Politics Scottish Independance.....Thoughts?

[Scouse]

So the Welfare State (rather than Poor Law), free at the point of use medical treatment, state pensions, paid sick leave, paid maternity/paternity leave, anti-discrimination laws, mandatory education, no more child labour....these don't count?

Was a typo - meant to say 80's but finger slipped on the keypad and I didn't read my post before I clicked reply

Yes, post-war welfare state reforms were hugely important (and deserved). But those things have been on the wane for 30 odd years and the inequalities of wealth, the lack of a proper democracy, the increasing power of the hugely wealthy are manifesting themselves in a society that's lurching to the extreme right - and the party of the workers, Labour, is basically almost where the tories were at.

Despite early promise laissez faire capitalism has been an abject failure for most. But it doesn't matter. The rich are sitting pretty in their socialist nirvana where their money and lifestyle is protected from losses by the lower rungs of society who are left to the ravages of the market. The financial fiasco of the last decade has shown the true colours of our masters.

Yeah, it's working out OK for me financially (though the outlook is far from rosy) - but for most people it just ain't. Scotland has a chance to change that political conversation - which could easily have knock-on positives for us south of the border.

Shame it doesn't look like they're going to take it

 

[Raven]

"Wah wah wah bullshit!" says the guy who's company stands to lose out *massively* as Scotland stands to take all their profits right off them and put them into social projects instead...

I mean, seriously, Blood??! Really?

wow. you actually think he wont profit either way?

For someone who thinks they know it all, you really are naive.

Existing contracts will remain existing contracts...unless you are suggesting Scotland not only renege on existing debts but also existing contracts...No, you can't be, can you?

Scottish/English/British/whatever oil is owned by multinationals, they will profit, not the people of Britain, Scotland or England. BP as a company couldn't give a tupenny fuck who "owns" the oil fields.

 

[Scouse]

For someone who thinks they know it all, you really are naive.......

Cough

For someone who likes to try to tell "know-it-all"-me that I'm stupid you think you'd do a better job of attempting to be right.

Tax changes are up for grabs in an independent Scotland. They choose what to change, and the oil companies can whistle - low profit is better than no profit...

 

[Tuthmes]

Scottish/English/British/whatever oil is owned by multinationals, they will profit, not the people of Britain, Scotland or England. BP as a company couldn't give a tupenny fuck who "owns" the oil fields.

Good point.

 

[Scouse]

Good point.

Rubbish and utterly incorrect and pointless point.

 

[Tuthmes]

Rubbish and utterly incorrect and pointless point.

Explain.

 

[Scouse]

Explain.

Look at the post above yours that I quoted and figure it out?

 

[Tuthmes]

Look at the post above yours that I quoted and figure it out?

You mean the; "Rubbish and utterly incorrect and pointless point."?

If that is all you have to say, then there isn't much besides just rhetoric. Try explaining why Raven's point is all of that. Because his point of multinationals stands, until you prove otherwise.

 

[Tuthmes]

If you mean the tax changes you mentioned a post before that, then all I can point at is the quote you quoted of Raven in that exact post. You are naive...

 

[old.user4556]

OMFG

 

[old.user4556]

There is no facepalm big enough for this one.

Kevin Bridges said this as a joke, now the Daily Fail have turned it into a story.

 

[DaGaffer]

Cough

For someone who likes to try to tell "know-it-all"-me that I'm stupid you think you'd do a better job of attempting to be right.

Tax changes are up for grabs in an independent Scotland. They choose what to change, and the oil companies can whistle - low profit is better than no profit...

Tax changes won't happen. Even a 1% rise in taxes could dent the business case for exploiting marginal fields. It would make money for Scotland in the short-term but harm any future exploration. A 1% difference in tax is the difference between the oil companies deciding to work in Aberdeen or Azerbaijan.

 

[Scouse]

Tax changes won't happen. Even a 1% rise in taxes could dent the business case for exploiting marginal fields. It would make money for Scotland in the short-term but harm any future exploration. A 1% difference in tax is the difference between the oil companies deciding to work in Aberdeen or Azerbaijan.

Disagree. Shale is viable because of the dwindling reserves. Traditional methods of extraction are still cheaper...

 

[DaGaffer]

Disagree. Shale is viable because of the dwindling reserves. Traditional methods of extraction are still cheaper...

Which is why I said they would be OK short-term. To exploit the new fields that Salmond is banking on will cost at least as much as fracking, probably more.

 

[Gwadien]

Sorry, you cannot use this word anymore

Thank you.



View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7KcpgQKo2I

 

[Job]

How does it all pan out with passports?
Do you automatically get one because you were born there or because you're living there now.
Do people born in Scotland but living in England just become English overnight.
Its a freakin minefield co they will have a border...useful for keeping the million immigrants they want... up in Scotland.

 

[old.user4556]

Google for it.

 

[Job]

But that doesn't give me the Front room spicing on top of my meatballs

OK checked...everyone gets a Sottish passport..any Scot in the world or anyone who has seen braveheart or has ginger hair.

