RvR Poll!

[choonz]

For me its Chanters. I watch em on a daily basis and the things they do make me want to puke. Guess im just sick of being raped by em

In all honesty tho no one class really annoys me much, more the combination of classes that some realms have. AOE Disease is always annoying. Insta Crowd control spoils the game for anyone not running in a group also. Not things that are going to make me whine into my beer, but minor annoyances none the less.

 

[nalistah]

Dragonfang should be a option imo

 

[Divinia]

SoS ~~

 

[Ekydus]

Zergs aren't the problem, as zergs can be fun. What you actually meant is that gank groups are the worst. What is the point in fighting 15v1 ?

 

[Aybabtu]

Originally posted by nalistah
Dragonfang should be a option imo

So should adds on stealthers

 

[Melachi-]

Originally posted by choonz
For me its Chanters. I watch em on a daily basis and the things they do make me want to puke. Guess im just sick of being raped by em

In all honesty tho no one class really annoys me much, more the combination of classes that some realms have. AOE Disease is always annoying. Insta Crowd control spoils the game for anyone not running in a group also. Not things that are going to make me whine into my beer, but minor annoyances none the less.

What total waffle, your saying mid is overpowered because healers have CC and Heals versus Sorc CC and Clerics heals. Then why isnt Hibernia the most overpowered realm?

Support things: CC, Heals(3 spreadheals), Speed, End
Going with 3 spreadheals just for comparison, i know most alb groups only go with 2 and hibs go with just 2 aswell sometimes

Mid:
Spreadheal: Healer
Spreadheal: Healer
Spreadheal & CC: Healer pac
End regen: Shaman
Speed: Skald
Total: 5

Alb:
Spreadheal: Cleric
Spreadheal: Cleric
Spreadheal: Cleric
CC: Sorc
End regen: Paladin
Speed: Mincer
Total: 6

Hib:
Druid
Druid
Druid
Bard
Total: 4


Its a combination of things that makes midgard overpowered in 1fg versus 1fg RvR. Bear in mind though that this is really the only part of the game where Midgard is overpowered.

P.S. Voted for Savage ;P

 

[Xaldrick]

Originally posted by hotrat
Haha classic reply, can't think of a decent response to what is exactly the reason why hib pbae groups are so strong at the moment.

I never hear anyone complain of anything in alb apart from SoS BoF and Infils.

Okay, Ill point it out

Originally posted by hotrat
Chanter and GP and 3 power relics and damn druid pets and insta mezz and insta root and hib groups that know how to play instead of just pbae4tehwin!

Insta mezz = 30 secs = nothing on determined tanks +plus determination chant, and if they GP you can just SoS and run away. Druid pet ? Now Im not experienced with sorcs, but in theory you could do the same with a charmed creature.

A well played hib group atm is overpowered not because of how it kills using pbae but because of its insane ranged damage, its ability to stop enemy support doing anything without relying on mezz and having a perfect RA set for a caster group (GP, BaoD in case they meet another caster group that might kill them from outside of the pbae box, TWF).

They got ranged dmg yes, but its FAR from insane - keep in mind that we're talking baseline nukes, not spec ones. If you debuff+dd it deals about same dmg as a savage - problem is its so very very easy to interrupt/disable that you cant compare it to savages who on the other hand as we all know are very overpowered. Oh, and Ive been hit by a fire wizard for 9xx dmg two times in a row with capped fire resist, aom II and yellow fire resist buff, so dont tell me your casters cant pack a punch as well.

I would love to see a mid pbae group vs a hib pbae group, insta mezz, cast ae stun on top, run in and reek havoc and yes I know GP and BaoD would ruin that idea

Im not sure if you're aware of this, but its far from every chanter who has baod unlike druids and GP. Should this occur, the mids would still be the most likely to win the battle since they got the jump, they are pbing and interrupting everything and their support would be in a safe possition to heal/disease/amnesia etc.
Now, if only hibs had aoe stun we could start talking about overpowering.

Just put the heat debuff in enchantments, put the damage add (from enchantments) into mana, stop insta dps debuff interupting, make pets interupt according to their level not the owners, and make pets lose speed in combat for a start. Would also be nice to stop pets from catching pbt at any range and allow it to be penetrated if the pets are lower than the attackers level.

