SB rant again, thx buffbots.

[Carlos Bananos]

Originally posted by marathor


What is suprising is that while my 2h PA cap is 977 my dualwield cap is 699 against virtually any resist my 2h PAs scale 250-300 while dualwielding scales 200-250. I use 99qua arc Greatsword (5,4dly)

There must be somthing wrong there, i have 34 CS and my PA cap is mid 900s... (949 i think)

try capping your +cs (+11 is max) as each point increases your cap by 9 damage.

also, 250-300 is VERY low for a CB using a 2h.

im a 5spec, unbuffed with 34 CS, i can 1shot casters enough to be confident about it, and PA on most classes is far higher than that, even plate wearing ppl i hit for at least 400 with a 2h.

when buffed, i count the amount of times i hit my cap, 1 shotting, and 2 shotting nearly any class i can get a reliable PA+CD on (if that doesn't do it, them being stund for 6s is the end of it for em ) ;x

as i said, maximise your +cs, drop your +qui as much as u can for bigger PAs (not good for long term melee though)


You should be hitting far harder than that, even if your unbuffed all the time.

 

[fixer_]

Nerf instastun. Un-nerf LA

just a thought ofc

 

[Runolaz]

Hmm again I find myself posing after running through the numbers. I was thinking of what Pin mention about the style dmg and Axe/SW/LA/CS, he was wondering why noone used Hamstring, naurally this is because of Stun from Frosty Gaze, but also because of dmg. If you take a closer look on the styles I did on Lesbos you will see the difference and the explenation is IMHO very simple.

LA Taunt Snowbline does ~ 127+ styledmg.
Axe Taunt Plague does ~ 66+ styledmg.

At least to me this make sence, because if you spec 2 line you should do more dmg. From the logs I have seen from Pendragon LA styles like DF does the same amount of dmg that Havoc does today. Some will then say that this is ok, because Havoc is positional. The only difference is that you need way more specpoint to go for DF than Havoc, thus it should do more dmg. If we take a look at Snowblind vs DF you will see that DF does rougly 20% more styledmg. So we will get the following

DF = Havoc = ~ 81+ styledmg/1.2 = ~ 68+ styledmg on Snowblind in 1.62. With these numbers we can comepare Axe/LA style that both are taunt. In 1.62 Snowblind styledmg will be ~ to Plague styledmg even though you have to spec two lines to get LA. In addotion you don't hit with your mainhand for max on LA, meaning that basedmg using a single Axe vs Axe/LA is ~ the same. Only difference that I can see is the haste, but if you reduce the huge end use on LA styles there is actually no point for SB/Zerkers to get LA. From what I have seen a lvl 50 Warrior using 1H will do some 300-350 dmg when fully buffed, a Zerker having to spec two lines should IMHO do 450-500. A Friar easily popps 400+ me.,,,not to mention a buffed Spero

The Waterman and Wyrd LA analysis are IMHO very incomplete. There are a lot of factor that that are not addressed at all. It's easiest to do a test like this if you always assume a condition exists. What happends to the document when you miss/evade, or even better a debuffed SB vs a debuffed INF/NS.

The problem is that in the Waterman/Wyrd analysis favors CD/DW greatly because it shows their base damage being the same. If you assume they don't always hit, or only hit half the time, or any less then 100% (which is quite obviously more likely) then there exists a large disparity between LA and CD/DW, skewed in FAVOR of CD/DW. This means the larger growth rates in LA are actually required to make up lost damage.

Another factor is weaponskill that is not address when comparing the assassins of the 3 realms. The higher your weaponskill (which is derived from weapon spec, stats, and modified by debuffs) the less you miss. In other words, you're landing more hits so you're doing more damage. If you take a good look at the logs from fighting Pin/Ochan you will also see that the high weaponspec also makes it harder to evade them. I have Axe 46+7 (gimped as Pin said, but w8 to max it anyday now ) = 53 numbers that you often see a RR6+ 5-spec SB run arround with, only difference is that I have high LA, thus hit harder. As a sidenote I'm convinced that as a SB you migth as well pick Dodger III, cuz high weaponspec means you don't have a 50% chance to evade lol.

Infiltrators have no problem getting their weaponspecs to 50. In fact I don't think there is a single INF out there that does not have 50 weaponspec. I've seen some Inf's say they sacrifice to get that, but reading stuff like that I'm afraid my boss is gonna popp into my office and see what I'm actually doing lol. Nightshades will claim they don't, but they too have the ability to get to 50 weapon spec.

