RvR Poll!

[vintervargen]

mids... dont fool yourselves, vote savages4president!1½

 

[viruz_bs]

Yep Yep , another whine post

 

[Belomar]

Originally posted by Xaldrick
Chanters would have so very little utility if you moved the heat debuff to enchantments. Would only be able to pb, and you could as well pick another mana eld instead.

QQ, dimwit, spirit cabalists have nothing except pet buffs in the specline with our resistance debuffs and we make do anyway. Moving the resistance debuffs from the enchanter mana line to the enchanments line would have been the fucking solution to everything instead of the heavy-handed debuff nerf coming in 1.65.

 

[hotrat]

Originally posted by Belomar
QQ, dimwit, spirit cabalists have nothing except pet buffs in the specline with our resistance debuffs and we make do anyway. Moving the resistance debuffs from the enchanter mana line to the enchanments line would have been the fucking solution to everything instead of the heavy-handed debuff nerf coming in 1.65.

I strongly agree. After running some groups with lots of sorcies and a spirit cabalist the debuffs are all you need in the line to make it strong.
Chanters have the nice debuffs which are the baseline damage for ALL the hib casters (not just 2 like in alb - sorc and caba) and yet they get a really strong pbae as well

Nothing wrong with hibs using a void eld if hib caster groups want to debuff ranged damage and with the additional bonus of being able to debuff pbae. However for some reasons hibs prefer to use chanters....

 

[kneckehexan]

Obviosly a majority of albs voted

 

[tuathra]

Originally posted by hotrat

Nothing wrong with hibs using a void eld if hib caster groups want to debuff ranged damage and with the additional bonus of being able to debuff pbae. However for some reasons hibs prefer to use chanters....

i may be reading this wrong, but are you trying to say that voidies can debuff heat aswell?...
if u did, well.. then you need to show me that debuff in void specline

2nd, voidies are more rare than chanters. And when u r running a caster group, you are likely to have atleast 1 chanter - and therefore also the debuff.

 

[hotrat]

Originally posted by tuathra
i may be reading this wrong, but are you trying to say that voidies can debuff heat aswell?...
if u did, well.. then you need to show me that debuff in void specline

2nd, voidies are more rare than chanters. And when u r running a caster group, you are likely to have atleast 1 chanter - and therefore also the debuff.

Voidie debuffs energy, the pbae damage type and the spec nuke that mana elds also get in the mana line. Hence not being able to debuff their own damage but only the damage of others, which is imo exactly how debuffs should work.

Instead mythic gave some classes the ability to debuff their own damage, then nerfed it totally the wrong way.

 

[Xaldrick]

savages > chanters
end of story

 

[Stallion-]

in a broad view yes, not always

 

[Stallion-]

b4 saying nerf debuffs you better damn give some alternative to the specs... just removing the debuff would make chanters _completly_ useless vs elds.. and with 0.1 utility value..

 

[Xaldrick]

precisely
The soulution is not to nerf chanters, but to rework alb caster spec lines

 

[Stallion-]

id say nerf the stun.. rework some kind of singel target cc... root/spd degree

 

[Belomar]

Resistance debuffs have been nerfed, and quite needlessly I would say. The only reason why they were nerfed in the first place was the prominence of mana chanters (and this was, as we all know, due to the fact that mana chanters form -- or used to form -- the backbone of Hib exping). A better solution instead of nerfing resistance debuffs across the board would have been to move the chanter resistance debuff spells to the Enchantments spec line, to mimic Cabalists, for instance. This would have meant that Chanters could either spec mana for PBAE, light for strong spec nukes, or enchantments for a strong pet and strong (but power-costly) base nukes. Before you whine, please observe that this is how things are with Cabalists at the moment.

That is all.

 

[Stallion-]

Lets compare cabas with chanters shall we..ill be looking at grouping capabilities. removed all the basic & useless shit to make it more easy overlooked. Look at the bottom if u cba to read all.. easy summary.

