Runemaster damage, just too much?

[Vindicator]

And why is that? They get both spec bolt and spec dd in same specline. RM's don't get that ^^

haha ye RM's get to debuff there Baseline nuke and hit for cap damage pretty much every nuke, considering you have 2 relics and dont often come up against 24% Cold resist's inconjuction with 25% Resist pierce . The soon 10% will be a slight drop in damage but im sure once those relics have been raided back it really wont make much of a difference. Im sure without relics the damage will still be quite respectable 2 for a caster only using a base line nuke ^^

Oh not forgetting that RM's get a spec AOE, as do wizards sure but they also get a highlevel gtae. So they can spec bolt from range, debuff nuke the shit out of you and gtae there brains out inside / outsite keeps without sacrificing anything. The fact wizards sort of have to spec earth as ther 2nd line up to 20 giving them a patheic gtae and the rest of the line is pretty useless at that low spec. This all while not even having to spec 50 in RC, leaving more points to dump into some lower lvl utility spells. Such as, low lvl nearsight which I think everybody will agree is uber even at that level, as Cabalist's utilitize the exact same thing

So come on Zebolt, it's not 2 much a strain nor strech for you to agree that Wizards need some utility as they simply dont get back the damage they spec for.

 

[Zebolt]

So come on Zebolt, it's not 2 much a strain nor strech for you to agree that Wizards need some utility as they simply dont get back the damage they spec for.

I can tell you that every RM in mid ain't RC specced. Infact most are dark specced. And why is that? Cuz' debuff+baseline nuke isn't the nuke ppl use to make insane dmg cuz' it don't. It's the dark specced dd, which has the same dmg as fire wiz dd. And with dark spec I don't got a spec bolt at all nor gtaoe. They get a dmg add instead which I would trade for a bolt anyday . So I don't rly agree.

And why even mention relics in the conversation? that can be changed back and forth and rly shouldn't be a tool to say that RM's is better cuz' mids got relics. Thats kinda obvious :>

 

[Vindicator]

I can tell you that every RM in mid ain't RC specced. Infact most are dark specced. And why is that? Cuz' debuff+baseline nuke isn't the nuke ppl use to make insane dmg cuz' it don't. It's the dark specced dd, which has the same dmg as fire wiz dd. And with dark spec I don't got a spec bolt at all nor gtaoe. They get a dmg add instead which I would trade for a bolt anyday . So I don't rly agree.

Well your in the right section with those kind of comments Zebolt :>.

Most are dark specced. Alright, lets take a look at the also very viable spec. They get a 219 Spec DD, Same as the wizard, an aoe DD with Debuff and a ghey dmg add. Now, here's comes the issue. With the left over points you get 26 in supp, meaning you get 10s pbt and an uber 35% Near sight \o/. While having that nice Confuse for Pets ^^.

The best a wizard can hope for in utility is gtae and aoe snare if they spec'd possibly one of the worst caster lines in the game, earth. So you get to either have an uber spec'd DD for those 'insane' dmg ,which you dont do soon unless its debuff, and yet still offer the grp 10s pbt and nearsight which has got to be the most uber part as it is so amazinly useful against casters / healers etc. The Light Chanter being the worst spec line I would have to say if you were wondering.

Thing is, I dont favor 1 Class over the other and I have no biased will of who I want to get love and who should be nerfed realm wise. I am looking at it fairly and concisely to see what each gets and whats fair. Your really showing your biased, seeing as you play a rr8 rm, its not a surprise but wouldnt expect a fair / balanced person to react like this. Take a step out of your class and try looking at it from a wizards point of view. Consider it for a moment, if for even 1 moment you see the reality of a wizards Potienal roles thy can play and how they work, then I would die a happy man

 

[Zebolt]

Ok, let me explain one thing further to you then. Many dark specced RM's like myself spec 50 dark for the extra kick in dmg and the best AoE. So what I got left over are 20 supp or 20 RC. Either I get confuse (which suck) and ns (35%) or first GToAE (which is nice to detecting stealthers seeing it allways hits or to interupt inside a room you can't see etc). So the way I see it wizards get if they spec 50 fire (don't know if ppl do that or stay at 47) can get 20 ice for low lvl pbaoe (better than gtaoe at detecting stealthers but no use in other ways rly) or low lvl dot (don't know the resistance rate on this but it's nice if it stick on a stealther since then he can't stealth while you get your speed back and catch him up) and GTAoE (same as RM) and AoE Root which probably gets resisted every time .