In summary, I do not think the LA changes are as cut and dry as Wyrd's and Waterman's analysis seem to indicate. Assassin balance is much more complicated then it would appear, and there are other balancing factors. For assassins you also have to take a look at the styles, and IMHO a stun style after evade (Dragonfang/Diamondback) is better than any higher dmgoutput that LA has over CD/DW. What about debuff on Thrust vs Slash...not mentioned at all. If these LA changes go through, then there is no doubt that the Shadowblades will be at a great disadvantage towards any other stealthers. You can forget agout SB speccing SZ. I think that you still will find some 5-Spec arround though, using Comeback - Frosty Gaze, but with CS/AXE/SW styles instead of DF. I see no wrong in this other, than much lower weaponspec than a INF/NS only to get a Stun style that is crap compared to Dragonfang/Diamondback.

Edit: About using a 2H = 125% more dmg, but you only land one poison and swing spd is much slower. 2 weapons >> 2H when faced with INF/NS

The really fun part is that when LA is nerfed to oblivion you still see Zerker dealing 1000+ dmg with 2H. The problem with LA is not the dmgoutput on a Zerker, but the combined effects of END/LA/CRIT/HAMSTER/QUI. I think the whole system is wrong then a ligthtank in studded armour avoids QUI like a plague. I think if Mythic had fixed QUI and reduced Crit from 1-99 -> 1-50 and added a small 10% redused styledmg then then I think LA would be as were it should be. Looking at my log on Lesbos that woul bring Snowblind down to 115+ Styledmg vs Axe Taunt on +66.

 

[salamurhaaja]

After checking the the combat logs, it just confirmed how overpowered dragonfang is.

After evading last attack stunning your opponent it lets you pull CS-chain whitout any problems. You can't do that whit SB, 'cos you don't have enough spec-points to get LA 39 and CS 44 and our stun attack is in chain, you need to evade 2 attacks in a row, which is extremely rare.

Whereas SB criticblade don't have stun-attack at all and we are forced to attack only whit our CS-line styles.
So give us baseline evade-stun in base-style line or even thrust-line and I'm ok

 

[Aussie-]

oh stfu noob

 

[salamurhaaja]

Originally posted by Aussie-
oh stfu noob

Always pleasure to see mature comments :great:

 

[Aussie-]

Originally posted by Runolaz

All is unbuffed

[22:00:56] You perform your Doublefrost perfectly. (+179)
[22:00:56] You attack Lesbos with your axe and hit for 292 (-12) damage!

grats

 

[Runolaz]

STFU Aussie and spam another post.

Lesbos is 14% slash.

It is still

Doublefrost ~ 153+ styledmg vs Havoc ~ 81+ styledmg. I think the 44LA I have should be worth more dmg.

 

[Aussie-]

how original :bore:

 

[old.LandShark]

Originally posted by salamurhaaja
After checking the the combat logs, it just confirmed how overpowered dragonfang is.

After evading last attack stunning your opponent it lets you pull CS-chain whitout any problems. You can't do that whit SB, 'cos you don't have enough spec-points to get LA 39 and CS 44 and our stun attack is in chain, you need to evade 2 attacks in a row, which is extremely rare.

Whereas SB criticblade don't have stun-attack at all and we are forced to attack only whit our CS-line styles.
So give us baseline evade-stun in base-style line or even thrust-line and I'm ok

doublefrost > hamstring........
failing that run through and do snowsquall?

 

[Runolaz]

Originally posted by old.LandShark
doublefrost > hamstring........
failing that run through and do snowsquall?

I think it is wrong to compare CS vs LA styles. IF you spec CS you spec for the huge opener PA/BSII and the followup styles. If you take a closer look you will probably find out that LA is ~x2 styledmg of Axe and CS is ~x1.5 styledmg of Axe (44Axe/44LA vs 44Axe/44CS). LA and CD/DW works differenlty and there are few if any INF/NS that has CS10 to become what a SZ is. I have bumped into Melee Rangers that hit like a truck, and at least to me a Bladmaster is way harder to take than a Polearm.

Running thrugh and do Snowsquall will often result in failure, and before you know it your OOE.

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by Runolaz

LA Taunt Snowbline does ~ 127+ styledmg.
Axe Taunt Plague does ~ 66+ styledmg.

At least to me this make sence, because if you spec 2 line you should do more dmg.

If you want to look at it this way, then...

We have to spec 2 lines for damage on DW styles, spending more points to be able to use styles which do equal or less damage than base styles.

