Russian Poison?

Gwadien

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It's becoming more and more obvious that this was Putin's plan all along - he's laughing at the West.
 

Wij

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It's becoming more and more obvious that this was Putin's plan all along - he's laughing at the West.
Their passports had consecutive serial numbers. Not suspicious at all.

Plus the CCTV shows they headed away from the Cathedral rather than towards.

The more brazen the lie the better apparently.
 

Gwadien

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They clearly came up with the most unbelievable alibi ever.

Just to show the West how weak we are and how we need Putin's pals as leaders.
 

Wij

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It's deliberately naff. They want us to know without actually admitting it.
 

Job

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They actually mentioned snow.
As I said..we have nothing and they are laughing.
 

SilverHood

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We were in England for 2 days, and visited their main attraction, Salisbury cathedral.... said no one ever, until now!
 

Job

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Confirmed..
Because we think so.
 

Scouse

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OK @Wij, I've given it another serious go.

This is the guy who wrote the piece:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Po8Ma1EX3zA


And I don't disagree that he has strongly held views. I think it's admirable to stand up in a room like that and make a challenge. Quite a brave thing to do.

But his use of the extremes of Corbyn supporters (the canary) to have a pop at Corbyn himself (rather than dealing with what Corbyn himself has stated) and the antisemitic smearing (the videos he links to ffs - it's not antisemitic to hold a view that you suspect that the state of Israel is involved in distabilising <whatever> because it's got a long history of doing exactly that) means that his message is lost.

Yes. Russia do shit things. We do shit things too. Laying that at the feet of a man who's anti-war isn't helpful. We've not had an anti-war power platform in parliament for as long as I remember - and there is space for that. The Skripal poisoning aside (which is a shit state of affairs however you look at it) the bigger picture is about how we conduct ourselves as a country. And we've been left wanting, and the only political leader who wants to do anything about that is Corbyn.

Again, not that I particularly like him, and actually think I stand to lose if he gets into power.

I don't really understand your vehement hatred of him over, say, Theresa May - who represents the status quo. They both seem equally incompetent in their own way.
 

Wij

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OK @Wij, I've given it another serious go.

This is the guy who wrote the piece:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Po8Ma1EX3zA


And I don't disagree that he has strongly held views. I think it's admirable to stand up in a room like that and make a challenge. Quite a brave thing to do.

But his use of the extremes of Corbyn supporters (the canary) to have a pop at Corbyn himself (rather than dealing with what Corbyn himself has stated) and the antisemitic smearing (the videos he links to ffs - it's not antisemitic to hold a view that you suspect that the state of Israel is involved in distabilising <whatever> because it's got a long history of doing exactly that) means that his message is lost.

Yes. Russia do shit things. We do shit things too. Laying that at the feet of a man who's anti-war isn't helpful. We've not had an anti-war power platform in parliament for as long as I remember - and there is space for that. The Skripal poisoning aside (which is a shit state of affairs however you look at it) the bigger picture is about how we conduct ourselves as a country. And we've been left wanting, and the only political leader who wants to do anything about that is Corbyn.

Again, not that I particularly like him, and actually think I stand to lose if he gets into power.

I don't really understand your vehement hatred of him over, say, Theresa May - who represents the status quo. They both seem equally incompetent in their own way.
Tankies are not anti-war. They are anti-west. They give Russia and Iran a free pass. Corbyn was much more concerned about western intervention in Kosovo than the actual massacres that were occurring. It's a complete double-standard.

And you can lay it at the feet of Corbyn. He chose to work with the likes of Seamus Milne. No one forced him.
 

Gwadien

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Didn't Corbyn actually say maybe we shouldn't instantly jump to conclusions?

Reading that article, he seemed happy to punish the Russians for something they've been proven to do.
 

Scouse

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I thought it was perfectly reasonable at the time for Corbyn to want to follow international convention rather than blindly immediately blame Russia - which most other people did.

Especially when this was the position of the people who actually knew what they were talking about.

When you're challenging the status quo, right or wrong, the incumbent media and political interests are going to be weighed against you.

Edit: And add to his stance that he's voted against all foreign intervention - including Kosovo - he's also been against Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya - and was clearly correct on those occasions.

If you weigh it up - not wading in to war is more often than not the correct course of action. So I'm not willing to condemn a guy who's anti-war for being right more often than he's wrong.
 

Bodhi

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Didn't Corbyn actually say maybe we shouldn't instantly jump to conclusions?

Reading that article, he seemed happy to punish the Russians for something they've been proven to do.
I'll give him credit when he takes the same attitude around Israel.
 

Job

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Israel is built on genocide , mass expulsion and confiscation of land and property, which goes on to this day.
Those are the facts, the rest is interpretation and the memoirs of the victors.
It is only a matter of time before the Arab world in the area unites to challenge the US to defend it against an overwhelming force.
 

Bodhi

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Cool story bro. Maybe if they stopped lobbing rockets at Israel they'd be treated a bit better.

But it still doesn't explain why this particular man of peace, only ever talks to and supports one side of the argument - IRA / Palestine / Russia etc. Cunningly the side "against" the UK.

It's almost as if his reputation as a terrorist sympathiser is completely warranted.
 

Wij

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Gwadien

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Cool story bro. Maybe if they stopped lobbing rockets at Israel they'd be treated a bit better.

But it still doesn't explain why this particular man of peace, only ever talks to and supports one side of the argument - IRA / Palestine / Russia etc. Cunningly the side "against" the UK.

It's almost as if his reputation as a terrorist sympathiser is completely warranted.
I don't see how removing an established village has anything to do with anyone lobbing rockets.

You're mixing up the treatment of terrorists and civilians.

IRA - Funny one that - Corbyn was chatting to the IRA dudes way before it was cool to do so - do you think he goes in saying 'Continue blowing people up chaps' or maybe he tries to talk to them to achieve a peaceful means. Like you know, creating a local Government that is represented by former members of the IRA, awful that - UK Government collaborating with known terrorists.

Russia? - On Russia Corbyn echoes many people - Why should the West have the dominant position in the world and forcing everyone to bend to their will? That's a good course for war isn't it? Proud and powerful countries such as Russia will never stand for it.

Obviously this position isn't respected in established politics because looking at your own countries actions and suggesting that they could be wrong is self-hating and has no place in politics.

Put it this way, if we were on the brink of war, I'd rather send Corbyn over May to any final meetings, because Corbyn wouldn't be blindly led into a war which most likely would have a mundane and unjust reason for starting.
 

Wij

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Russia? - On Russia Corbyn echoes many people - Why should the West have the dominant position in the world and forcing everyone to bend to their will? That's a good course for war isn't it? Proud and powerful countries such as Russia will never stand for it.

Obviously this position isn't respected in established politics because looking at your own countries actions and suggesting that they could be wrong is self-hating and has no place in politics.
That's a terrible false equivalence. Why should Ukraine and Georgia have to accept being dominated by Russia and have puppet governments and stolen territory when they don't want it? If they want to join an alliance against Russian aggression then that's their choice. Russia is the one that gives the absurd narrative of a multi polar world where the US can boss it's neighbors around as long as Russia can boss it's neighbors around.
 

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