Chanters.
Light Base Line:
179 DD (Heat) 33 Pow
9 Sec Stun (Heat) 30 Pow

Light Spec Line:
(45 spec) 209 DD (Heat) 29 pow
(48 spec) Insta Attack Speed Debuff -19% 31 Pow
(41 spec) DPS Debuff 20% 26 Pow
(46 spec) Insta Attack Speed Debuff AE -18% 60 Pow

Mana Base Line:
-

Mana Spec Line:
(48 spec) PBAE 325 DEnergy) 31 Pow
(49 spec) Debuff Heat -50 25 Pow

Enchantment Base Line
Pets

Enchantment Spec Line:
-

Now to the Cabalist

Matter Base Line:
79 D x 4 DoT 28 Pow (Matter)
Insta Debuff Dex -46 Dex 22 Pow

Matter Spec Line:
(49 spec) DoT 89 D x 6 32 Pow (Matter)
(46 spec) DoT 83 D x 6 47 Pow (Matter) AE
(41 spec) Nearsight 65% 20 Pow

Body Base Line:
179 DD Lifedrain (60% Drain) 33 Pow (Body)
Debuff STR -56 30 Pow
Root 73 sec 25 Pow

Body Spec Line:
(45 spec) 174 DD Lifedrain (90% drain) 29 Pow
(47 spec) Attack Speed Degree Debuff -19%. 24 Pow
(3 spec) Singel Target disease 3 Pow (30 sec)
(46 spec) Life transfer 19 smth, 61 Pow.
(44 spec) Disease AE 180 sec 28 Pow

Spirit Base Line:
Pets


Spirit Spec Line:
The Debuffs
(46 spec) Debuff body (debuff your lifetap) -50 body 24 Pow
(23 spec) Snare 40% 14 Pow
(48 spec) Snare 40% 31 Pow AE

So lets look @ these different things.. A normal Chanter usaly specs 50 mana & 20 Light or 49 Mana & 22 Light

What we get that that actully is any use in rvr:
179 DD (Heat) 33 Pow + Heat Debuff -50 25 Pow. Without any MoM you cap at 538.. for 58 Pow first nuke, 33 for the following.
A 9 sec stun that is around 5 sec with resists, if you dont debuff wich costs about 83% more pow.. Nothing to talk about vs determination. We have the verry nice interrupting pets, but lets not overestimate these, verry easy to disable (cc). Pets etc get a better advantage in soloing, but lets look @ grp abilities. We also get asd debuff of -11%, 5-10% dps debuff. and a 10% ae asd debuff. I wouldnt count those asd/dps debuffs to serious yet, the ASD & DPS debuffs might come more handy in ToA. Atm their pretty much worthless except the dps debuff that interrupts. (resisted alot cuz its low level). That my view of a chanters capabilities. Lets say we move the debuffs to Enchantment spec line. Who specs for a pet buffs & debuff & nuke combo? Debuff & nuke combo drains 2x as much pow as any other nukers spec line nukes, but stil does 2x the dmg? Pow/DMG point? could be fun to test. Anyway lets see what we get if we spec enchantments. Would be around 45+ Mana & 25+ Light. (usless with low mana spec) Light raises the base nuke variance..
Stil got the base nuke, base stun, Abit higher asd&dps debuffs, the heat debuff will be same dmg & same pow drain, just without pbae. (wohooo).. A verry STRONG pet ^^. I wouldnt spec 100% light cuz of current state of resists & the fact that I like pbae. No1 gets a singel target nuker really.

Tbh I dont know how cabbies spec...but I guess 49 spirit & 24 Body.

Where you get the best grp abilities.. I think..
base lifedrain that u can debuff..= chanter heat/nuke combo.
Singel target root = chanter stun?
STR + Dex Debuff. = eld utility
You get the ASD debuff = chanter ASD debuff (both r useless atm anyway).
singel target/ae disease = eld utility
Transfer healt = nothing like that in hib.. dunno how useful it is. you tell me.
singel target base dot.
Pets..
singel/ae snare.
The debuffs.

So lets make a final compare..what the classes both have but the other one doesent.

Chanters:*************Cabalists
+9 sec stun************+73 sec root
+5-10% dps debuff******+str&dex debuff
+pbae****************+singel/ae disease
+ae asd debuff 10%*****+singel/ae snare
********************* +singel DoT

soooo lets say we move the debuff to enchantment what do enchanters spec for then? we just lose the pbae. now remove pbae from the list above and tell me what utilities chanters will have..compared to cabalists... look what a cabalist can do compared to a chanter... chanters get grps c0z their fast dmg.. do you know how much healing/dmg you prefent with snare/disease? Might be alot more then a chanters









While cabbys get..

 

[Belomar]

Originally posted by Stallion-
Body Base Line:
179 DD Lifedrain (60% Drain) 33 Pow (Body)

Yes, next patch (1.65) when resistance debuffs are also nerfed. It's 140 delve at the moment. So I guess you chanters have been able to play with self-debuffing a 179 delve nuke for plenty of time now whereas cabalists never got the chance.