 

[TdC]

Sweet, I can finally get a proper passport!

 

[Raven]

I'll only get one if they issue a collectors edition, otherwise not interested.

 

[Tom]

inequalities of wealth, the lack of a proper democracy, the increasing power of the hugely wealthy are manifesting themselves in a society that's lurching to the extreme right - and the party of the workers, Labour, is basically almost where the tories were at.

Despite early promise laissez faire capitalism has been an abject failure for most. But it doesn't matter. The rich are sitting pretty in their socialist nirvana where their money and lifestyle is protected from losses by the lower rungs of society who are left to the ravages of the market. The financial fiasco of the last decade has shown the true colours of our masters.

Yeah, it's working out OK for me financially (though the outlook is far from rosy) - but for most people it just ain't. Scotland has a chance to change that political conversation - which could easily have knock-on positives for us south of the border.

Shame it doesn't look like they're going to take it

You could have written this 50 years ago and it'd still have rung true.

The fact is, despite all the complaining, for the poor, matters have improved significantly over the last 100 years. I'm currently writing an article on baby farming, a method by which mothers could dispose of unwanted children. The UK is a very, very different place to what it once was.

 

[Job]

So he wants his share of the armed forces...if he doesn't accept the debt I don't see how he could claim any UK assets.

 

[BloodOmen]

 

[old.user4556]

Again, a Kevin Bridges joke.

 

[Ormorof]

RBS non government shareholders apparently a bit pissed at the treasury leak, they released a statement saying that the comment was out of context and the only thing they would be moving would be where the HQ is registered, no jobs or branches would be at risk

 

[old.user4556]

You can now see why the BBC and the No campaign are under a lot of pressure for their blatant bollocks. Westminster are scraping around to cook up any old shite to get more people to vote No. It's getting tiresome. However, Yes are equally guilty with the bollocks, at least theirs are more positive compared to the negative lies from No. As I said above, the whole referendum has been a sea of lies to swing middle ground voters either way.

Better Together are the harbingers of doom, vote Yes and Scotland will go down the pan - there'll be no jobs, no NHS, no pound, no money, no pensions, no army, terrorism will increase, food prices will go up, the cost of living will go through the roof, there will be a famine, pestilence and every company with a Scottish presence will move to England. Everything you ever loved will disappear overnight, and it's simply not true. My personal favourite lately was the Deutsche Bank bloke saying we were in for another 1930's style recession when he never even saw the 2008 global downturn coming.

 

[Ormorof]

You can now see why the BBC and the No campaign are under a lot of pressure for their blatant bollocks. Westminster are scraping around to cook up any old shite to get more people to vote No. It's getting tiresome. However, Yes are equally guilty with the bollocks, at least theirs are more positive compared to the negative lies from No. As I said above, the whole referendum has been a sea of lies to swing middle ground voters either way.

Better Together are the harbingers of doom, vote Yes and Scotland will go down the pan - there'll be no jobs, no NHS, no pound, no money, no pensions, no army, terrorism will increase, food prices will go up, the cost of living will go through the roof, there will be a famine, pestilence and every company with a Scottish presence will move to England. Everything you ever loved will disappear overnight, and it's simply not true. My personal favourite lately was the Deutsche Bank bloke saying we were in for another 1930's style recession when he never even saw the 2008 global downturn coming.

do Deutsche even operate in Scotland?

 

[old.user4556]

Glasgow and Edinburgh.

 

[DaGaffer]

You can now see why the BBC and the No campaign are under a lot of pressure for their blatant bollocks. Westminster are scraping around to cook up any old shite to get more people to vote No. It's getting tiresome. However, Yes are equally guilty with the bollocks, at least theirs are more positive compared to the negative lies from No. As I said above, the whole referendum has been a sea of lies to swing middle ground voters either way.

Better Together are the harbingers of doom, vote Yes and Scotland will go down the pan - there'll be no jobs, no NHS, no pound, no money, no pensions, no army, terrorism will increase, food prices will go up, the cost of living will go through the roof, there will be a famine, pestilence and every company with a Scottish presence will move to England. Everything you ever loved will disappear overnight, and it's simply not true. My personal favourite lately was the Deutsche Bank bloke saying we were in for another 1930's style recession when he never even saw the 2008 global downturn coming.

Why is negative bullshit any less valid than positive bullshit? If anything the positive stuff is worse because its a more insidious lie.

 

[Gwadien]

It's politics man, both sides spout shit desperately, thing is, it seems the Yes Campaign is a lot more vocal in Scotland, so they're covering up their shit, with the No campaigns shit, which seems to be working beautifully.

I just hope people don't vote because of one campaign managing to lie more convincingly than the other

EDIT:- I know this may seem 'well obviously' all politics is based upon lies and trying to deceive better than the other party, but this isn't a general election, this is a tiny bit more important.

Would've been so much better if a completely neutral establishment came in and presented the facts.