Film Prometheus

[opticle]

Regarding seeding and related matters...

Spoiler

A fair few people might missing the point, the engineers seeded our planet millions of years ago and they were not setting out to destroy us at all. When watching the holograms did you not notice David select Earth as the destination? He said he wanted to destroy his creators and he knew that the ship was a science vessel carrying some form of DNA/RNA catalyst so he decided to target earth and then let Weyland fly it back to Earth to wipe us out. What he didn't forsee was the Engineers reaction to him being a robot in the form of man, it was an insult to the creation of mankind and he reacted as such plus we have no idea what David actually said to the Engineer. It may well have been 'your momma is a cumsucking bitch and we are going to wipe you out!' What happens next is that Weyland orders the security dude to attack, after that the Engineer sees us as a pure threat and he works to remove that threat.

Everyone is assuming that the Engineers want to wipe us out but I am not sure that is the case at all.

As for the aliens, I think we can assume that thier creation is an accident of some sort just as when those worms are covered in the catalyst when the atmosphere in the chamber changes and the vases start to release the catalyst. The worms turn do not turn into facehuggers as many people think but are most likely where the original dna came from to create the species. My thougts are that the facehugger comes from Holloway impregnating Shaw after he becomes infected and the result of that conception is a first generation facehugger which is in effect a not fully developed alien because she aborted it before full gestation occured. When the facehugger attaches to the Engineer what results is a first generation alien gestating inside the Engineer, that would explain the look of the alien that emerges.

Now here is my theory for what happens next. Shaw escapes the planet by taking the command chair, she goes in search of the engineers but unknown to her she is infact still infected and another facehugger is growing inside of her. The ship in the original Alien film is infact the ship she escaped on and the marines found, it is Shaw inside the suit and she was killed when the alien emerged. Shaw is in effect the mother of the Alien species, her offspring then lays facehugger eggs all over the ship and when the marines comes looking 29 years later it all starts to go tits up...

Feel free to contribute or rip my ideas apart!

Spoiler

I like that a lot Chodax..n1 and tbh I completely missed the fact that the original worm things were mutated versions of the tiny worms you see a show of to start with.. now I feel stupid.. I just presumed they were what was kicking about that wiped out the original aliens - though that doesn't make sense as they're pretty weedy.

.. But then, what killed the Engineers originally there ? And why were they running to the catalyst room ?

Any ideas for my star pattern question ?

 

[Punishment]

Nice theory Chodax

 

[cHodAX]

Spoiler

I like that a lot Chodax..n1 and tbh I completely missed the fact that the original worm things were mutated versions of the tiny worms you see a show of to start with.. now I feel stupid.. I just presumed they were what was kicking about that wiped out the original aliens - though that doesn't make sense as they're pretty weedy.

.. But then, what killed the Engineers originally there ? And why were they running to the catalyst room ?

Any ideas for my star pattern question ?

Ok...

Spoiler

The worms have mutated before maybe when the catalyst was released for the first time, that would make sense because we see a pile of Engineer corpses. Those aliens that emerged either left the planet somehow, maybe on an Engineer ship that was trying to escape? Or maybe as it was a 2000 year gap and they had no food source they died off as did the eggs? We definately did not explore the entire ship and caverns, nevermind the other one.

The more I think about it the more certain I am, the engineers are a benevolant species and as Deebs stated they terraform and seed planets. It makes no sense to wipe out any species unless they are a total threat to the survival of your own.

 

[TdC]

ooo I like that Cho :-D

 

[cHodAX]

Joined up thinking Chodax style, more than a few kinks in it though!

 

[Shagrat]

yep like your thinking Cho, all makes sense.

 

[Yaka]

preety sure chodax has nailed it. but the film seems to be heavily edited. cant wait for the dirs cut when they release it

 

[cHodAX]

preety sure chodax has nailed it. but the film seems to be heavily edited. cant wait for the dirs cut when they release it

Spot on, said exactly the same myself coming out of the cinema, there is definately a few missing scenes.

 

[Wazzerphuk]

I didn't really get that impression much at all. I'll go through and read all the spoilers you lot posted and return later.

Thought the film itself was cracking, really pleased with it.

 

[Wazzerphuk]

Right, here's my responses:

Spoiler

TdC:

if Engineers have been coming to Earth for so long to check on the results of their seeding work, if it is in fact "seeding work" that occurred in the first scene, that peoples up to the Mayan age knew about it...why didn't any other civilizations know about them after the Mayans?

COS THEY FUCKING DIED 2000 YEARS AGO. PAY ATTENTION.

why did Shaw's squid-baby thing grow to Engineer-beating size so quickly?