Tbh I dont know how cabbies spec...but I guess 49 spirit & 24 Body.

47 spirit, 26 body here. Might go back to 46 spirit, 28 body for minimum body nuke variance in 1.65.

Transfer healt = nothing like that in hib.. dunno how useful it is. you tell me.

Not very useful since you lose health yourself, but it's better than nothing.

Anyway, your breakdown looks okay to me, except I wouldn't class the single-target DoT nor the ST/AoE snares as "benefits". Why would you DoT anyone if you can nuke em down in considerably faster time as a spirit Cabalist? Oh, and the snares are 40%, breakable by damage, and shares the same immunity as roots (forgot exactly the relationship here because I never use it in RvR).

 

[Stallion-]

a 40% snare + disease = a crippled tank/support.. verry long cc... id say thats a verry verry verry nice combo vs tank grps.. I wouldnt consider a cabby to be the main dmg dealer in alb grps... id say its one of the more important grp support chars even thou cloth wearer..

disease, snare wich must be usefull, debuffs for the sorc & yourself, interrupting pets, lifedrain wich u can debuff for sounds like one hell of a class to me. You must understand that a cabby has tripple or even more utility value... chanters deal dmg & interrupt period.

 

[hotrat]

Originally posted by Stallion-
Where you get the best grp abilities.. I think..
base lifedrain that u can debuff..= chanter heat/nuke combo.
Singel target root = chanter stun?
STR + Dex Debuff. = eld utility
You get the ASD debuff = chanter ASD debuff (both r useless atm anyway).
singel target/ae disease = eld utility
Transfer healt = nothing like that in hib.. dunno how useful it is. you tell me.
singel target base dot.
Pets..
singel/ae snare.
The debuffs.

So lets make a final compare..what the classes both have but the other one doesent.

Chanters:*************Cabalists
+9 sec stun************+73 sec root
+5-10% dps debuff******+str&dex debuff
+pbae****************+singel/ae disease
+ae asd debuff 10%*****+singel/ae snare
********************* +singel DoT

soooo lets say we move the debuff to enchantment what do enchanters spec for then? we just lose the pbae. now remove pbae from the list above and tell me what utilities chanters will have..compared to cabalists... look what a cabalist can do compared to a chanter... chanters get grps c0z their fast dmg.. do you know how much healing/dmg you prefent with snare/disease? Might be alot more then a chanters

dps debuff is >>>>> than str/dex debuff, dps debuff needs a FAT nerf its probably the most powerful thing on a chanter atm.

Stun is good against support and tanks, but because of det its reduced to support only. Root is only good against tanks, but because of det it only lasts about 5 seconds so imo stun > root.

Disease I will agree is very nice, but hardly as good as pbae especially considering elds have disease anyway.

Snare looks ok on paper, I haven't really seen it in rvr so I can't comment though.

DoT is absolute crap, especially on a cabalist spec'd spirit/body.

Chanter does get run speed as well, which effects pets even in combat, also the damage add can't be completely ignored, most hib groups run with at least 1 melee class.

Finally you didn't mention the pet reclaim of the cabalist, an excellent spell in some situations although not so much in fg vs fg rvr.

All said and done if the debuffs were moved to the enchantment line and the dps debuff interupt factor was removed a cabalist and a chanter would be very equal. Especially if you consider that a chanter will most likely be grouped with a mana eld.

The sad thing is that like you say a mana eld would now be a lot better than a mana chanter and a void eld a lot better than a enchantment chanter. However this new enchanter would still be very welcome in an alb pbae group im sure (nice pbae, a healing pet, BaoD, castable stun).

 

[Stallion-]

Originally posted by hotrat
dps debuff is >>>>> than str/dex debuff, dps debuff needs a FAT nerf its probably the most powerful thing on a chanter atm.

Stun is good against support and tanks, but because of det its reduced to support only. Root is only good against tanks, but because of det it only lasts about 5 seconds so imo stun > root.

Disease I will agree is very nice, but hardly as good as pbae especially considering elds have disease anyway.

Snare looks ok on paper, I haven't really seen it in rvr so I can't comment though.

DoT is absolute crap, especially on a cabalist spec'd spirit/body.

Chanter does get run speed as well, which effects pets even in combat, also the damage add can't be completely ignored, most hib groups run with at least 1 melee class.

Finally you didn't mention the pet reclaim of the cabalist, an excellent spell in some situations although not so much in fg vs fg rvr.