The way I see it is that RM's got the better 2nd line spec (NS) but Wizards got the edge in 1st spec (bolt).

Im not saying RM's are worse than Wizards cuz' I don't think they are but it's an equal class and I honestly don't see why ppl say RM's are better.

And plus you can wear robes so QQ

 

[Zebolt]

Thing is, I dont favor 1 Class over the other and I have no biased will of who I want to get love and who should be nerfed realm wise. I am looking at it fairly and concisely to see what each gets and whats fair. Your really showing your biased, seeing as you play a rr8 rm, its not a surprise but wouldnt expect a fair / balanced person to react like this.

I really don't think it's fair of you to judge me like this cuz' that's not true. Ofc I wouldn't want anyone to nerf my class but if they were to boost Wizards I wouldn't think it was bad at all. Funny for all who play wizards etc ^^

Im not the person who whines over silly things like my class is worse than yours but I do think I have the right to say my class isn't as good as ppl say sometimes. Ppl tend to exagerate and I do too sometimes ofc and problable the other way around too. So ok I take a while to look at RM's from a Wizards point of view and playstyle and I don't see much of a difference from my own play style, a few bolts more instead of NS's thats about it

 

[Roadie]

Im not the person who whines over silly things like my class is worse than yours but I do think I have the right to say my class isn't as good as ppl say sometimes. Ppl tend to exagerate and I do too sometimes ofc and problable the other way around too. So ok I take a while to look at RM's from a Wizards point of view and playstyle and I don't see much of a difference from my own play style, a few bolts more instead of NS's thats about it

I think your right alot of the RM whine should have been directed at the spell pierce and the fact that alb has a redundant 2ndry healing class for resists so take stupid dmg from nukes compared 2 hib/mid.

Having said this i would gladly exchange my spec bolt for 45% nearsight, caster speed and str+dex debuffs.....and the ability 2 be a sexeh dorf ofc

/edit: i think alb should have dorfs they are way to cool to be a mid class, you can have 1/2 ogres xD

 

[Zebolt]

Having said this i would gladly exchange my spec bolt for 45% nearsight, caster speed and str+dex debuffs.....and the ability 2 be a sexeh dorf ofc

I only got 35% NS tho, but yes it's handy. But caster speed? Wiz dd and RM dd is the same speed or do you mean something I don't undestand?

And btw.. to say that you want caster speed and dorf race with 50 starting dex doesn't make any sence to me tho

 

[Helme]

Think he meant the runspeed buff that wizard's dont get at all.

 

[Dumle]

Yes bolts vs casters are insane damage yes but I am talking about the base DD, I am a Cleric with chain armour so bolts dont do much damage.
If you look at the screenie a BD was also hitting me with his base nuke (not lifetap as that is around 100ish damage) and he is not even nuking me for 1/2 of the damage the runie does.

As you clearly see in the screenie the bd, probably specced somewhere alone 20-22 darkness is hitting you for less than a high Piety race with superb equipment specced 50 or 47 dark does with his specnuke, strange isnt it?

 

[Roadie]

And btw.. to say that you want caster speed and dorf race with 50 starting dex doesn't make any sence to me tho

caster speed as in movement speed chant....i like soloing
and dorf race for looks ofc!

 

[Ormorof]

funny how the whines are about the debuff+base dd when that does crappy damage

the BEST damage would be a dark runie teamed with a debuffer to do that kind of damage, otherwise its not really possible (pre-1.65 + MoM2 my debuff+dd capped at about 540 dmg, which isnt exactly great but since i soloed alot it was nice for utility )

played well runie is probably one of the best (if not the best) caster, however they have their shortcomings like all classes

now if you are going to whine about a class being underpowered forget wizards and think of the poor thanes! (ive been nuked for 700+ by lots of wizards but when was the last time you heard a whine about thanes nuking or hitting that hard???? )

 

[Roadie]

540dmg isnt exactly bad cabas are considered the strongest nukers in alb atm and this is what they use. I know it does slightly more cos if LT dmg buggy thing but they still only cap at around 580-620 post toa. I cant realy solo with my wiz as its basicly handing out rp's but when i play him in a group i normaly only nuke for 350-450. If i consistantly nuked for 500+ dmg on either my sorc (who has the top body dd) or my fire wiz i would be happy.