We (both) have to spec 2 lines for damage on CS styles, spending more points to be able to use styles which do ~20% more damage than equivalent base styles (ignoring from-stealth moves as there are no equivalents).

You have to spec 2 lines for damage on LA styles, spending more points to be able to use styles which do ~100% more damage than base styles.


This is the difference.

Originally posted by Runolaz

From the logs I have seen from Pendragon LA styles like DF does the same amount of dmg that Havoc does today. Some will then say that this is ok, because Havoc is positional. The only difference is that you need way more specpoint to go for DF than Havoc, thus it should do more dmg.

Look at my unbuffed log of Garotte->Achilles vs. Pierce/Basiliskfang.

Garotte is doing very similar damage to Pierce and Basiliskfang, but Garotte is anytime, Pierce/Basilisk are positional. Achilles does 10-20% higher, but that is a chain.

The only difference is that you need way more specpoint to go for Garotte/Achilles than Pierce/Basilisk, thus is should do more dmg?

Originally posted by Runolaz

Another factor is weaponskill that is not address when comparing the assassins of the 3 realms. The higher your weaponskill (which is derived from weapon spec, stats, and modified by debuffs) the less you miss. In other words, you're landing more hits so you're doing more damage. If you take a good look at the logs from fighting Pin/Ochan you will also see that the high weaponspec also makes it harder to evade them. I have Axe 46+7 (gimped as Pin said, but w8 to max it anyday now ) = 53 numbers that you often see a RR6+ 5-spec SB run arround with, only difference is that I have high LA, thus hit harder. As a sidenote I'm convinced that as a SB you migth as well pick Dodger III, cuz high weaponspec means you don't have a 50% chance to evade lol.

Yes, weaponskill makes a huge difference. You'll find that 8Axe (or whatever you are from cap) will increase it by over 60 points when buffed (over 5%). It will also reduce the effect of a debuff on your weaponskill - and it's really debuffs that kill a SB.


As for Dodger3. Well, I'm believe that the cap is applied before comparison to opponent's weaponskill, so unless you are fighting a Champion, the extra dodger wouldn't do much.

Originally posted by Runolaz
Infiltrators have no problem getting their weaponspecs to 50. In fact I don't think there is a single INF out there that does not have 50 weaponspec. I've seen some Inf's say they sacrifice to get that, but reading stuff like that I'm afraid my boss is gonna popp into my office and see what I'm actually doing lol. Nightshades will claim they don't, but they too have the ability to get to 50 weapon spec.

Yes, mostly we spec to 50. But it's not just about speccing to 50, it's also bonuses from items. I've got 68Thrust, so I ought to be hitting hard and I ought to be getting past defenses a good proportion of the time.

If you were equal RR with equal items you'd have 64Axe, which again would hit hard and get past evades much better.



Yes, you're hurt more by str debuffs (sidenote: visit an alchemist, we're killed by dex/qui debuffs) than a Thrust Inf.

Yes, it'll be a pain to be without a melee stun, but Slash Infs don't have one either.

Originally posted by Runolaz

The really fun part is that when LA is nerfed to oblivion you still see Zerker dealing 1000+ dmg with 2H. The problem with LA is not the dmgoutput on a Zerker, but the combined effects of END/LA/CRIT/HAMSTER/QUI.

The difference there is clear. 1000+ damage with a 2H vs 1000+ damage with LA?

2H is a ~5.5spd delay, swinging at ~5.5spd with 50Qui.
Using LA a Zerk does same damage at ~3.3spd with 50Qui.


If the LA nerf goes in at the current levels, the damage output over time of a Zerker using a 2H or a Zerker using LA will be very similar. 2H will frontload more, that's all.

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by Runolaz
I think it is wrong to compare CS vs LA styles. IF you spec CS you spec for the huge opener PA/BSII and the followup styles.

This is not the reason I specced CS (well, not after I learnt about the class at least).

I specced CS to 44 and capped out +CS to be able to do the most damage I could both in front-loading with a PA chain and during melee with a Hamstring chain, but still for my anytime styles I'll use crappy baseline Thrust styles. For positionals I'll use crappy baseline Thrust styles.


If the double style bonus on LA styles is heavily reduced you'll be in a similar position that in certain situations you'll be best using LA styles and others you'll be best using baselines.



In my opinion, other balance issues should be looked at separately to LA balance as this is not just an assassin war to look at, this is LA balance vs all other style lines on all other classes. For example, an Armsman doesn't care that your weaponskill is destroyed by a str/con debuff.


