Politics POLL: Brexit Withdrawal Agreement

Discussion in 'The Front Room' started by Wij, Nov 14, 2018.

If you were an MP would you vote for or against it?

  1. FOR

  2. AGAINST

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. Job

    Job TWAT and FH Object of Ridicule

    If Ireland wants a border..let them on their side..ours will be open and the queues will soon have business kicking down the politicians doors.
     
  2. Bodhi

    Bodhi FH is my second home

    Even better than that, Little Leo suggested if there was No Deal he'd be looking to put troops along the border! Sounds as credible as his threat to stop the UK having access to Irish Airspace (even though its enforced by the RAF).

    There's only one side ratcheting up tensions along the border, and it ain't us.
     
  3. Ormorof

    Ormorof FH is my second home

    Under WTO rules you would then need to have no customs border at any border
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. Scouse

    Scouse HERO! FH Subscriber

    Yep. Boss was on a brexit call today at work.

    Other banks doing similar.

    Of course, brexiters who said it wouldn't happen will now say it doesn't matter...
     
    • Facepalm Facepalm x 1
  5. Wij

    Wij I am a FH squatter FH Subscriber

    It’s all project fear until it becomes what people knew they were voting for :)
     
  6. Scouse

    Scouse HERO! FH Subscriber

    Facepalm off @Embattle. I can only surmise that it's in support of what I (and everyone else, including the banks) have been saying all along. That banks are moving their shit (and staff) offshore.

    Not the chump-change of the manufacturing industries either. It's the proper, serious, british service-industries now.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. DaGaffer

    DaGaffer Down With That Sorta Thing

    I think Barclays have been getting ready since the minute Article 50 was enabled; they've just opened a fancy new office here but its their own purpose built setup; most of the companies coming over at the moment are scrambling around for whatever space they can find that's already here; great time to be in commercial property in Dublin, and I'm hearing a LOT more English accents on the train in the morning.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  8. Gwadien

    Gwadien Uneducated Northern Cretin

  9. Scouse

    Scouse HERO! FH Subscriber

    We're moving loads of assets to France and Amsterdam. Got entities there anyway but will ramp up staff there too.

    French are understandably delighted.

    @Embattle shoild facepalm me for that, of course :)
     
  10. Embattle

    Embattle FH is my second home

    You mean the ones you and the other champagne liberals/socialists didn't tend to like in the first place.

    I've avoided this topic and most Brexit news as much as possible recently because quite frankly it makes me very angry and in turn I never feel that well once I've read any of it because as highlighted in this very topic again and again remainers come across as arrogant, deluded, condescending, belittling, hypocritical, self-righteous, etc, etc. although not exclusive to remainers they've definitely cornered the market since losing the vote. Leave has done little to actually change leavers minds apart from keep playing the fear card which has naturally scared some back under the cover although undoubtedly not changed there opinion about the EU and at the same time leavers have reinforced the original reason they voted leave.

    In the end the outcome will decide whether I believe my vote was taken for granted with the possibility of not voting at all or voting for people/groups I really dislike, although I guess the voting for people/groups I really dislike could include any of them.

    Anyway toodles I'll leave you splashing around in your swamp while you foam at the mouth looking at the moon on this topic.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  11. Scouse

    Scouse HERO! FH Subscriber

    @Embattle - it makes no difference whether I like the banks. I've got no control over capitalism.

    However, I can absolutely understand that the major bits of our economy (services) moving their assets to France isn't good for the UK. - and that is something you've not even bothered to address in your rant above - you've just moaned about leavers and remainers - totally off-topic.

    You facepalm like mad but it's now quite clear that the reason you don't actually enter the debate is that *you've nothing to say*.

    Banks are moving assets offshore. Like em or not that's a *huge* deal. And all you've got is facepalms and rage.
     
  12. DaGaffer

    DaGaffer Down With That Sorta Thing

    You're not very clear on the whole "how borders work" thing are you? Or WTO MFN rules, or the Good Friday Agreement, or pretty much anything.