All said and done if the debuffs were moved to the enchantment line and the dps debuff interupt factor was removed a cabalist and a chanter would be very equal. Especially if you consider that a chanter will most likely be grouped with a mana eld.

The sad thing is that like you say a mana eld would now be a lot better than a mana chanter and a void eld a lot better than a enchantment chanter. However this new enchanter would still be very welcome in an alb pbae group im sure (nice pbae, a healing pet, BaoD, castable stun).

Cant disagree more.. first of all about the stun/root comparing... the root lets say lats 5 secs on a det5 tank with resist buffs... stun lasts 0.5. Stil the root gives the caster the advantage to get away, and also works great in a defensive peel off way.. also a verry nice since albs run mostly tank grps, a root on a running target = tehwin..also root > stun anyhow, since first of all.. the root interrupts the target for lets say 5 secs? Lets say the stun stick for 5 secs as it usaly does (not more cuz of resists) after those 5 secs the target is free to move.. while with a root its stil rooted but capable to cast stuff...

but lets look on the dps debuff..if your talking about the 21 spec one its -10% penalty... just some bakround, usaly if u play, usaly there is some kind of tank train on you... some1 is guarding you, dps debuffing the enemies support > debuffing a tank with -10% dps. as his usaly only 25%-33% (3-4 tanks) of the actuall the damage that makes it even less usable...
Rather a disabled support then 1 tank out of 2-3 tanks hitting for -1 relic.

Snare looks ok on paper, and prolly worth to be looked into.. one great thing if it works as it says.

You cant come and compare hib grps with cabbas now, only comparing enchanters utility in grps.. and you starting to talk about elds proves it even more that, chanters are missing something over their debuffs.

Runspeed useless in grp rvr, as we said we are comparing group utilities.

"Especially if you consider that a chanter will most likely be grouped with a mana eld." Just proves how bad utility a chanter has..Cabby have got the most grp friendly spells ive seen, and im even more convinced they need to do smth about chanters & their grouping abilities.

 

[hotrat]

Originally posted by Stallion-
Cant disagree more.. first of all about the stun/root comparing... the root lets say lats 5 secs on a det5 tank with resist buffs... stun lasts 0.5. Stil the root gives the caster the advantage to get away, and also works great in a defensive peel off way.. also a verry nice since albs run mostly tank grps, a root on a running target = tehwin..also root > stun anyhow, since first of all.. the root interrupts the target for lets say 5 secs? Lets say the stun stick for 5 secs as it usaly does (not more cuz of resists) after those 5 secs the target is free to move.. while with a root its stil rooted but capable to cast stuff...

but lets look on the dps debuff..if your talking about the 21 spec one its -10% penalty... just some bakround, usaly if u play, usaly there is some kind of tank train on you... some1 is guarding you, dps debuffing the enemies support > debuffing a tank with -10% dps. as his usaly only 25%-33% (3-4 tanks) of the actuall the damage that makes it even less usable...
Rather a disabled support then 1 tank out of 2-3 tanks hitting for -1 relic.

Snare looks ok on paper, and prolly worth to be looked into.. one great thing if it works as it says.

You cant come and compare hib grps with cabbas now, only comparing enchanters utility in grps.. and you starting to talk about elds proves it even more that, chanters are missing something over their debuffs.

Runspeed useless in grp rvr, as we said we are comparing group utilities.

"Especially if you consider that a chanter will most likely be grouped with a mana eld." Just proves how bad utility a chanter has..Cabby have got the most grp friendly spells ive seen, and im even more convinced they need to do smth about chanters & their grouping abilities.

Ok root is more useful than i put it out to be BUT as we are talking group rvr I think you have 2 druids in your group that can root. I would rather my clerics had root and cabalists had stun than my clerics have stun and my caba has root.

I dunno what your on about with dps debuff, it interupts, its instant cast, it needs a FAT NERF!

As we are talking group rvr here and any decent hib group will run with a mana eld and a mana chanter. Hibs would be no more powerful if you put the gimp ae mezz in the chanter light line, the ae str/con debuff and disease in the chanter mana line. They would gain no more utility because a Eld can already do all that. Yes its useful having a backup, but I personally would prefer a class with some new spells to offer (dps debuff, pet, heat debuff etc).
If you want a class that lacks utility take a ice wiz, they aren't even compareable to mana chanters or mana elds.

Run speed is not useless, bard will play end in combat, chanter speed still effects pets in combat.

