Politics POLL: Brexit Withdrawal Agreement

[Ormorof]

You don't keep having referendums until you get the answer you want. The vote was cast, counted and now has to be actioned. Once that is done by all means have another referendum on rejoining the EU.

Or avoid the pain/cost and do a final check?

Even my pc asks "are you sure you want to shutdown?"

 

[Deebs]

Or avoid the pain/cost and do a final check?

Even my pc asks "are you sure you want to shutdown?"

That is not how it works otherwise nothing would ever get done. You take a vote, implement the result, rinse and repeat. People were fully warned about the consequences of leaving the EU as per my link a few message ago. The Government made it clear that there would be serious consequences for the UK if we left the EU.

Actually I am happy to suffer the pain of leaving the EU now than in another 30 years time (although I suspect the EU will have imploded by then)

 

[Wij]

Correct and you don't speak for anyone else as well.

I didn't claim to. I've not changed my mind. Neither have you. My point is that neither of us represent 100% of the population. The result was narrow. Only a small percentage need to change their mind.

I knew the consequences when I cast my vote, it was a binary question and the Government dropped a flier into every house telling us exactly what would happen if we LEFT the EU.

YOU claim you did. Many claim they did not.

If you say you fully understand the utter carnage that will ensue from crashing out of the EU without a deal then can I ask what has been so horrible over the last 40 years that means economic meltdown is worth it?

 

[Job]

I've never read something so wrong.

Sure there's loads of working class people that have a good trade behind them, but there's also millions who don't.

Imagine seeing atleast pfft... 20-25 kids a day wearing shoes/clothes with holes in and relying on the school for 2 meals a day (they all usually rush in for breakfast). It's sad and disheartening, the problem is (that @Scouse correctly pointed out) that they've been led to believe that once we leave the EU everything will be fine and dandy for them.

Every single one of those cases is a child protection issue.
I can guarantee its because of bad parental finances and the kids suffer.

Im always reminded of the Kurdish guy I was talking to..in the west he says, you cant tell the difference between the well off and the poor.

Its an obscenity to call people poor in this country..if you are in benefits in the UK you are still better off than 95% of the planet.

 

[Deebs]

I didn't claim to. I've not changed my mind. Neither have you. My point is that neither of us represent 100% of the population. The result was narrow. Only a small percentage need to change their mind.


YOU claim you did. Many claim they did not.

If you say you fully understand the utter carnage that will ensue from crashing out of the EU without a deal then can I ask what has been so horrible over the last 40 years that means economic meltdown is worth it?

Firstly I don't claim I did, I am stating fact that I knew what I was voting for and the ramifications. Stop fucking making it look like I am like the Leavers you want to portray as didn't know what they were doing.

I simply do not want to be part of a United States of Europe where the UK becomes a state and stops being a soverign country which is where I believe the EU is heading. The EU is now talking of becoming an Empire as well (well France has called for it).

 

[Wij]

Firstly I don't claim I did, I am stating fact that I knew what I was voting for and the ramifications. Stop fucking making it look like I am like the Leavers you want to portray as didn't know what they were doing.

I specifically said that neither of us did, or could, claim to speak for anyone else so I'm not doing either of those things.

I simply do not want to be part of a United States of Europe where the UK becomes a state and stops being a soverign country which is where I believe the EU is heading. The EU is now talking of becoming an Empire as well (well France has called for it).

That's a cop out. Having a beef about things that might happen in the future. What that the EU has done in the last 40 years is worth trashing the UK to escape from?

 

[Job]

My question is gow long will the Germans continue to bankroll the EU.
They are only doing it because they feel they are investing in an empire, how long before the voters say.
'We pay for this..we want it for ourselves', thats the German long game and I dont blame them one bit.

This fucking car crash is playing out right in front of us and slowly country by country people are finally getting on to it, but they are too tied in to do anything about it.

 

[Wij]

People were fully warned about the consequences of leaving the EU as per my link a few message ago. The Government made it clear that there would be serious consequences for the UK if we left the EU.

That was Project Fear remember. Vote Leave and Leave.EU had magic money clouds building hospitals and schools on their broadcasts.

 

[Deebs]

I specifically said that neither of us did, or could, claim to speak for anyone else so I'm not doing either of those things.



That's a cop out. Having a beef about things that might happen in the future. What that the EU has done in the last 40 years is worth trashing the UK to escape from?

No it is not a cop out. It is happening right now. The rules and regulations coming from Brussels is not what I want. Period.

