what the British just did?

 

[Raven]

I'm on my lunch and hit F5.

Sorry, should I wait a specific time period?

Edit...interesting fact, you replied 2 minutes after me...so...

 

[caLLous]

I'm thankful that we (the Scots) have a plan B.

The UK has a plan B (if walking away in a strop if they don't get their way can be called a plan). It's just a laughably bad plan B.

 

[Scouse]

Just an observation. You looked keen is all.

Anyway. It's not substantively different from Brexit. You've posted your anger around the Scottish Nationalist's repeated demands for referenda until they get the answer they want and have had repeated goes at "remoaners" for wanting another vote - but it doesn't seem to dawn on you that Brexiteers never shut the fuck up throughout the entirety of Blighty being in the EU about how they want to leave.

Bit of a double-standard there. Some might say hypocricy. Especially since Brexit is a Nationalist movement and you're fine with that but seem to be angry that the Scottish only want what Britain got - and via the same methodology.

 

[DaGaffer]

And if it fails again I imagine it will be no 3 in a couple of years.

I do wish the pinch faced hobbit would bugger off and do something useful.

Also, not all of Scotland voted remain, would she allow parts to stay in the UK? The Isles for example.

Nationalistic nonsense.

And not all of England voted leave. You can't have it both ways. The UK is not a unitary country, so the clear breakdown on nationalistic lines is inevitable.

I honestly think the EU would fall over themselves to give Scotland (and NI) a fast track EU membership and the most sweetheart of sweetheart deals they could afford just to say "fuck you" to the English. I would.

Scotland, Wales, NI and the Republic should federate. 15m population and better educated than the English. Tunnels from Antrim to Dumfries and Dublin to Anglesey.

 

[Raven]

They are two very different things.

I have and do say that the result should be respected, as should the indi-ref two years ago. She is on very shaky ground if she plans on using Brexit as the reason, like I said, geographically large areas also voted out, what is her plan for them? Can they remain in the UK?

Most of her original reasons for the original indi-ref have turned out to be bollocks, the rainbow spewing golden cars crashed into the central reservation at high speed (Oil) so where does she think future money is going to come from? Whiskey sales and tourism?

Edit, also, what are you on about "Scotland want what Britain got" Scotland don't want out of the UK, as per the last (2 years ago!) referendum. Please be posting a source for that claim.

Edit 2, Scotland leaving the UK means nothing to me, its not like it will cease to exist, I will still be able to visit it if I can be arsed.

 

[old.user4556]

Still mobile - but their financial figures will need to stack up for this to be viable. Oil is now £LOL compared to the original white paper, so I'm interested to see how they sell that one. That said, I'm personally happier to pay more tax to plug the hole - I just can't take any more Westminster.

 

[Wij]

If only that Dagger from Sands of Time was real with a 2 year capacity.

 

[fettoken]

Is Braveheart still applicable when relating to current time events?

 

[ECA]

I don't really see this one going any better than the last one.
Oil prices have tanked and a big part of their argument was financial independence and tax revenue generated by that high oil price.
If scotland had gone for indyref last time they would've gone broke almost immediately.

 

[Bodhi]

Even dafter idea than last time imo, but it keeps the attention off the shocking job Krankie and her mates are doing of running the country (her approval ratings are below Ruth Davidson's now) so looks like we're going again.

Quite intrigued to see how they think they're going to rejoin the EU when Spain have a similar movement in Catalunya they want to discourage, but she seems to spend her life in la la land, so she probably isn't concerned about such practicalities.

Good to see she's ignoring the people in Scotland who voted Leave - impressive considering there's more of them than who voted for her party in the last GE....

 

[Scouse]

Interesting that the Nationalist Brexiters really do hate the Nationalist Scots, despite them being most similar in outlook because of their penchant for bowing to Nationalism and all it's idiocy.

But hey-ho. Not like Brexit was ever going to have knock-on effects eh?

 

[old.user4556]

I don't really see this one going any better than the last one.

Why not? Last time the threats were "leave U.K. then leave EU" and ended up leaving the EU anyway.

Oil prices have tanked and a big part of their argument was financial independence and tax revenue generated by that high oil price. If scotland had gone for indyref last time they would've gone broke almost immediately.

Agree that the oil price would have been quite a serious issue, but the recovery from which may have regenerated Scotland and adjusted our current over-reliance on it. Aberdeen was needing a shake up of its glutoness, greedy attitude anyway. Iceland, whilst not quite the same, did remarkably well after going to the wall.

 

[Job]

I'm torn on this one, Scotland leaving would be a disaster for England, but I can't deny the urge for freedom, the problem is they can't just go alone and either need us or the EU..better the devil you know.
At least the UK actually cares about Scotland in a not so obvious way, just a bit more land to the EU

 

[Moriath]

I'm torn on this one, Scotland leaving would be a disaster for England, but I can't deny the urge for freedom, the problem is they can't just go alone and either need us or the EU..better the devil you know.
At least the UK actually cares about Scotland in a not so obvious way, just a bit more land to the EU

Well it wouldnt be that much of a disaster. The amount we give them each year could be saved. And probably not put into hospitals

Apart from the oil wealth. There isnt much the uk wouldnt get over if they left.