    Absolutely no-one apart from a few DUP lunatics wants a border in Ireland; but that's not the same as having to put one up in the case of no deal because if they don't it breaks the integrity of the EU's customs union. Ireland would have to break the GFA to protect the EU internal market. In addition the UK would also have to close the border to protect whatever future trading relationships it wants to make with other countries; if it doesn't everyone in the world gets tarriff-free access to the UK.

    This is why the Irish government have been saying one thing for two years (we won't have a border) but now have to admit there would be one, because no-one really believed the British political system was this fucked up.

    The likes of the ERG won't accept the backstop because they claim it's an EU trap to keep the UK in the Customs Union forever, but these are the same people who also claim that a frictionless solution is a solveable problem, which if true, means the backstop would never be enacted. The truth is, they know there isn't a technical solution and probably never will be, and the Irish border and winding back 20 years of peace is a price they are more than willing to pay. A hard border might even resolve their Irish problem altogether if it stimulates an independence referendum; bin off a loss-making division of UK inc.
     
  13. Gwadien

    Gwadien Uneducated Northern Cretin

    I think it's the lack of accountability that annoys me.

    IF this fucks up big time, Leavers will blame immigrants, Labour and the EU, not their own choice, not accepting that their view point was skewered by lies and deceit, which should cause shockwaves and actually cause proper damage to the political elite, rather than pampering to them by accident whilst pretending to attack them.

    Whilst the people that should be held accountable will still be OK with their millions in the banks and all the opportunities for them to exploit.

    People are losing their jobs due to the mess we've got ourselves into, even prominent Leave campaigners who previously said everything will be dandy are saying things might be a bit shit.

    I suspect in 3 months time the facepalms will stop and so will the replies.
     
  14. Bodhi

    Bodhi FH is my second home

    • Facepalm Facepalm x 1
  15. Scouse

    Scouse HERO! FH Subscriber

    175 billion of 1.13 trillion is a fuck of a load of assets in percentage terms moving offshore.

    My bank has seen many redundancies due to brexit already and lots of new French job creation. So yes, whilst the banks will still operate here this is about real money leaving, and real jobs going.

    Or don't you care about the fact that brexit has definitely lead to job losses - before it's even happened? Bit callous of you not to give a shit about the thousands of people who are already on their arse...
     
  16. DaGaffer

    DaGaffer Down With That Sorta Thing

    15% of their asset base, in one go, yeah, peanuts. Apply 15% shrinkage across the rest of UK investment bank sector and see what that does for the economy. Nb. Barclays have 50k workers in the UK in total. A good 60% will be in retail banking.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. Bodhi

    Bodhi FH is my second home

    It's just over 10%. If that's all they think they need for operations that have to be conducted from the EU, then it doesn't strike me that they think the EU is a massive market for them. Especially as they've only added 150 people to an existing subsidiary of Barclays. It's not clear if they are new recruits or have moved across from London - or even if they're permanently based there.

    Still fairly small fry compared to 4 years ago, when they shed 8,000 jobs as part of restructuring. I don't recall your crocodile tears then? Ah yes, bankers were the bad guys then.
     
    • Facepalm Facepalm x 1
  18. Gwadien

    Gwadien Uneducated Northern Cretin

  19. Bodhi

    Bodhi FH is my second home

    Wow. The NYT has always had some "interesting" views about Brexit and Europe, but that's impressively misguided. Seems to spend an awful lot of time claiming now we are into the process no one else is thinking of leaving, yet they seem to have ignored quite a large amount of people marching around France at the weekends in high-vis jackets who have listed "Frexit" as one of their demands.