Chanters would have so very little utility if you moved the heat debuff to enchantments. Would only be able to pb, and you could as well pick another mana eld instead. Also, theres a reason chanter mana line is called Empowering.
Attack speed debuff no longer interrupts.
I agree with the pet part, but its more of a druid issue

Hibs just have too many bugs in their favour (no class should ever have been able to debuff their own damage), combined with imo the nicest RA in the game (it allows such diverse group set ups).

Debuff isnt a bug, its a feature and rune masters can do it as well, now does that make them overpowered too? Oh, and when speaking of bugs take a closer look at how bug-free, balanced and logical the interrupt code is - you should know that as a sorc. Yes, hibs have nice RA's but so have albs.

The trouble is mythic wanted to add elemental debuffs and for some reason they wanted the 3 pet classes of each realm to have some and when it came to the enchanter they decided to put them in the pbae line (instead of a different line like the other 2 realms). Then thought shall we give them spirit, body and energy? no energy debuff and energy pbae in the same line would be too powerful so put the heat, cold and matter. Would it really have been that hard to put all the debuffs in classes that cannot inflict that damage type?

I dont see the point in this really, unless you're reffering to 1 vs 1 encounters. In most situations you would see a chanter stunning/debuffing while 2 elds are assist-nuking on that target, and if none of them gets interrupted and the hibs got the jump, that target would be dead before the chanter could get to nuke himself. Also, this is possible for all realms so why is it especially overpowered for hibs? The only reason you dont see this comming from albs/mids is that they tend to use tank groups only.
Oh and btw, ice wizards can ghetto-debuff ALL their targets in one single spell then pb them.

bah enough ranting I just wish mythic would fix all the bugs and balance RvR before adding new content (like TOA).

Agreed, but hib is not the realm that needs nerfing. Albs need a slightly buffing some places (concerning propper rvr, this does not include stealthwars) and mids needs slightly nerfing. Bugs are a penalty for hibs, not a benefit.

On top of all this, all hibs damage/utility spells are either equal or weaker than their albion/midgardian counterparts, and hib is the only realm who does not have mr up in combat in regular group setup.

 

[kirennia]

Originally posted by Xaldrick
Oh and btw, ice wizards can ghetto-debuff ALL their targets in one single spell then pb them.

Sorry but just had to point this out. It's a 10% ae debuff on a 3 second cast timer so you'd have to be able to get off 6 or 7 pbaoes before it was worth doing the debuff. And lets face it, how often does your target stay in the same place for that long?

I.e, it's about as useful as armsmen using x-bow in a keep siege (no offense Treniel)

 

[pitspawn]

Off topic but..

Oh, and Ive been hit by a fire wizard for 9xx dmg two times in a row with capped fire resist, aom II and yellow fire resist buff, so dont tell me your casters cant pack a punch as well.

Bullshit.

On average i hit for figures like 250(-250) against your setup prolly more like 220 (-280) How on earth do you get hit for 900?

Albs need a slightly buffing some places

Our realm needs a fucking overhaul tbh. If it was down to me id equalize the number of classes per realm for a start.

 

[zeelee]

Originally posted by Xaldrick
and Ive been hit by a fire wizard for 9xx dmg two times in a row with capped fire resist, aom II and yellow fire resist buff, so dont tell me your casters cant pack a punch as well.

Originally posted by pitspawn
Off topic but..

Bullshit.

why would he lie about it ?

 

[Xaldrick]

Originally posted by pitspawn
Off topic but..



Bullshit.

the proof is here.

My guess would be debuff + 49% crit, so yes, your casters CAN do "insane damage". I wouldnt even call it overpowered tho since it would have been sooooo easy to stop it by interrupting.

 

[pitspawn]

Originally posted by zeelee
why would he lie about it ?

Maybe he wasnt lieing about it, but if hes not he must have been debuffed 50% heat from a pure body sorc and critical hit from a buffed high realm rank wiz. If this is the case its not a good example to use to proove that alb have good casters. You take the average of how much you get hit for and use that in your arguement. OFC he wont do that because he knows wizards are gimps.