Also with debuff nukes it dosnt matter much if you come up against ppl with resist buffs cos you still do similar dmg.

 

[Zebolt]

cabas are considered the strongest nukers in alb atm

Just shows the intelligence of albs tbh

 

[Ormorof]

540dmg isnt exactly bad cabas are considered the strongest nukers in alb atm and this is what they use. I know it does slightly more cos if LT dmg buggy thing but they still only cap at around 580-620 post toa. I cant realy solo with my wiz as its basicly handing out rp's but when i play him in a group i normaly only nuke for 350-450. If i consistantly nuked for 500+ dmg on either my sorc (who has the top body dd) or my fire wiz i would be happy.

Also with debuff nukes it dosnt matter much if you come up against ppl with resist buffs cos you still do similar dmg.

read what i said, BEFORE nerf, that means i was hitting at cap damage every time i debuffed

after nerf it was more like 350-450, yet still i get hit (with 26% heat) for 600+ by wizards, due to all the insane toa bonuses available (10% damage, spell pierce etc etc etc), it was a pain in the ass tbh

i imagine a wizard nuking a debuffed target should hit for around the same (if not more due to higher int (kobbies start with 60, frosties with 75, avalonians with 80)

so quit whining, quit playing or just get on with it! its not the end of the world

 

[Vindicator]

Just shows the intelligence of albs tbh

Such a realm bigot


That show's his understanding of class's and fotm choice in alb. There is some validity to his claims.

Without a debuff a wizard will not do as much damage as a Self-debuffing Cabalist who also gains the added benefit of the broken Life tap Damage return formula.

While Debuffed, the Wizard will hit the hardest in alb with a single spec'd Fire DD at 219 delve.

Show's your understanding of his english and the mechanics involved if anything.

read what i said, BEFORE nerf, that means i was hitting at cap damage every time i debuffed

after nerf it was more like 350-450, yet still i get hit (with 26% heat) for 600+ by wizards, due to all the insane toa bonuses available (10% damage, spell pierce etc etc etc), it was a pain in the ass tbh

i imagine a wizard nuking a debuffed target should hit for around the same (if not more due to higher int (kobbies start with 60, frosties with 75, avalonians with 80)

so quit whining, quit playing or just get on with it! its not the end of the world

ppl were whining about the utility of the RM has over the wizard in secondary redundant lines. If somebody mentioned the debuff + nuke they were way off the track of the conversation or were using it as an added basis of yet more utility added in one line over another. As for being hit for 600 all the time, that would be with a Body sorc debuff. A fire wizz DD will generally cap out at about 795 with toa / mom etc bonuses. Against a debuffed target that wizz will
hit cap every nuke no problem.

 

[Danya]

Surely you'd use debuff+dd once then spam your normal DD? The debuff doesn't break on damage and last long enough to get a few nukes off. That gives you (typically) higher damage than a wizard.

 

[Zebolt]

Without a debuff a wizard will not do as much damage as a Self-debuffing Cabalist who also gains the added benefit of the broken Life tap Damage return formula.

While Debuffed, the Wizard will hit the hardest in alb with a single spec'd Fire DD at 219 delve.

As for being hit for 600 all the time, that would be with a Body sorc debuff. A fire wizz DD will generally cap out at about 795 with toa / mom etc bonuses. Against a debuffed target that wizz will hit cap every nuke no problem.

Surely you'd use debuff+dd once then spam your normal DD? The debuff doesn't break on damage and last long enough to get a few nukes off. That gives you (typically) higher damage than a wizard.

Ok lets take this all over again. The only reason RM's had an easy time to hit cap so often was cuz' of power relics. Mid had power relics for a long time and thats the main difference between what ppl say "RM's pwn fire wizz" even tho that has nothing to do with it. And to compare a debuff RM with a fire wizz is stupid as someone did earlier. Thats about as good as to compare a savage with a paladin and say both are hybrids, lets give paladins h2h so they can be as good as savages. If you wanna compare RM debuffer, compare it with alb debuffer aka cabbys.