WE ALREADY KNOW THEY GROW QUICK, ALIEN - IN A FEW HOURS IT GOES FROM TINY TO MIDDLE TO MONSTER AFTER A DAY OR TWO

why bang on so much about Shaw's crucifix?

HE'S AN ANDROID SO DOESN'T 'GET' FAITH. IT'S NOT LOGICAL. IT'S A HUMAN TRAIT.

the squidlet/facehugger ends up not being dead and seems to enjoy growing with out any apparent means to do so I must say...and which goes on to face rapes the Engineer producing a very large and rather pointy headed proto-alien.....hmmmmkay!

AGAIN THEY GROW FAST. AND THE PROTO ALIEN THAT COMES OUT HAD THE JAW STRUCTURE OF A QUEEN, HENCE WHY SHE WAS SUCH A LARGE BIRTH COMPARED TO ALL THE OTHER BIRTHS.

opticle:

That would make us a pretty shit bioweapon compared to the ones they already had :X

WE COULD BE A FAILED GENETIC WEAPON, ALL THE INTELLIGENCE BUT NONE OF THE STRENGTH. NEEDS TO BE KILLED OFF. POSSIBILITY.

cHodAX:

What he didn't forsee was the Engineers reaction to him being a robot in the form of man, it was an insult to the creation of mankind and he reacted as such plus we have no idea what David actually said to the Engineer.

YEP, I CONSIDERED THAT HE DETECTED HIS ANDROID STATE. PERHAPS THEN ATTACKING THE OTHERS THINKING THEY ARE ALSO THE SAME.

As for the aliens, I think we can assume that thier creation is an accident of some sort just as when those worms are covered in the catalyst when the atmosphere in the chamber changes and the vases start to release the catalyst. The worms turn do not turn into facehuggers as many people think but are most likely where the original dna came from to create the species. My thougts are that the facehugger comes from Holloway impregnating Shaw after he becomes infected and the result of that conception is a first generation facehugger which is in effect a not fully developed alien because she aborted it before full gestation occured. When the facehugger attaches to the Engineer what results is a first generation alien gestating inside the Engineer, that would explain the look of the alien that emerges.

PRETTY CLOSE IN AGREEMENT. AS I RESPONDED TO TDC THE ALIEN TO COME OUT OF THE ENGINEER LOOKS LIKE AN EARLY QUEEN. WE KNOW THEY GROW BIGGER, QUICKER AND MORE EXTREME AND IT WAS ALREADY MASSIVE. IT'S POSSIBLE THAT THESE ARE ALL JUST INDIVIDUAL STAGES OF THE ALIEN LIFECYCLE AS A WHOLE BUT IT DOES SEEM LIKE THERE IS A CONVERGENCE OF DNA AS THE ALIEN STATES BECOME MORE HUMANOID EACH TIME (THE ALIEN WE SEE IN ALIEN IS VERY HUMANOID).

Conclusion: Tdc = noob

 

[Calaen]

Watched this last night, and enjoyed it.

Spoiler

I blame David!!!!!

He didn't seem to care about the crew at all, from the second they started exploring, pressing buttons, opening doors, touching things he shouldn't have. Cutting the feed to the ship while he was investigating. And more importantly the deliberate infection of Holloway. The ridiculed him and he hated it, so perhaps Weyland created something that was capable of some form of emotion? His comment "That being said, doesn't everyone want their parents dead?" to Shaw kinda says it all to me.

I have no idea why the Engineer turned on them, it could have been what David said? could have been a host of other things. I'm still unsure about the whole travelling to earth to wipe it out thing, but I hope it will be answered in the future.

But I'm pretty sure we've witnessed the birth of the Alien race!!

 

[Wazzerphuk]

Watched this last night, and enjoyed it.

Spoiler

I blame David!!!!!

He didn't seem to care about the crew at all, from the second they started exploring, pressing buttons, opening doors, touching things he shouldn't have. Cutting the feed to the ship while he was investigating. And more importantly the deliberate infection of Holloway. The ridiculed him and he hated it, so perhaps Weyland created something that was capable of some form of emotion? His comment "That being said, doesn't everyone want their parents dead?" to Shaw kinda says it all to me.

I have no idea why the Engineer turned on them, it could have been what David said? could have been a host of other things. I'm still unsure about the whole travelling to earth to wipe it out thing, but I hope it will be answered in the future.

But I'm pretty sure we've witnessed the birth of the Alien race!!

Spoiler

I'm not sure. Like in the first Alien, the android's main objectives are 1) Mission objective above all else and 2) Look after the crew. All the things you state first are him carrying out his objectives (don't forget this is the "company" that has sent him). As soon as he can't carry out his objectives he goes beyond the call to help at the end, and you seem to have forgotten the scene where he uses the pulley system to save them from the storm.