Yes, Dragonfang could be considered overpowered in the hands of an Infiltrator (Scouts, Minstrels, Mercs and Reavers could also use the style), but I don't need Dragonfang to kill most SBs, the debuff will do that. And in actual fact, once every 30 minutes against any buffed RR2+ SB, landing DF will likely get me killed.

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by salamurhaaja
You can't do that whit SB, 'cos you don't have enough spec-points to get LA 39 and CS 44 and our stun attack is in chain, you need to evade 2 attacks in a row, which is extremely rare.

Whereas SB criticblade don't have stun-attack at all and we are forced to attack only whit our CS-line styles.
So give us baseline evade-stun in base-style line or even thrust-line and I'm ok

You don't need to evade 2 in a row, you just need to land 2 in a row, and in normal melee using tranq->wyvern I need to land 2 in a row to see any bonus damage at all.


Yes, a Dragonfang that sticks will mean 800 damage coming your way unbuffed vs unbuffed. Or 1200 buffed vs buffed. But well, there's 2 main ways to get round it... Purge, or advanced BaF code and I know you have both.

 

[salamurhaaja]

Originally posted by Pin
You don't need to evade 2 in a row, you just need to land 2 in a row, and in normal melee using tranq->wyvern I need to land 2 in a row to see any bonus damage at all.

I meant performing CS-chain after stun attack.
SBs can't do hamstring -> leaper -> rib sep after frosty, unless you evade 2 times a row.

Unlike inf can 'cos when you land dragonfang it means that you have evaded last attack and can perform CS-chain which starts from evade.

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by salamurhaaja
I meant performing CS-chain after stun attack.
SBs can't do hamstring -> leaper -> rib sep after frosty, unless you evade 2 times a row.

Unlike inf can 'cos when you land dragonfang it means that you have evaded last attack and can perform CS-chain which starts from evade.

Okay..... But you just land SS->IB during the stun, which is more damaging than my Hamstring chain. It's not just a question of being able to repeat the same reactionaries.

 

[bracken_woodman]

The Irony...

of a thread by an honourable non-buffbott solo stealther bemoaning the demise of his class lasts for over 11 pages. Why? Because it's taken over by buffbott users discussing their l33t skillz and tictakz.


(Ok so I didn't read the entire thread, but it's not too far off the truth )

 

[salamurhaaja]

Re: The Irony...

Originally posted by bracken_woodman
of a thread by an honourable non-buffbott solo stealther bemoaning the demise of his class lasts for over 11 pages. Why? Because it's taken over by buffbott users discussing their l33t skillz and tictakz.

Hehe, you are quite right...
Let's see how 1.62 ends up in U.S servers, but it's fun to speculate anyway.

 

[Runolaz]

Originally posted by Pin
If you want to look at it this way, then...

We have to spec 2 lines for damage on DW styles, spending more points to be able to use styles which do equal or less damage than base styles.We (both) have to spec 2 lines for damage on CS styles, spending more points to be able to use styles which do ~20% more damage than equivalent base styles (ignoring from-stealth moves as there are no equivalents).You have to spec 2 lines for damage on LA styles, spending more points to be able to use styles which do ~100% more damage than base styles. This is the difference.

There is a huge difference on how LA vs DW/CD works and comparing them is difficult. High spec LA is done for the styles and increased dmg. High spec DW/CD is based on how often your offhand will hit. The style you do with high DW/CD is irrelevant as dmg overtime is gained from offhand hitting as often as possible. I

Originally posted by Pin

Look at my unbuffed log of Garotte->Achilles vs. Pierce/Basiliskfang.

Garotte is doing very similar damage to Pierce and Basiliskfang, but Garotte is anytime, Pierce/Basilisk are positional. Achilles does 10-20% higher, but that is a chain.

The only difference is that you need way more specpoint to go for Garotte/Achilles than Pierce/Basilisk, thus is should do more dmg?

The unbuffed style dmg does not give a good picture and you know that. Debuffed the picture looks a lot different. You will see that I hit for less buffed with your lvl 47 Env than I do unbuffed with no debuff. Point is that SB cannot spec any weapon that is Str/Dex.

Originally posted by Pin

Yes, weaponskill makes a huge difference. You'll find that 8Axe (or whatever you are from cap) will increase it by over 60 points when buffed (over 5%). It will also reduce the effect of a debuff on your weaponskill - and it's really debuffs that kill a SB.