Edit:

Originally posted by Xaldrick
the proof is here.

You got hit by zoyster wtf do you expect lol.

 

[vintervargen]

heat deboof + 2 bolts or smth?

 

[Xaldrick]

nope, was dds hence the almost equal damage

 

[Xaldrick]

Originally posted by pitspawn
Maybe he wasnt lieing about it, but if hes not he must have been debuffed 50% heat from a pure body sorc and critical hit from a buffed high realm rank wiz. If this is the case its not a good example to use to proove that alb have good casters. You take the average of how much you get hit for and use that in your arguement. OFC he wont do that because he knows wizards are gimps.

Edit:

You got hit by zoyster wtf do you expect lol.

This could _in theory_ be done by a myrmidon wizard as well, so you cant use that as an argument. Fact is zoyster is one of the only alb casters you bump into in fg vs fg encounters. My point is that someone said chanters are overpowered because they can debuff their own dmg type and do "insane damage" from distance - theres the proof that you can do that as well ...

 

[pitspawn]

Chanters dont need another class to debuff their damage for them, they can do it themselves. If I or any other wizard wants to do the damage they can do we need a body sorc rammed up our arse. There arent enough sorcs period in alb atm, even less high body spec sorcs.

nope, was dds hence the almost equal damage

Bullshit again...

995 and 988

Im not 100% sure on this but im pretty certain if you get a crit it has a minimum % add of like ~20% (Max add is 50%). In the above instance the crit is like 0.3% add prooving that they are both criticals, probably heavy ones of that. But id expect that from a RR10 wizard, zoy prolly has like WP4 - WP5

 

[zeelee]

max crit is 49% fyi
=))

 

[Xaldrick]

Originally posted by pitspawn
Chanters dont need another class to debuff their damage for them, they can do it themselves. If I or any other wizard wants to do the damage they can do we need a body sorc rammed up our arse. There arent enough sorcs period in alb atm, even less high body spec sorcs.



Bullshit again...

995 and 988

Im not 100% sure on this but im pretty certain if you get a crit it has a minimum % add of like ~20% (Max add is 50%). In the above instance the crit is like 0.3% add prooving that they are both criticals, probably heavy ones of that. But id expect that from a RR10 wizard, zoy prolly has like WP4 - WP5

K, Ill try your style

Bullshit

 

[pitspawn]

Originally posted by Xaldrick
K, Ill try your style

Bullshit

lol

BTW, why do you think that theyre not criticals? You cant proove that theyre not both crits. Infact evidence suggests heavily that they were infact crits.

Sorry for sounding like an asshole, but i get pretty annoyed when people say wizards can do what enchanters can.

 

[Xaldrick]

Im a bit tired trying to "communicate" with you since obviously you dont read before you start flaming.

Originally posted by pitspawn
lol

BTW, why do you think that theyre not criticals? You cant proove that theyre not both crits. Infact evidence suggests heavily that they were infact crits.

Originally posted by Xaldrick
My guess would be debuff + 49% crit, so yes, your casters CAN do "insane damage". I wouldnt even call it overpowered tho since it would have been sooooo easy to stop it by interrupting.

Originally posted by pitspawn
Chanters dont need another class to debuff their damage for them, they can do it themselves. If I or any other wizard wants to do the damage they can do we need a body sorc rammed up our arse. There arent enough sorcs period in alb atm, even less high body spec sorcs.

Originally posted by Xaldrick

I dont see the point in this really, unless you're reffering to 1 vs 1 encounters. In most situations you would see a chanter stunning/debuffing while 2 elds are assist-nuking on that target, and if none of them gets interrupted and the hibs got the jump, that target would be dead before the chanter could get to nuke himself. Also, this is possible for all realms so why is it especially overpowered for hibs? The only reason you dont see this comming from albs/mids is that they tend to use tank groups only.
Oh and btw, ice wizards can ghetto-debuff ALL their targets in one single spell then pb them.

...

 

[pitspawn]

Oh, and Ive been hit by a fire wizard for 9xx dmg two times in a row with capped fire resist, aom II and yellow fire resist buff, so dont tell me your casters cant pack a punch as well.

Do you not see why i am angry at you m8? Your using the most extreme instance ever to state how good our casters are.