"That being said, doesn't everyone want their parents dead?" is a very basic Freudian piece of pschology and as we know from the other films the androids do have a psychological detection system in them - hence why he asks questions of religion and faith and things his own logic doesn't handle to understand the people to offer them the best protection. You could even say he watches peoples dreams (another basic Freudian analysis) to aid his psychological profiling.

Of course having said that we know that until Bishop is created, the andriods are susceptible to 'malfunction'. So it's up in the air whether or not David is 'good' or 'bad'.

 

[cHodAX]

Spoiler

I'm not sure. Like in the first Alien, the android's main objectives are 1) Mission objective above all else and 2) Look after the crew. All the things you state first are him carrying out his objectives (don't forget this is the "company" that has sent him). As soon as he can't carry out his objectives he goes beyond the call to help at the end, and you seem to have forgotten the scene where he uses the pulley system to save them from the storm.

"That being said, doesn't everyone want their parents dead?" is a very basic Freudian piece of pschology and as we know from the other films the androids do have a psychological detection system in them - hence why he asks questions of religion and faith and things his own logic doesn't handle to understand the people to offer them the best protection. You could even say he watches peoples dreams (another basic Freudian analysis) to aid his psychological profiling.

Of course having said that we know that until Bishop is created, the andriods are susceptible to 'malfunction'. So it's up in the air whether or not David is 'good' or 'bad'.

Spoiler

If he isn't bad then we have to ask why was he allowing the alien to grow inside Shaw? Why did he not inform Wayland, the captain or anyone else on the ship? When they first enter the alien building he reads the text on the walls and I have a feeling that may well explain everything that follows. As for saving Shaw and Holloway, I believe he knows that Holloway is already infected and he wants to see the outcome, or that by viewing Shaw's dreams for 2 years he has developed somekind of attachment to her.

 

[Calaen]

Spoiler

If he isn't bad then we have to ask why was he allowing the alien to grow inside Shaw? Why did he not inform Wayland, the captain or anyone else on the ship? When they first enter the alien building he reads the text on the walls and I have a feeling that may well explain everything that follows. As for saving Shaw and Holloway, I believe he knows that Holloway is already infected and he wants to see the outcome, or that by viewing Shaw's dreams for 2 years he has developed somekind of attachment to her.

Spoiler

He was the one responsible for infecting Holloway with the spiked drink. Obviously we don't really know what he was programmed to do, it just seems that whatever caused his behaviour is the root cause.

 

[Wazzerphuk]

Spoiler

If he isn't bad then we have to ask why was he allowing the alien to grow inside Shaw? Why did he not inform Wayland, the captain or anyone else on the ship? When they first enter the alien building he reads the text on the walls and I have a feeling that may well explain everything that follows. As for saving Shaw and Holloway, I believe he knows that Holloway is already infected and he wants to see the outcome, or that by viewing Shaw's dreams for 2 years he has developed somekind of attachment to her.

Spoiler

They were his orders. Remember the company always want the specimen returned hom for their own evil bidding. If the way of getting that specimen home is utilising his language skills to decipher and figure out how to do it, so be it. He seemed to get orders or be in communication in that helmet a couple of times. Obviously this is all conjecture but it's worth being cautious with and not assertive.

 

[Calaen]

Spoiler

I'm not sure. Like in the first Alien, the android's main objectives are 1) Mission objective above all else and 2) Look after the crew. All the things you state first are him carrying out his objectives (don't forget this is the "company" that has sent him). As soon as he can't carry out his objectives he goes beyond the call to help at the end, and you seem to have forgotten the scene where he uses the pulley system to save them from the storm.

"That being said, doesn't everyone want their parents dead?" is a very basic Freudian piece of pschology and as we know from the other films the androids do have a psychological detection system in them - hence why he asks questions of religion and faith and things his own logic doesn't handle to understand the people to offer them the best protection. You could even say he watches peoples dreams (another basic Freudian analysis) to aid his psychological profiling.

Of course having said that we know that until Bishop is created, the andriods are susceptible to 'malfunction'. So it's up in the air whether or not David is 'good' or 'bad'.

Spoiler

I was thinking he had been watching Vickers during her statis, as it was fairly clear that she wanted her father to just die and maybe picked it up from there. His behaviour is certainly strange.

 

[Wazzerphuk]

Spoiler

I was thinking he had been watching Vickers during her statis, as it was fairly clear that she wanted her father to just die and maybe picked it up from there. His behaviour is certainly strange.

Spoiler

Of course it seems strange. HE'S NOT HUMAN.

 

[Calaen]

Spoiler

They were his orders. Remember the company always want the specimen returned hom for their own evil bidding. If the way of getting that specimen home is utilising his language skills to decipher and figure out how to do it, so be it. He seemed to get orders or be in communication in that helmet a couple of times. Obviously this is all conjecture but it's worth being cautious with and not assertive.