How can you say a cabalist has the most group friendly spells you have seen.... Fact of the matter is hibs run pbae groups because of GP and 2 strong pbae classes, albs rarely run with cabalists because although their single target damage potential is huge and they carry some nice utility it just doesn't fit in with the rest of a typical alb group. A 1 Spirit Caba, 1 Mind Sorc, 2 Body Sorc's, 1 Mins, 2 Cleric, 1 Pala group probably makes the best use of a cabalist but is still very fragile and lacks the key to most succesful caster groups; PBAE.

 

[Xethron]

I always thought that resist debuffs were a good idea, to allow casters to be able to take down 2k2 HP tanks in today’s world of 45-60% resists and the fact that 2 casters would have to work together making the process possible. This would be something that required some practice and skill – observing one-another’s targets and timing it right (less so now with /assist) both being in range/view of the target etc. hence making casters viable again with out making them the point – shoot - win classes that they were before heavy resists.

However the way / classes / spec lines the de-buff spells were implemented in, were not thought out at all well and in its current form is horribly broken…

Being able to debuff your own base damage type breaks the skill aspect of it totally as you don’t need to work closely with another player to make it happen, you can start nuking the instant the debuff is made rather than having to either switch to that target or at least acquire that target and then start to cast, this is made even worse with the magician base stun, so many times I have had the classic: stun - debuff - Kablam – Kablam - /rel, being hit form a mez or a root, you at least have a QC to possibly be able to redeem yourself just not possible if your dead way before the stun duration has warn off… anyway little bitter about that and I would like the to be a constructive post rather than a flame so I will stop that right there (don’t say too late ;-p)

Albion having 4 casting classes has always been nuts but that is another issue, a spirit Cabby can debuff for: self (base body tap), body sorc (spec body nuke) [but then I only know of one of these and he is inactive now playing a 2H arms all others have gone Mind spec], mind sorc (base body tap) air theurg (spec spirit nuke), body cabby (spec body tap) [not too many of these about still either], fine but wizards (who are meant to be ranged damage dealers) cannot get access to the heat cold or matter debuffs (for Fire / Ice / Earth respectively) and infact matter cabbies which is damn annoying as mentioned there are very few sorcs full stop and next to all of them are mind spec or mind/matter or mind/body. Matter cabbies are sill wanted in grps because of NS and disease (on body minor spec) + bringing a pet to interrupt however with out any other utility or real grp benefit wizards have been made on the whole redundant say possibly being useful to take on wall fights and keep sieges.

Many sorcerers are spec’d 40body 36mind for the highest utility so they will have the 30% debuffs rather than the 50%s so hitting cap damage on a fully buffed target probably wont happen but some debuff is better than none, however even this rarely happens as my Sorc friends can testify that they spend their whole time CCing then running for their lives (being the first thing that is targeted by the assist train) or dead that they don’t get chance to debuff a target for me to assist and nuke.

I know this is getting a little circular maybe a little off topic but keep reading I have a cunning plan yet. Some might say that I and my sorc counterpart, should play better but I ask them to try being a sorc for a while with resists DET and interrupts and they might then understand. I am not sure how to fix this problem of poor access to elemental debuffs for Alb casters [I have to admit I know little about high level Mid casters as far as debuffs / cross de-buffing goes as have not played them at high level as I have Alb and Hib] as it has been said before probably scrapping one and spreading their abilities over the remaining three would make a huge to the realm difference but again that’s a debate for another thread. Moveing the debuffs form the body to mind line would over power one and weaken the other too much and there are now obvious abilities that could be exchanged between the lines to keep them both balanced. To keep the utility and interest factor of a sorc up in RvR and PvE a 2 line split spec is often preferred…

…how to gain access to elemental debuffs… <pass> maybe someone could make some suggestions after this post but here is an alternative idea to fix self de-debuffs:

A simple way I thought of that the self-debuff problem could have been fixed would have been to change the base damage type of the Chanter/Cabby/RM to an alternative but appropriate type. i.e. when magician becomes a chanter at level five, it’s base DD damage type is changed from say heat to energy, RM’s from cold to energy and a cabby from body to matter or something like that – damage types in keeping with the magic/spells of the class but preventing self de-buff from being possible. This change would still make cross de-buffing between casters classes quite viable but stop self de-buffs.

 

[hotrat]

Yep I agree totally Xethron, debuffs should always have only been usable if 2 classes were involved (the debuffer and the damager). However I would have prefered it also if the debuff was limited to say 30% but easier to use (maybe instant cast, no interupt). The state of casters without debuffs is awful (except for PBAE) but it flies the other way when your debuffed and the same caster who debuffed you can now kill you in 2 nukes.