    And at the same time Germany is teetering on the brink of recession, Italy has already gone their but are too busy biting their thumbs at the EU to notice, Spain are still putting political opponents in jail, Belgium and Sweden are struggling to form a government and Poland and Hungary are continuing to be Poland and Hungary. Portugal is doing well however, as are Ireland (even though they're having issues with their biggest trading partner and could do with their President winding his neck in occasionally), but if you've got to a situation where the most stable countries in the block are Ireland and Portugal, something somewhere has gone a bit tits up.

    In the mean time we've had a vote or two, Parliament have had a few more on our behalf, and someone in the aforementioned Parliament nicked a mace and ran off with it. All whilst the economy was steadily growing and more people were entering the workforce.
     
  20. Scouse

    Scouse HERO! FH Subscriber

    Still harping on that I "like" the banks eh? Can't let your bullshit go can you. Must be life-changingly hard not to be able to hold two separate things in your mind at the same time.

    I did complain when they were shedding staff. I've worked at Barclays and I know exactly the pain that that causes. And I know people at Lloyds, HSBC, First Direct and M&S Bank who've suffered exactly the same.

    And they've been shedding staff at an increased rate due to Brexit. And pulling funding in the UK and strengthening elsewhere directly because of brexit long before these most recent announcements.

    As I've been saying for over 12 months now. Because I work in that sort of function so I have direct experience of it.

    But you thought it was crap then too. Must be the pollution in stoke lowering IQ.


    Oh. and:
    15.49% - as @DaGaffer mentioned in the post directly above.

    And 15% of a fuckton (trillion) isn't chump change like your manufacturing shite. 175 billion worth of assets is absolutely huge. From *one* Bank.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2019
    • Facepalm Facepalm x 1
  21. DaGaffer

    DaGaffer Down With That Sorta Thing

    Its 15%. As it happens EY are estimating about 10% of all UK banking assets will leave by March (€800bn) and ze Germans think it will be more, with 750-800bn going to Frankfurt alone. Time will tell.

    The Barclays in Dublin is a mixed blessing; it's not creating many jobs (about 2/3 will be relocated, whilst at the same time it will be easily the biggest bank in Ireland by value. It's that kind of thing that starts to have a distorting effect on the GDP of a small country, making us look richer than we actually are, which can have odd political effects.

    As for all the other EU stuff you were talking about...all valid, but still better than being more economically isolated than Mauritania through the failures of the British political class. I've reconciled myself to Brexit a long time ago, what I don't understand is how even the most ardent Brexiteer thinks this shitshow is an acceptable (lol) "strategy".
     
  22. Ormorof

    Ormorof FH is my second home

    Irish history shows that british politicians are not to be trusted when it comes to irish borders ;)

    And irish president looks like he can barely find his shoes in the morninv let alone make statements on brexit, the PM on other hand is a younger guy called Leo ;) he is also not super popular atm due to internal policies so some brit bashing in media ("city that defied an empire" and all that crap) probably does him good at home
     
  23. Job

    Job TWAT and FH Object of Ridicule

    The EU are getting nervous...especially the Germans.
    Time for a back down
     
  24. Scouse

    Scouse HERO! FH Subscriber

    What about?
     
  25. Wij

    Wij I am a FH squatter FH Subscriber

    Sure. Let me know when that happens.
     
  26. caLLous

    caLLous I am a FH squatter FH Subscriber

    Yes there are problems around Europe but the gilets jaunes protests have long since been hijacked by "extremists" who say whatever they think will get a rise out of the government (and surprise surprise, Marine Le Pen and other right-wing politicians have been stoking the flames). There are genuine protesters with genuine grievances, but France's relationship with the EU isn't one of them.

    One of the founders of the original cause (which started perfectly legitimately and peacefully about fuel tax and then became about living costs in general and how out of touch with the people Macron was) received death threats when, after Macron's address at the start of December, she suggested that the protests should stop and that they should talk to the government.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2019
  27. Jupitus

    Jupitus Old and short, no wonder I'm grumpy! Staff member Moderator FH Subscriber

    All of you - I don't mind a good debate, but please can we try to cut down on personal attacks?

    Thanks.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1

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