Spoiler

But you are right the company always wants something, I had assumed he was in communication with Weyland via his helmet, hence Vickers being upset when he wouldn't pass on the message.

 

[Wazzerphuk]

Spoiler

But you are right the company always wants something, I had assumed he was in communication with Weyland via his helmet, hence Vickers being upset when he wouldn't pass on the message.

Spoiler

Yes, and given that he was in stasis on the ship it means they either have tech to talk to those in stasis (unlikely) or he's talking to someone we haven't seen at all, who would have been giving the orders to keep everyone else ignorant and bring back specimens.

 

[Ch3tan]

Spoiler

Before David did the infecting, he was told by Weyland via the helmet, to "accelerate things".

I broadly agree with some of cho's theories, they fit a lot of my own thoughts. I disagree on the motivations of the engineers and David somewhat though. Will post my thoughts later.

edit// as for David saving them during the storm, do not forget that they had the Engineers head with them. It might not have been their lives he was saving, more the head and the expertise to examine it.

 

[Wazzerphuk]

Spoiler

Before David did the infecting, he was told by Weyland via the helmet, to "accelerate things".

I broadly agree with some of cho's theories, they fit a lot of my own thoughts. I disagree on the motivations of the engineers and David somewhat though. Will post my thoughts later.

Spoiler

Why would he be talking to Weyland via a helmet when he's on the same ship?

 

[Ch3tan]

Spoiler

Yes, and given that he was in stasis on the ship it means they either have tech to talk to those in stasis (unlikely) or he's talking to someone we haven't seen at all, who would have been giving the orders to keep everyone else ignorant and bring back specimens.

Spoiler

I thought it was fairly obivous he was talking to the old man.

 

[Wazzerphuk]

Spoiler

I thought it was fairly obivous he was talking to the old man.

Spoiler

Why would he need to use a communication helmet? Surely it's for an outside source? Unless I missed something.

 

[Ch3tan]

Spoiler

Why would he be talking to Weyland via a helmet when he's on the same ship?

Spoiler

Hmm.... did he only use his hand to talk to Weyland the first time? Or did he also use the helmet?

 

[Calaen]

Spoiler

Yes, and given that he was in stasis on the ship it means they either have tech to talk to those in stasis (unlikely) or he's talking to someone we haven't seen at all, who would have been giving the orders to keep everyone else ignorant and bring back specimens.

Spoiler

I'm having difficulty believing he was talking to anyone else, before they entered the atmosphere communications back to earth were down. Vickers clearly knew Weyland was on the ship, hence the reason she said "what did he say" to David when she caught him communicating. She also covered the everyone back on earth will be fighting for control of Weyland Corp while he's away. So I can't see it being anyone that wasn't on board. I believe Weyland will have woken from stasis along with the others, and I believe the 'accelerate things' comment that Ch3t mentions is Weyland knowing he hasn't got long left.

 

[Wazzerphuk]

Spoiler

I'm having difficulty believing he was talking to anyone else, before they entered the atmosphere communications back to earth were down. Vickers clearly knew Weyland was on the ship, hence the reason she said "what did he say" to David when she caught him communicating. She also covered the everyone back on earth will be fighting for control of Weyland Corp while he's away. So I can't see it being anyone that wasn't on board. I believe Weyland will have woken from stasis along with the others, and I believe the 'accelerate things' comment that Ch3t mentions is Weyland knowing he hasn't got long left.

Spoiler

But that still doesn't explain why he's using a communication helmet to talk to him if he's woken from stasis with everyone else like you say. If it is him he's talking to.

 

[Calaen]

Spoiler

Hmm.... did he only use his hand to talk to Weyland the first time? Or did he also use the helmet?

Spoiler

His back was turned the second time wasn't it?, anyway I suspect it was easier to talk like that than risk him being discovered too early.

 

[Calaen]

Spoiler

But that still doesn't explain why he's using a communication helmet to talk to him if he's woken from stasis with everyone else like you say. If it is him he's talking to.

Spoiler

I suspect it was easier to talk like that than risk him being discovered too early.

 

[Wazzerphuk]

Spoiler

I suspect it was easier to talk like that than risk him being discovered too early.

Spoiler

He wouldn't have been discovered though, when out of stasis he lived in the emergency ship, as the medbay was configured for him and him alone. No-one else was going there as they all thought they were Mother's quarters.

 

[Wazzerphuk]

You know this film is good when I'm divulging in discussions like these. Very rare you want to think and talk about ideas for a film this much. Reminds me a little bit of all the lengthy discussions after the first Matrix film, wondering where it's going/what the gaps are. Only in a much more satisfying manner.