However you would have to sort out all border checks etc. And the average time to get into the eu is about seven years. So even if they would it will take them nearly a decade on their own before being accepted.

And @Scouse its a little different than brexit. As scotland has been constitutionally bound to the rest of us for centuries. Its not just an economic club that got out of control like the eu is.

Everything changes all the time though does this mean there will be a referendum for rejoining if domething changes when they are split?

Having a vote every now and then to see if its the will of the people. But you are polling the same populous as you did two years ago or when ever it was. At least

 

[Bodhi]

Interesting that the Nationalist Brexiters really do hate the Nationalist Scots, despite them being most similar in outlook because of their penchant for bowing to Nationalism and all it's idiocy.

But hey-ho. Not like Brexit was ever going to have knock-on effects eh?

Probably becuase there are enough differences to make it possible to back one and oppose the other.

 

[Scouse]

Probably becuase there are enough differences to make it possible to back one and oppose the other.

That argument doesn't weigh up for me. I don't buy it.

Boiled down, the differences are slight. I just see Brexit Blinkers being put back on and selective hypocrisy.

 

[Bodhi]

For me the biggest difference is that the UK is a net contributor to the EU, whereas Scotland is heavily subsidised by the rest of the UK. If I thought Scotland had a bright future outside the UK I'd be all for it, but remembering Scottish history classes, and the mess we were in before we joined in the first place, it'll be a tough sell.

Whereas the UK being outside of the EU I think will be just fine.

I do wonder if Wee Jimmie Krankie will be as keen for another referndum if Le Pen and Wilders get in?

 

[Moriath]

That argument doesn't weigh up for me. I don't buy it.

Boiled down, the differences are slight. I just see Brexit Blinkers being put back on and selective hypocrisy.

But we have had a vote. Very short time ago. Its like lets keep going back till we get the answer we want. Oh and quick before the next general election were we might not have the mandate we currently think we do.

 

[old.user4556]

Scotland is heavily subsidised by the rest of the UK

In what way? Spending per head? How are you measuring that? 'heavily subsidised' is a bit hyperbolic.

 

[Embattle]

The Scottish economy has strengths – but could it make a success of independence? | Larry Elliott

 

[Raven]

Hypocrisy would be saying people or organisations should do one thing and then doing exactly what you say they shouldn't do.

 

[Moriath]

In what way? Spending per head? How are you measuring that? 'heavily subsidised' is a bit hyperbolic.

Scotland runs up £15bn deficit twice size of UK's

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14701901.UK_subsidy_to_Scotland_soars_after_oil_price_slump/

 

[Job]

Of course people will talk down Scotland, but they do the exact same thing about the UK and in reality, no one knows, shit happens, economies are beyond forecasting, Scotland wasn't born yesterday and they have a world reputation that many countries would love to have.
I just don't want them to leave, for starters they have just about all the UK's wilderness, which is as important as the air we breathe.

 

[Bodhi]

In what way? Spending per head? How are you measuring that? 'heavily subsidised' is a bit hyperbolic.

UK subsidy to Scotland soars after oil price slump

Don't get me wrong if Scotland could make a go of it I'd be fully behind it, but those numbers worry me far too much to even consider it tbh.

 

[DaGaffer]

The Scottish economy has strengths – but could it make a success of independence? | Larry Elliott

Hmmm,

Scotland’s first minister will also argue that her plan involves the best of all worlds: retaining free and unhindered access to the rest of the UK while also remaining part of the EU single market. US banks looking for a new home after Brexit might find Edinburgh attractive.

I haven't seen this mentioned elsewhere but if this is Sturgeon's plan, it's nonsense; if Scotland stays in the EU it couldn't have unfettered access to the post-Brexit UK, unless the UK had done such a deal with the rest of the EU, so the only competitive advantage would be geographical,which isn't that big a deal. Scotland can't be in the EU and have a standalone deal with the UK.

The article goes on to suggest it could have its own currency; not if it wants to be in the EU it can't, its the Euro or nothing for new accession states (and unlike last time there's no way Scotland could claim EU membership off the back of the UK; it was bullshit then, it would be impossible now).

Not a particularly well researched article...

 

[BloodOmen]

Pretty sure the EU has already slapped Scotland down over the idea of rejoining/remaining in the EU (I could be wrong) pretty sure the EU basically said "No, that's not how it works." the last time Sturgeon was on about it. I wouldn't blame Scotland though tbh, if I had the money and was a mental wreck I'd leave the UK tomorrow.

 

[Tom]

I wonder if this announcement has pushed the UK government's article 50 announcement back. I was set to work this week on that announcement, but apparently 10 Downing St have just told the media it's not happening yet.

 

[Job]

She's correct to say stop judging them on a bad year, Scotland has yet to be tested and while under the UK umbrella there might be a tendency to not to push the boat out, I'm sure they would do fine, just like I'm sure the UK will do ok outside the EU, half the interesting things in the world were invented in Scotland.