 

[Vindicator]

Ok lets take this all over again. The only reason RM's had an easy time to hit cap so often was cuz' of power relics. Mid had power relics for a long time and thats the main difference between what ppl say "RM's pwn fire wizz" even tho that has nothing to do with it. And to compare a debuff RM with a fire wizz is stupid as someone did earlier. Thats about as good as to compare a savage with a paladin and say both are hybrids, lets give paladins h2h so they can be as good as savages. If you wanna compare RM debuffer, compare it with alb debuffer aka cabbys.

No people were talking abou the lack of utility the Wizard has in comparasion to the utility a RM offers. Who cares how they DD nuke or which does it better. Thats one aspect of a class of a possible spec and doesnt have any bearing on the discussion at hand, except to say that they both get a spec DD in particular specs ofc.

As for comparing a debuff rm with fire wizz. That chap was comparing a fire wiz with a Caba on a pure DD damage prespective. Hardly comparing anything as silly as a paladin with h2h although that would look uber . Savage in plate with arthurs sword above his head :<!

( Dmg add chant )

 

[Zebolt]

No people were talking abou the lack of utility the Wizard has in comparasion to the utility a RM offers.

Not rly, since the first post was about dmg, and most other posts in here has been about dmg output aswell. And there has only been talk about fire wiz so the only rm spec we can compare that with is dark rm, hence the spec dd. And the difference was speed and NS contra Bolt, so nothing rly huge diffrences. Im tired of the crap about wiz low utility when it's not rly a problem nor much worse than rm ><

If you don't like the class, don't play it? Noone else than you decided to roll it so qq ^^

I don't even know why I keep going with this I just get annoyed on the ignorance lvl of some ppl xD

 

[Vindicator]

Not rly, since the first post was about dmg, and most other posts in here has been about dmg output aswell. And there has only been talk about fire wiz so the only rm spec we can compare that with is dark rm, hence the spec dd. And the difference was speed and NS contra Bolt, so nothing rly huge diffrences. Im tired of the crap about wiz low utility when it's not rly a problem nor much worse than rm ><

If you don't like the class, don't play it? Noone else than you decided to roll it so qq ^^

I don't even know why I keep going with this I just get annoyed on the ignorance lvl of some ppl xD

Actually it was asking a question if the damamge on the RM class was too much, if you want to get particular about it. Then some other people talked of dmg done to them etc and 1 chap said wizards should get some added utility. Which you replied saying no they shouldnt as there line is just as good as RM's, there main line that is as you spoke of Spec DD and bold, while the whole issue was about utility not damage. It is already abundantly clear to everybody except an RM called Zebolt, that wizards do not trade damage for utility as other casters can still pump out very similar damage to them and yet still have alot more utility.

I mean the fact that mid only really has 2 casters < discount the BD for a moment> and thus has so many uber toys stuffed into 2 charcs while alb had to spread there utility accross 4 class's. That sort of proves the point it's self, its nobodys fault except Mythic and the team balance but to try to deny it is plain silly really.

Also dicussing problems certain class's have and / or possible fixies for them is fine. Is that really such a problem? I'd prefer alot more debate on class's and realms than all this qq and whine on the boards. Sure you may see the discussion as a veiled 'qq' but eh thats your hang up as talking and moaning are 2 different things. While hearing what you want to hear and hearing stuff you dont like are also 2 different things ;>

Couldnt agree me, Ignorance really is annoying. hello there Zebolt.

 

[Dumle]

So what is it that you want on the wizzie, I dont see a problem with that class at all.
He is a damagedealer, period...

You want a nearsight and PBT (PBT rocks in daoc atm, definetly, there so many tanks out)? sure put it in ice line and remove PBAE from it, infact remove PBAE completely as you want to be a like the runie, with PBAE removed its kinda like suppline for runie.
Then add NS and pbt in Ice.

You want debuff?
Sure put it in earth, then put another baseline bolt in earth as well, remove AE root and DoT from earth too while we are at it, AE CC on casters is crap anyway right? I mean as the Wizard has no possibility to spec for utility it has to be right?
Oh almost forgot, remove AE snare from that line too, cant have that.

And last, fireline, well remove bolts so its more like Runies coldline.

voila, you have a runie.


Instead of saying they are gimped try and find other ways to spec, perhaps you dont need to spec 50 in fire? go for 47 to get last DD then spec 25 Earth for some more stuff, and last in ice for a low PBAE to uncover stealthers.