My point is that someone said chanters are overpowered because they can debuff their own dmg type and do "insane damage" from distance - theres the proof that you can do that as well ...

We cant debuff our own damage type, enchanters can.

 

[Xaldrick]

and exactly why is that overpowered when chanters needs to assist to kill targets as well ?

EDIT: The only reason I took the zoyster dmg as an example is because he is the only fire wizard Ive ever seen in a fg, and hence the only reason I tasted and saved it - most fire wizards I see are solo, buffless players camping milegates since noone groups them.

 

[vintervargen]

RC rm's can too.

in both cases they are using base dd's to do the damage, spells which both caps pretty low.

 

[zeelee]

nice wajn but u dont have to be angry ... it's just a game

if u get like this every time some1 say anything about u wizzy u better find somthing els to do imo

 

[pitspawn]

Originally posted by zeelee
if u get like this every time some1 say anything about u wizzy u better find somthing els to do imo

Yeah, maybe i should go easymode and make a savage to relax a bit eh?

EDIT: The only reason I took the zoyster dmg as an example is because he is the only fire wizard Ive ever seen in a fg, and hence the only reason I tasted and saved it - most fire wizards I see are solo, buffless players camping milegates since noone groups them.

Thats mostly true, although ive been in a few groups with 2 wizards or even three wizards recently. Then again real RvR guild groups wont team wizards =(

 

[hotrat]

Originally posted by Xaldrick
Okay, Ill point it out




Insta mezz = 30 secs = nothing on determined tanks +plus determination chant, and if they GP you can just SoS and run away. Druid pet ? Now Im not experienced with sorcs, but in theory you could do the same with a charmed creature.

Insta mezz is enough to win the first mezz fight. I don't wanna say too much here in case all hibs start doing it but the way DH use insta mezz is the exact way it should be used and makes it seem very powerful indeed (yes it is quite obvious but amazing how few hib groups do it).
SoS won't really help much if hibs GP, I could run out of the 1500 range and keep myself alive but that doesnt stop all the hibs pbae'ing and killing my tanks, unless they take a target each but they can't cus of 6 sec pbt, they have to assist. Meanwhile I have 3 pets chasing after me at chanter speed, 2 of which break off to go and hit the clerics who are trying to keep the tanks alive.... SoS is much better saved vs hib or mid tank groups.
Yep I have a pet and the fixes I mentioned need to be applied to my pet as well.

They got ranged dmg yes, but its FAR from insane - keep in mind that we're talking baseline nukes, not spec ones. If you debuff+dd it deals about same dmg as a savage - problem is its so very very easy to interrupt/disable that you cant compare it to savages who on the other hand as we all know are very overpowered. Oh, and Ive been hit by a fire wizard for 9xx dmg two times in a row with capped fire resist, aom II and yellow fire resist buff, so dont tell me your casters cant pack a punch as well.

So your saying 586 dmg per nuke per 1.5 sec is ok? just cus its the same as a savage? Thats enough to kill my sorc in 2 casts if I have been insta str/con debuffed. If it was 2 classes, one that heat debuffed and a second that nuked me I could accept it, but its 1 person and therefore much easier to co-ordinate and pull off. 9xx damage twice in a row sounds like 50% heat debuff from a SORC yes a second class, it also sounds like 2 bolts as the cap damage for a nuke must be around 800 damage. Lets take 2 chanters doing the same, 586 from both, 1172 damage two times in a row....

Im not sure if you're aware of this, but its far from every chanter who has baod unlike druids and GP. Should this occur, the mids would still be the most likely to win the battle since they got the jump, they are pbing and interrupting everything and their support would be in a safe possition to heal/disease/amnesia etc.
Now, if only hibs had aoe stun we could start talking about overpowering.

If mids (especially rvr guilds) started running pbae groups more often I bet most chanters would get BaoD. The fact is mids don't BECAUSE of BaoD, they know that if hibs use that they will have no chance to win. So as mids and most albs don't run caster groups most chanters don't get BaoD until high realm rank. If hibs got ae stun it would just be another nail in the coffin for alb and mid caster groups, tank groups would barely be effected because of determintion.