There is however one thing you forget, the equalence of your template on a SB is a 5-spec and not a SZ. A RR7 5-spec SB will usually have Axe39+16 / LA39+16 (at best) ~ will roughly do the same dmg as I do on you now, don't you think?? The vast majourity of SB's are 5-Spec and not SZ. If you take away 20% relic bounus and 30% less LA a 5-spec will be outpreformed by far from both INF/NS.

Originally posted by Pin

As for Dodger3. Well, I'm believe that the cap is applied before comparison to opponent's weaponskill, so unless you are fighting a Champion, the extra dodger wouldn't do much.

I read in grab bag that both weaponspec and nr. of ppl attack you determinds % of evade - so actually I think it does

Originally posted by Pin

Yes, mostly we spec to 50. But it's not just about speccing to 50, it's also bonuses from items. I've got 68Thrust, so I ought to be hitting hard and I ought to be getting past defenses a good proportion of the time.

I'm not complainting of your dmg. If you didn't have that pesky Dragonfang (I win button) the figths would have been much closer.

Originally posted by Pin

If you were equal RR with equal items you'd have 64Axe, which again would hit hard and get past evades much better.

Yes, I will have 64 Axe when I get the last 3 parts for my MP SC setup, but the fact still remains that I hit just as hard as any 5-spec SB RR7 that IMHO is equal to your set up. You even get to have higher PA/Weaponspec/better StunStyle.

Originally posted by Pin

Yes, you're hurt more by str debuffs (sidenote: visit an alchemist, we're killed by dex/qui debuffs) than a Thrust Inf.

I have an Alc...there is no dex/qui debuff for us :/

Originally posted by Pin

Yes, it'll be a pain to be without a melee stun, but Slash Infs don't have one either.

Aye, and figths with them are always much closer. With thrust INF's it is almost allways Dragonfang that decides the outcome of the figth.

 

[Treniel-]

cba to read threads but buffbots = lame, nuff said

 

[old.Nol]

ok people, lets get this back to calling each other names...all these quoted points are making us seem way too intellectual...

<inserts something about wrathofsnoron's gran>

 

[dakeyras]

Originally posted by Runolaz


I have an Alc...there is no dex/qui debuff for us :/

It is a charge.

Can't remember whether it is stable withering tincture or stable crippling tincture. Crippling I think. Will check the book when I get home.

 

[Runolaz]

Originally posted by dakeyras
It is a charge.

Can't remember whether it is stable withering tincture or stable crippling tincture. Crippling I think. Will check the book when I get home.

Stable Crippling Arcanium Tincture is the one you are thinking of. I was talking of a dex/qui poison.

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by Runolaz
There is a huge difference on how LA vs DW/CD works and comparing them is difficult. High spec LA is done for the styles and increased dmg. High spec DW/CD is based on how often your offhand will hit. The style you do with high DW/CD is irrelevant as dmg overtime is gained from offhand hitting as often as possible. I

Why is there a huge difference there? You spec LA to increase the damage on each hit, to get access to different styles and to get higher damage on those styles.

Why should it be that speccing DW/CD only gives 2 of those? (Remember that increasing chance to swing ~= increasing base damage per hit). And then, even if we get access to different styles we won't use them because they don't actually give us anything.

Originally posted by Runolaz

The unbuffed style dmg does not give a good picture and you know that. Debuffed the picture looks a lot different. You will see that I hit for less buffed with your lvl 47 Env than I do unbuffed with no debuff. Point is that SB cannot spec any weapon that is Str/Dex.

You do lower damage buffed and debuffed over unbuffed mainly because I'm also buffed with a 25% AF boost, not because your base damage is lower.

Originally posted by Runolaz

There is however one thing you forget, the equalence of your template on a SB is a 5-spec and not a SZ. A RR7 5-spec SB will usually have Axe39+16 / LA39+16 (at best) ~ will roughly do the same dmg as I do on you now, don't you think?? The vast majourity of SB's are 5-Spec and not SZ. If you take away 20% relic bounus and 30% less LA a 5-spec will be outpreformed by far from both INF/NS.

I've been specced 50, 44, 16 all the way to RR8. You can consider me more a CB spec. I haven't been RvR since I respecced to 29DW.


But yes, I agree that your damage is comparable to a typical 5-spec, but without PA.

As I said, I'm sorry Gedan/Jox didn't make it, as I know they hit much harder than you do... gimp

Originally posted by Runolaz

I read in grab bag that both weaponspec and nr. of ppl attack you determinds % of evade - so actually I think it does

Errr grab bag? k

number of people on you has no effect on evade %.
opponent's weaponskill does have an effect, but I believe it's factored after the 50% cap, (but not 100% sure).

