Russian Poison?

[Wij]

I'm just surprised anyone thinks that we're any different really.

The UK and the US simply do not have the resources dedicated to info war that Russia does. Not even close.

The destruction of the idea a facts is not part of the mission of the CIA although non-state actors in the US like Fox News like to engage in whataboutism and muddying the waters to an epic degree.

 

[Job]

Nope.
The UK us one of the most powerful spy countries on the planet, in a joint US enterprise we have the worlds largest spy base and basically monitor Russia and Europe for the Americans.
The rest of Europe dont even come close and stopping intelligence sharing was an early brexit threat, the EU went apeshit at such a damaging possibilty and we basicalky apologised for being so heavy handed.

 

[Wij]

Nope.
The UK us one of the most powerful spy countries on the planet, in a joint US enterprise we have the worlds largest spy base and basically monitor Russia and Europe for the Americans.
The rest of Europe dont even come close and stopping intelligence sharing was an early brexit threat, the EU went apeshit at such a damaging possibilty and we basicalky apologised for being so heavy handed.

You misunderstand. I'm not talking about intelligence.

 

[Scouse]

The UK and the US simply do not have the resources dedicated to info war that Russia does. Not even close.

Only thing I say to that is - are you sure?

Would they tell us if they did? How do you actually know?

 

[Job]

You misunderstand. I'm not talking about intelligence.

oh yeah.
Anyway if people are talking about your info war you have lost..its whats getting unnoticed that's important.

 

[Exioce]

By chance, an ex-white supremacist on Sam Harris' podcast today, founder of Life After Hate, talking about his two decades of experience talking members out of the sub-culture. Turns out his last decade has been dominated by countering Russian sockpuppets, who have been enthusiastically stirring up Western culture wars.

Or, according to the two posts above: nothing to see here / we do worse / there's no proof etc.

 

[Scouse]

Or, according to the two posts above: nothing to see here / we do worse / there's no proof etc.

I'm not saying it's not happening Exioce. I'm definitely not saying "nothing to see here".

But as for the "we do worse" and "there's no proof" - all you're doing is pointing at internet articles that say a thing. I'm sure the guys on the other side are doing the same thing. It's not proof of anything IMO.

And, honestly, I don't care that much. What I think is: they're all shit.

 

[Wij]

Just take that account on Twitter I outed as Russian a few weeks back:

Blue Wave of Fraud ‍♀️CrISIS (@girl4trump) on Twitter

It now has a completely different picture and has set its location to be Washington DC but it's still pumping out masses of propaganda memes and lies whilst pretending to be American. There are thousands of these sock-puppet accounts and millions of bots pushing their content at people. The West has nothing like this. Running sock-puppets and botnets is a standard boring job in Russia like being an IT recruiter is in the UK. People do it because they can't find anything better. Everyone knows someone in some towns and cities who does it. It's not even secret in Russia because it is too common to keep secret. If we had anything like it we would know. Thousands of low-paid people can't keep a secret.

 

[DaGaffer]

I'm not saying it's not happening Exioce. I'm definitely not saying "nothing to see here".

But as for the "we do worse" and "there's no proof" - all you're doing is pointing at internet articles that say a thing. I'm sure the guys on the other side are doing the same thing. It's not proof of anything IMO.

And, honestly, I don't care that much. What I think is: they're all shit.

Ultimately, if they're all shit but one is poisoning English market towns and the other one isn't...pick a fucking side.

 

[Scouse]

Ultimately, if they're all shit but one is poisoning English market towns and the other one isn't...pick a fucking side.

Pick a cause, not a side.

 

[Wij]

Pick a cause, not a side.

Chemical weapons are bad?

 

[Scouse]

Chemical weapons are bad?

Yep, like I already said, they are. Terrible things. Especially when you're not 100% sure who's using them or to what end.

Meanwhile...

 

[Wij]

Yep, like I already said, they are. Terrible things. Especially when you're not 100% sure who's using them or to what end.

Meanwhile...

Russia is using them. To kill people. To intimidate those who might want to defy Putin in anything. To stir up unfriendly talk from Western governments which it can use to say that Russia needs a strong leader to stand up against 'Russophobia'.

There is no doubt on any of that.

 

[Scouse]

I'd definitely agree that that's the most likely explanation @Wij.

But I'm past dealing in absolutes with any of this shower of arseholes. They've squandered my political loyalties.

Even if I was, like you, 100% sure that it was the Russian government (not 'The Russians') - what the fuck am I supposed to do?

No. There are more serious issues affecting the health, wellbeing and safety of the British public than arsehole politicians and spies acting like they always have. It's a poor use of public time to focus on this when there are more deserving causes...

...pick a cause. This is a shitty situation, yep, but there are plenty of things much more worthy of attention. Perhaps not as emotive things, but more worthy nonetheless..

 

[Job]

Who exactly is drumming up this anti Putin fever, it seems the entire media have a combined agenda, while it means jackshit to most people.
I have yet to talk to anyone of any class or education who gives a monkeys.

 

[Exioce]

I believe Putin is ultimately responsible for the 150~ diplomats expelled from 20 Western countries this week.
He has been waging a hybrid war against us for the last decade, doing everything he can to weaken NATO countries and ex-Soviet satellites.

 

[Gwadien]

I believe Putin is ultimately responsible for the 150~ diplomats expelled from 20 Western countries this week.
He has been waging a hybrid war against us for the last decade, doing everything he can to weaken NATO countries and ex-Soviet satellites.