Chanters would have so very little utility if you moved the heat debuff to enchantments. Would only be able to pb, and you could as well pick another mana eld instead. Also, theres a reason chanter mana line is called Empowering.
Attack speed debuff no longer interrupts.
I agree with the pet part, but its more of a druid issue

Chanters would have exactly the same utility if you did a direct swap of two spells in two different lines! I am not removing any spells therefore im not removing any utility. A chanter would still be able to do ranged damage, it would still have a pet, in fact it would be very similar to all the other pbae classes, strong damage with pbae but weak at range. What is the reason why chanter mana line is called Empowering?
Yes thank goodness asd doesn't interupt anymore.

Debuff isnt a bug, its a feature and rune masters can do it as well, now does that make them overpowered too? Oh, and when speaking of bugs take a closer look at how bug-free, balanced and logical the interrupt code is - you should know that as a sorc. Yes, hibs have nice RA's but so have albs.

No it doesn't make RM's overpowered as its not in the same line as another powerful spell; pbae. The fact its being nerfed next patch makes it obvious that its overpowered. The annoying thing is now if a chanter does debuff for a eld the duration is still shortened, same for a RM debuffing for a SM or a cabalist debuffing for a sorc. Its only debuffing your own damage that I find overpowered.

I dont see the point in this really, unless you're reffering to 1 vs 1 encounters. In most situations you would see a chanter stunning/debuffing while 2 elds are assist-nuking on that target, and if none of them gets interrupted and the hibs got the jump, that target would be dead before the chanter could get to nuke himself. Also, this is possible for all realms so why is it especially overpowered for hibs? The only reason you dont see this comming from albs/mids is that they tend to use tank groups only.
Oh and btw, ice wizards can ghetto-debuff ALL their targets in one single spell then pb them.

In most situations its just the chanter nuking that kills me, with maybe a eld getting in one nuke if he is quick enough, nobody needs to assist the enchanter when they are doing 550+ a nuke, thats enough to kill most things in 4 casts. The chanter should debuff and still nuke for ~200 like they do without debuff but if a eld assists then the eld should hit for 550+. Exactly like if a void eld debuffs for a mana eld atm.
Yes its possible for all realms but cabalist and RM suck compared to a chanter, and its overpowered for hibs as they get pbae and strong ranged damage and a pet and a insta interupt all in the same class.
Alb groups use tank groups because we do not have access to GP.
That ice wizard ae debuff sucks like someone else said it takes 7 or 8 pbae's to make up the damage you lost from casting the ae debuff instead of a pbae.

Agreed, but hib is not the realm that needs nerfing. Albs need a slightly buffing some places (concerning propper rvr, this does not include stealthwars) and mids needs slightly nerfing. Bugs are a penalty for hibs, not a benefit.

On top of all this, all hibs damage/utility spells are either equal or weaker than their albion/midgardian counterparts, and hib is the only realm who does not have mr up in combat in regular group setup.

Well im glad you agree alb are lacking compared to hib, especially in caster vs caster groups. Some bugs are a benefit to hibs, like speed effecting pets even in combat, pbt, and GP effecting pets. If GP should effect pets why doesn't purge effect your own pet? and why doesn't SoS effect any pets in a alb group?
I agree hibs do lack power regen in combat but albs lack disease on a decent class and thats a much more major factor imo.

 

[Karnat]

Nukenin keep up that stlong zerg m8

And btw mids stop that whining

Cheers Karnat

 

[old.m0000]

savages

but chanters are a close second

in my opinion anything that can stun a rogue/tank and kill it before the stun runs out is overpowered. The only difference is that chanters can do it from 1500 range and it takes 7-8 seconds - savages do it from 0 range and it takes 2 seconds.

but then, at least you can run from a savage

 

[VodkaFairy]

Originally posted by old.m0000
savages

but chanters are a close second

in my opinion anything that can stun a rogue/tank and kill it before the stun runs out is overpowered. The only difference is that chanters can do it from 1500 range and it takes 7-8 seconds - savages do it from 0 range and it takes 2 seconds.

but then, at least you can run from a savage

Running from a savage is kinda hard tbh

Back stun + in groups with shaman (= perma disease) and perma end

 

[ilaya]

nice vent