Originally posted by Runolaz

I'm not complainting of your dmg. If you didn't have that pesky Dragonfang (I win button) the figths would have been much closer.

Yeah, but you'd still lose if I don't DF cos you're a gimp with +10 Int

Originally posted by Runolaz

I have an Alc...there is no dex/qui debuff for us :/

I meant charges. You can use one in every fight.

 

[Runolaz]

Originally posted by Pin

As I said, I'm sorry Gedan/Jox didn't make it, as I know they hit much harder than you do... gimp

LoL yes, I'm sry too, but thats the way it turned out, but as I said my dmg atm is what you get from a RR6-7 5-Spec. Jox hits harder than me...no doubt about it. Gedan has specced this and that, but he is not a SZ from what I know anymore.

...and btw a lvl 44 Shaman has the best AF boost...it's baseline

 

[Runolaz]

Originally posted by Pin

Errr grab bag? k

number of people on you has no effect on evade %.
opponent's weaponskill does have an effect, but I believe it's factored after the 50% cap, (but not 100% sure).

Q: If evade is capped at 50% chance to evade, and I have evade 7 and dodger 5, where do I stand without any buffs and capped stats? Do I have any use for the highest level of dodger? Is it possible to give a simple answer?

A: It isn't possible to give a simple answer. The formula includes such elements as your level, your target's level, your level of evade, your QUI, your DEX, your buffs to QUI and DEX, the number of people attacking you, your target's weapon level, your target's spec in the weapon he is wielding, the kind of attack (DW, range, etc), attack radius, angle of attack, the style you used most recently, target's offensive RA, debuffs, and a few others. (The type of weapon – large, 1H, etc – doesn’t matter.) So it's entirely situational.

Your base chance to evade at Evade 7 is 35% (5% per level). Dodger 5 (3% per level) adds another 15%. But that's just a BASE. Those percentages can be modified by all of the above. The cap is 50% - but after your base is modified, you might not be at 50.

So if you were fully buffed, fighting a lower level opponent who wasn't very skilled, had evade 7, and dodger 5, you would be over your cap for certain. Which element took you over your cap, I couldn't say. Could be a buff, could be dodger, could be the level and skill of your opponent.

But if you're fighting multiple attackers, or significantly higher level mobs, or someone your level who was buffed andspecced better than you are, or someone smacks you with a debuff, then you would still need dodger 5 to hit your cap. It might take you over, but you wouldn't reach the cap without it.

So you see, it's really up to you. Do you mostly RVR, or do PVE? Solo or group? Do you have friends that will keep you buffed all the time, or do you spend a lot of time without buffs? The decision is yours, and there is no real right or wrong answer.

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by Runolaz

...and btw a lvl 44 Shaman has the best AF boost...it's baseline

yes, a cleric has the same one. But a cleric also has a spec AF buff. 67 delve, raises for 67*1.25(spec)*1.1(leather)*1.03(MotA1) = 94 higher AF

 

[old.LandShark]

is that 1.25*1.03*1.27 on chain?
Hrm.
Might have to level my bot that one level higher, unless some kind of dodger cap comes into play

edit: dodgy, not dodger. Tsk.

 

[Cloak_]

Originally posted by salamurhaaja
Assassins can't really perf each other. You'll notice it if you play 50+ stealth assassin and meet another 50+ stealth assassin.
Only whit GREAT LUCK or opponent having bad stealth you can perf another assassin.

I perfed Remi the other day

Shame he ran used end crystal slapped on AP2 (i think) then proceeded to die just b4 his dot killed me

Like Sammy sed,, its just a game !!

Im not exactly a high rr NS and I do _ok_ lol

Still dunno how Sam hit me for 488 normal combat style uke:

Then took all my 1.2k hp is 4 styles uke:

Cause you aint overpowerd atm

Tell me this,, ur Rear Pos LA style is a stun right?

BSII + 2chain Rear Pos is overpowered atm imo.

Still being a NS i expect that if they hit me 1st im dead

 

[froler-mid]

Originally posted by Cloak_
I perfed Remi the other day

Shame he ran used end crystal slapped on AP2 (i think) then proceeded to die just b4 his dot killed me

hmmm...dont remember that one.

were u baffing or sum? - usually dont run from ns, PA or not


and no, infils dont get AP...we get some other crap ra's.