Apart from the only ones being weakened are us.

Putin is consolidating his leadership with our not-so nice words.

 

[Wij]

Who exactly is drumming up this anti Putin fever, it seems the entire media have a combined agenda, while it means jackshit to most people.
I have yet to talk to anyone of any class or education who gives a monkeys.

Putin is literally invading Ukraine and has annexed a part of it already. He has been murdering people around the world and exporting corruption with money stolen from the Russian people. Russian state TV decries the West as the enemies of Russia. If people don't care about that they either aren't being informed enough about it or are pretty short-sighted about how it might affect us.

 

[Wij]

Apart from the only ones being weakened are us.

Putin is consolidating his leadership with our not-so nice words.

Not so nice words should only be the start. The West should be implementing Magnitsky sanctions against oligarchs now and making genuine threats to withdraw Russia's access to SWIFT:

A Ban On SWIFT Could Hit Russia Where It Hurts Most (MA, V)

 

[Job]

Putin is literally invading Ukraine and has annexed a part of it already. He has been murdering people around the world and exporting corruption with money stolen from the Russian people. Russian state TV decries the West as the enemies of Russia. If people don't care about that they either aren't being informed enough about it or are pretty short-sighted about how it might affect us.

People of a certain age are used to these types of killings..nothing comes of it, a bit a dummy spitting.
The poison tipped umbrella was a classic.
Georgi Markov - Wikipedia

 

[Bodhi]

Yep, like I already said, they are. Terrible things. Especially when you're not 100% sure who's using them or to what end.

Meanwhile...

Chemical weapons in being slightly more scary than statistical constructs shocker.

Also meanwhile....

Putin is funding Green groups to discredit fracking

I'm guessing you're happy to ignore that particular funding model however?

 

[Scouse]

Chemical weapons in being slightly more scary than statistical constructs shocker

True. And humans in "are fucking dumb and woefully inadequate at quantifying risk" non-shocker.

Also meanwhile....

Putin is funding Green groups to discredit fracking

Two republicans with well-known agendas to roll back Obama's environmental policies now Trump is in charge are publishing stories (admitting there's "no paper trail" (read: evidence)) that say Putin is behind green efforts to put a halt on damaging fracking shocker...


Must try harder @Bodhi....

 

[Wij]

Actually I saw some pretty good evidence of the Russian anti-fracking propaganda a while ago. I'll have to see if I can dig it out. It makes perfect sense. US fracking has vastly lowered the price of oil and gas which has fucked the Russian companies that fund the oligarchs (ok not fucked but reduced their profit a lot.)

Also European fracking has the potential to free Europe from Russian gas leverage. However since it's not really taken off due to green worrying they are instead about to shoot themselves in the foot by building Nord Stream 2 which is a terrible idea.

Anyway, another thing to add to the list:

Top U.S. Commander In Afghanistan Accuses Russia Of Aiding Taliban

Russia is arming and supporting the Taliban. Ironic of you remember the history of the country.

 

[Scouse]

Russia is arming and supporting the Taliban. Ironic of you remember the history of the country.

Man, we've been fighting over that piece of land since the 1850s.

This feeds into my political loyalties being used up. Politicians the world over are shitheads. Obvs it's indicative of the state of the human race.

I wish we'd fix the stuff that's much more easily fixable - which does the greatest good for the greatest number - before we started fighting over turf

 

[Job]

Oh reary, Americans complaining about the Russkies aiding the Taliban.
Pardon me if I laugh, tens of thousands of Russian soldiers have gone to their deaths because the west supported the Taliban, and now we are paying for that pile of shit after arming those goat herders with the latest weapons.
WE are a bazillion times more guilty of fucking up that area, and if we'd have let the Russians finish them off, there would be no Al Queda or 9/11.
Watch the Bond movie..or Rambo 3, guess they're not too popular in Russia,

 

[Wij]

It's a bit more complicated than Rambo 3 makes out tbh :/

 

[Wij]

Relying on Russian Gas is baaaaaaad. They will use it as a weapon:

Russia retaliates against Ukraine's court win, shuts off natural gas supplies indefinitely | KyivPost

Nord Stream 2 is a terrible idea. Unfortunately Gerhard Schreoder has been gifted the chairmanship of Rosneft by Putin so his SPD chums are all up for it.

 

[Wij]

Relying on Russian Gas is baaaaaaad. They will use it as a weapon:

Russia retaliates against Ukraine's court win, shuts off natural gas supplies indefinitely | KyivPost

Nord Stream 2 is a terrible idea. Unfortunately Gerhard Schreoder has been gifted the chairmanship of Rosneft by Putin so his SPD chums are all up for it.

Further detail:

Why Nord Stream 2 Isn’t Just an Ordinary Pipeline

 

[Ctuchik]

oh yeah.
Anyway if people are talking about your info war you have lost..its whats getting unnoticed that's important.

Not quite. Russia is currently getting "found out" left right and center and it doesn't seem to bother them enough to stop. Because enough believe it's not happening despite the evidence.

 

[Job]

So now they are both recovering well..after we were told they would be brain damaged for life..oh and the copper was just slightly under the weather.
This is just adding unbelievable to farcical, they even managed to let their cat and two guinea pigs die of thirst while investigating the house.
Wtf..