Final spec would be...
47 Fire
25 Earth
8 Ice

You would get
219 Value DD
158 Value AE
273 Value bolt
239 Value bolt
162 Value bolt
92 Value GTAE
26 Sec AE Root
41x6 Value DoT (And with that acuity it would outdamage the shammys I guess)
and a low PBAE to uncover stealthers.

Looks like a very bad caster for NF, indeed it does.
3 bolts, altho not the top bolt in fire but you have to sacrifice something to get something. AE Root, top nuke, DoT and decent GTAE.

That is a nice caster for NF IMO, so please dont say that they are gimped, just use the classes possibilities, k?

 

[Zebolt]

It is already abundantly clear to everybody except an RM called Zebolt, that wizards do not trade damage for utility as other casters can still pump out very similar damage to them and yet still have alot more utility.

So what is it that you want on the wizzie, I dont see a problem with that class at all.

Indeed I am the only one ^^

Couldnt agree me, Ignorance really is annoying. hello there Zebolt.

I don't know but the one who says a 35% NS and a speed buff is much more utility than a spec bolt who does like 900 dmg on a caster shouldn't call the one who doesn't ignorant. But Im not good enough to understand the alb mind

 

[Zebolt]

PBT rocks in daoc atm, definetly, there so many tanks out?

Sure PBT is usefull, but imo it's not a possiblity for RM anymore. With the lowered dmg in several nerfs and the loss of power relics RM's as I see it can't afford to do that little dmg. Since the only pbt usefull it 6 sec RM have to spec 50 supp to anything to say dmg wise. And the fact that the dmg output will then be a bit lower (or just about the same) than SM/BD baseline and much slower is not something I would sacrifice for PBT. At least not in field combat which is the main thing I do atm. Could ofc be nice vs scouts in keep takes/defences but would still not be able to kill much with the suffer in speed.

 

[TiwiS]

the only good think about wizards right now is bolts (which misses a lot) or pbaoe, other then that they're utter crap.

at 1500 range a cabalist easily outdamages a wizard,

keep in mind the following things:
Wizard: 219 Dmg at 2.8 cast time best dex race: avalonian with 60 dex
Cabalist: 179 Dmg at 2.5 cast time best dex race: Inconnu 70 (also 15 more and 10 less int, but who cares about that last one, you'll cap anyway with debuff)
50% body debuff at 46 spirit spec

 

[Chronictank]

Wizard is now better than a rm simply because:
Wall of flame:
Insta-cast spell that drops a ward that pulses a 150 radius PBAE fire based for 15 seconds. Pulse is 400 points of damage every 3 seconds. Ward disappates if the wizard takes any action including moving.

bg+that on a stunned grp beats anything a rm can offer imo

 

[TiwiS]

Wizard is now better than a rm simply because:
Wall of flame:
Insta-cast spell that drops a ward that pulses a 150 radius PBAE fire based for 15 seconds. Pulse is 400 points of damage every 3 seconds. Ward disappates if the wizard takes any action including moving.

bg+that on a stunned grp beats anything a rm can offer imo

how are you going to stun a group with albion?
have 2 clerics spam baseline stun ?

not to mention the fact that PBAOE outdamages that without any difficulty?

 

[Ocalinn]

stunned grp

tell me how albs can stun a group

 

[Chronictank]

sorc mezes
unless clerics are retarded they can stun a grp (or at least its support)
only need 6 seconds duration.
This is why there are only a few good alb fg's most of you look for excuses before you look to solutions.
The OMG IM GIMPED doesnt work anymore, we all know alb can field a very good grp, and since NF is mostly flat land sorc is in its element. The reason u dont is simply cus of laziness

 

[Bubble]

gotta love the way excals think

I play a cleric when needed, if i ever use my shitty 2 second(hello 50% resists +25% CC reduction etc) baseline stun my Tanks yell at me


As for people getting nuked for 2k-
Its your own damm fault you wonder around in groups of 20+ in Oceanus rogs.
Zebolt nuked me for 700 3 times yesterday that was better damage than remish does to me

 

[Bubble]

sorc mezes
unless clerics are retarded they can stun a grp (or at least its support)
only need 6 seconds duration.
This is why there are only a few good alb fg's most of you look for excuses before you look to solutions.
The OMG IM GIMPED doesnt work anymore, we all know alb can field a very good grp, and since NF is mostly flat land sorc is in its element. The reason u dont is simply cus of laziness

Mid Prydwen needs you!