SPAM random annoying things

[Aoami]

Just started listening to the GoT audio books at work, and something has annoyed me about 5 lines into the 1st chapter. 'It was the 9th year of summer'. How does that work?

 

[Gwadien]

Just started listening to the GoT audio books at work, and something has annoyed me about 5 lines into the 1st chapter. 'It was the 9th year of summer'. How does that work?

'cos in Game of Thrones the seasons last for 'years' rather than a real season..

Winter is a scary season in GoT, and it lasts for a long time, so I suppose it's to make it easier for the reader to understand the length of their seasons, rather than saying oh, our years last for 251345 days.

 

[Aoami]

But that defeats all rules of Astronomy surely? If a planet revolves a start it has seasons, and he says in the same sentence that Bran is in his 7th year and we know the Bran is a young child, so he is suggseting that Years in the universe are the same as we know on Earth, but the season has lasted 9 years. IT DOESNT MAKE ANY SENSE.

 

[Raven]

Just wait until later when magic and stuff happens, it will blow your mind!

 

[Gwadien]

But that defeats all rules of Astronomy surely? If a planet revolves a start it has seasons, and he says in the same sentence that Bran is in his 7th year and we know the Bran is a young child, so he is suggseting that Years in the universe are the same as we know on Earth, but the season has lasted 9 years. IT DOESNT MAKE ANY SENSE.

Yeah, Bran was born in the 2nd year of summer?

 

[Raven]

Winter is coming.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Years are years(365 days and whatnot), season are many years. Astronomy and earth vs sun rotations aren't the same(or really relevanat) in a world of magical spirit pooping vaginas, undead frostybeards and dragons

 

[Gwadien]

Years are years(365 days and whatnot), season are many years. Astronomy and earth vs sun rotations aren't the same(or really relevanat) in a world of magical spirit pooping vaginas, undead frostybeards and dragons

Yeah Aoami stop looking into it you nooblet, just accept it!

 

[DaGaffer]

But that defeats all rules of Astronomy surely? If a planet revolves a start it has seasons, and he says in the same sentence that Bran is in his 7th year and we know the Bran is a young child, so he is suggseting that Years in the universe are the same as we know on Earth, but the season has lasted 9 years. IT DOESNT MAKE ANY SENSE.

George RR Martin has basically said there's no science behind the SOIAF universe; he wanted the seasons that way so he wrote it that way. However, if you did want to get scientific about it, you could have variable seasons with fixed years. If the planet had no axial tilt, the solar orbit was almost perfectly circular and the star was a bit more variable than ours, the seasons could vary in the way described in the book, e.g. no-one knows how long a season will last because its not directly related to the planet's orbit but rather almost entirely on the behaviour of the star.

 

[Raven]

Sort of like our long hot and cold periods that last years, sometimes decades that are dictated by solar activity but more extreme.

 

[Fweddy]

Maybe their planet has an unstable orbital axis so their seasons and years don't match up? Or maybe the author was making stuff up for the sake of a good story.

 

[Scouse]

But that defeats all rules of Astronomy surely? ... IT DOESNT MAKE ANY SENSE.

Well, read SCIENCE FICTION rather than FANTASY then m8


Edit: Or what everyone else above said

 

[Aoami]

George RR Martin has basically said there's no science behind the SOIAF universe; he wanted the seasons that way so he wrote it that way. However, if you did want to get scientific about it, you could have variable seasons with fixed years. If the planet had no axial tilt, the solar orbit was almost perfectly circular and the star was a bit more variable than ours, the seasons could vary in the way described in the book, e.g. no-one knows how long a season will last because its not directly related to the planet's orbit but rather almost entirely on the behaviour of the star.

Informative, BUT! If the planet had no axial tilt and the orbit was perfectly circular surely there would be no seasons at all, and it would always remain sunny or dark in the different hemispheres. How does solar activity effect it? (Moving on from the GoT bit, just general interest now if you know a bit about these things)

 

[sayward]

Oh God.

 

[Raven]

Tilt doesn't cause day/night, that's rotation. It causes seasons though because as a particular point on the earth tilts away from the sun it is colder. If there was no tilt then you would have the same temperature all year round, ie the equator where there isn't a lot of difference in the seasons.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equator

I suppose in the GOT universe you could have extreme but slow tilt which could also cause long periods of hot and cold.

 

[DaGaffer]

Informative, BUT! If the planet had no axial tilt and the orbit was perfectly circular surely there would be no seasons at all, and it would always remain sunny or dark in the different hemispheres. How does solar activity effect it? (Moving on from the GoT bit, just general interest now if you know a bit about these things)

No it wouldn't. The planet would still rotate (I think you're thinking of the rotation at right angles to the sun), it just means the sun does all the weather generating work instead of the combination of elliptical orbit, axial tilt and sun that we have.

 

[Aoami]

Tilt doesn't cause day/night, that's rotation. It causes seasons though because as a particular point on the earth tilts away from the sun it is colder. If there was no tilt then you would have the same temperature all year round, ie the equator where there isn't a lot of difference in the seasons.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equator

I suppose in the GOT universe you could have extreme but slow tilt which could also cause long periods of hot and cold.

Yeah i realised i confused the 2 things there. Quite a difficult thing to get the head round.

 

[Zenith]

It's in the fantasy genre. If you find THIS fucked up, you're in for a rough ride.

 

[TdC]

winter was coming, but then it took an arrow to the knee

 

[Aoami]

It's in the fantasy genre. If you find THIS fucked up, you're in for a rough ride.

Obviously I don't find it fucked up, I find it lazy. People are hailing this series as a great work, but a true great like Tolkein would've explained it properly.

Also, I still think my point is perfectly valid. People have put forth explanations and i'm probably inclined to agree with those points. No need for facepalming and saying things like 'you don't understand fantasy'.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Tolkien would've explained how the sun rises and sets for 57 pages before even getting to the part where he mentions the lands name

 

[rynnor]

Informative, BUT! If the planet had no axial tilt and the orbit was perfectly circular surely there would be no seasons at all, and it would always remain sunny or dark in the different hemispheres. How does solar activity effect it? (Moving on from the GoT bit, just general interest now if you know a bit about these things)

Increased solar output (on the right wavelengths) would warm the planet. Interestingly though the earth has had long periods of no discernible seasons - when its either been hot everywhere (the cretaceous) or Ice everywhere like in the 'Snowball Earth' scenarios. You only get seasons as we know it for a rather narrow temperature range.

Edit - you can also get wintery conditions that last for years after a major volcanic eruption.

 

[Punishment]

The best science fiction writers are clueless to how science actually works and thats why they are so creative

 

[rynnor]

The best science fiction writers are clueless to how science actually works and thats why they are so creative

I disagree pretty much completely

I like classic golden age sci fi though which tends to be based on great knowledge of science. Sci fi isnt fantasy - if its completely ungrounded from reality I would argue that its not Sci fi.

 

[Cadelin]

The best science fiction writers are clueless to how science actually works and thats why they are so creative

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_Asimov

 

[TdC]

heh. Asimov. last time I read him I was 18 or so. time to start again.

 

[Lamp]

May have to re-read Peter Hamilton

(currently re-reading Homer's Odyssey. If you've not read the Odyssey and the Iliad, you're missing out. E.V. Rieu's translation is spectacular)

 

[Lamp]

Getting old: I got up to do something 5 minutes ago, and immediately forgot what it was. Cretin.
So annoying.

 

[Aoami]

Never studied the Iliad unfortunately, but got so much love for the Odyssey

 

[TdC]

annoying: I find myself hating most humans around me and most obstacles in my path. Conclusion: I'm coming down with a cold :-(