The best way for albs to use elemental debuffs is to run with a mind sorc and a body sorc, the mind sorc focus's on CC while the body sorc does debuffs.

 

[Stallion-]

I must agree with the debuff issue, but your leaving the chanter intself quit useless... a chanter would clearly be soooooooo useless...tell me what chanters will have then? a pet? a insta dps debuff that interrupts 40% of the time (resisted) and a pbae... you gotte see that chanters HAVE _nothing_ to give except pet/debuff/pbae/insta debuff atm... and whats counting is the debuff really.. thats why thereso nly room for 1 chanter now adays.

 

[Stallion-]

and its not like chanters deal more dmg that other casters.. its just twice as fast at twice the power cost...damage overall is the same. its the damage per second that I would look at.. nerf you say.. sure I can agree..but we got nothing beyond that. Id love to actully do some use in a grp other than interrupt/nuke..maybe time to reroll bard or smth ? ^^

 

[Xethron]

yes, I agree this would be a good plan but as there are so few body sorcs about now as pretty much all have gone 36mind 40body or matter, wizards are still dead weight on open ground (I know I am whining a little, sorry but this is very important to my most enjoyed class) if my theurg had more siege abilities I would proabbly go back to playing him.

Example: a caster heavy grp with mind/body sorc, spirit/body cab and a air/earth theurg bring: grp mez resist / 2x pet + mentals / 10 PBT / mez, demez, root, amnesia... CC and interrupts etc and all can be de-buffed by the cabby. And with 3 casters on /assist targets would drop very quick + all the grp utility these classes bring make having 3 cloth castes not to hard to manage

Would make sense to change the energy de-buff in the cabby spirit line to be heat as well as Albion has no energy damage on any of it's classes (smite is spirit) and it prity mucha useless spell unless you want a 150% duration mez, and not even sure it would affect it that way) however top one is at 49 sprit spec and most cabbies are 46spirit 22body to keep base variance down <shrug> bit of a pickle, hope that someone comes up with a good plan to fix it...

I'll shut up now and do some work ;-]

 

[Stallion-]

well im stil kinda clueless about alb caster grps, and I wont argue with you since I know nothing about the issue, my problem is with ppl wanting to nerf chanters without a alternative solution...

but I gotta agree with the wizard issue... the class is just so stupid put out.. to many dd spells to make any use out of em all.

 

[Belomar]

Originally posted by Xethron
Example: a caster heavy grp with mind/body sorc, spirit/body cab and a air/earth theurg bring: grp mez resist / 2x pet + mentals / 10 PBT / mez, demez, root, amnesia... CC and interrupts etc and all can be de-buffed by the cabby. And with 3 casters on /assist targets would drop very quick + all the grp utility these classes bring make having 3 cloth castes not to hard to manage

Yes, it works very well, thank you.

 

[tuathra]

Originally posted by hotrat
Voidie debuffs energy, the pbae damage type and the spec nuke that mana elds also get in the mana line. Hence not being able to debuff their own damage but only the damage of others, which is imo exactly how debuffs should work.

Instead mythic gave some classes the ability to debuff their own damage, then nerfed it totally the wrong way.

This will ofc kill the chanters. No debuff for their baseliners, but only for the elds - and thus we create the caster example of a zerker, i am sure you are right it is overpowered.

I just think it will kill another class.

 

[Garbannoch Nox]

To be honest noone would whine about chanters if the self debuffing was on a class/spec like spirit cabbies or RC runies
the fact that a pbaoe class with pet can debuff its own 179 delve dd makes it better than most other casters.
The debuff nerf has gone completely wrong harming a variety of caster classes some even more than the self-debuff classes themselves: the shortened debuff will make it impossible for other mages to assist (light menta, darkness runie, air theurg, etc) cause the duration will just not be long enough.
Maybe the best solution would have been to give chanters a lower delve base dd (130-140). This would have taken away some damage from the enchanter while other mages could still /assist on a heat debuffed target.

 

[hotrat]

Just move the debuffs to enchantment and put some snare nuke or pbae mezz or single target root or whatever into the mana line, anything with a bit of utility.

 

[Xaldrick]

Originally posted by hotrat
Just move the debuffs to enchantment and put some snare nuke or pbae mezz or single target root or whatever into the mana line, anything with a bit of utility.

yes please add cure mezz, ablative chant, spec af buffs and determination selfbuff + chant to mana line then