 

[Deebs]

That was Project Fear remember. Vote Leave and Leave.EU had magic money clouds building hospitals and schools on their broadcasts.

Did you read the link to the Government site listing the issues we will face if we left the EU? That was a REMAIN leaflet.

 

[Wij]

That was Project Fear remember. Vote Leave and Leave.EU had magic money clouds building hospitals and schools on their broadcasts.

Like this:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tItgGcWVHw


I wonder why they bothered making these if noone took any notice.

 

[Wij]

No it is not a cop out. It is happening right now. The rules and regulations coming from Brussels is not what I want. Period.

Which rules that are in place now are intolerable?

 

[Deebs]

Like this:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tItgGcWVHw


I wonder why they bothered making these if noone took any notice.

No idea, I have stated my reasons and why, never took any notice of either side.

 

[Wij]

No idea, I have stated my reasons and why, never took any notice of either side.

Millions of others however voted because they thought the NHS would get £350 million extra a week.

 

[Deebs]

Which rules that are in place now are intolerable?

Look, I am not going to list rules. The referendum in 2016 was my chance at saying I do not want to be part of a centralised government (ie United States of Europe). It was your chance to say you wanted to remain in the EU. The majority said no, leave.

Once we have left, feel free to call for a referendum on rejoining the EU. Whatever the majority votes for I will have to accept, even if it is to rejoin.

 

[Job]

90% are perfectly sensible rules..a good chunk our own standards recycled.
Its the. Someone else implementing and having final say...bit.
Thats the clincher...human spirit getting in the way of the new EU droid army.

 

[Deebs]

Millions of others however voted because they thought the NHS would get £350 million extra a week.

Well more fool them. Politicians lie all the fucking time. At every General Election yet people still vote for false promises, this is no different in that respect. You sound desperate if I am being honest. If being a part of Europe is that important to you, on a serious and sincere question, have you looked into moving onto the continent? I honestly mean no disrepect or insult in this question, just wondering.

 

[Job]

This is such fucking bullshit.
14 million living in poverty in the UK.

These reports are making a farce of an allready farcical organisation.
They have gone around the west accusing countries of social engineering.
They fail to mention the defintion of poverty they are using.
Large amounts of the middle classes fall into poverty because of disposable income after outgoings.
Poverty in the UK is not having enough money to participate in society.
Internet..holidays, socialising, fashion.
Its a joke...and use of the word is an affront to real poverty.

UK austerity has inflicted 'great misery' on citizens, UN says

 

[Wij]

Well more fool them. Politicians lie all the fucking time. At every General Election yet people still vote for false promises, this is no different in that respect. You sound desperate if I am being honest. If being a part of Europe is that important to you, on a serious and sincere question, have you looked into moving onto the continent? I honestly mean no disrepect or insult in this question, just wondering.

I'm tempted. If we crash out the EU with no deal this country will be shit-poor and I don't want my kids growing up like that.

 

[Wij]

Look, I am not going to list rules. The referendum in 2016 was my chance at saying I do not want to be part of a centralised government (ie United States of Europe)

So you are happy to cause a massive decline in the UK, both in terms of economics and reputation, in order to ward off something that might happen, but also might not? I'm not being snarky I just don't get that.

 

[Job]

Reputation...fucking lol.

You vill be assimilated or people vill zink you are naughty.

 

[Deebs]

I'm tempted. If we crash out the EU with no deal this country will be shit-poor and I don't want my kids growing up like that.

How do you know that? I suspect it will be rough for a few years but then who knows? Noone does.

So you are happy to cause a massive decline in the UK, both in terms of economics and reputation, in order to ward off something that might happen, but also might not? I'm not being snarky I just don't get that.

No, I am willing to trust that I believe it will get better given time. You firmly believe that the UK will end the moment it leaves the EU, however, I do not. Noone knows what the future holds, whether we are in the EU or not.

 

[Deebs]

Reputation...fucking lol.

You vill be assimilated or people vill zink you are naughty.

Yeh, the moment we leave the EU all our incredible scientists/inventors etc will lose all their reputation as being best in class overnight.

 

[Wij]

Reputation...fucking lol.

You vill be assimilated or people vill zink you are naughty.

Jesus. Not UK individuals' reputations. The reputation of the UK as a serious country that can negotiate agreements and stick to them. Throughout this process we've had various characters saying that they'll sign something but not enforce it or sign a binding agreement that they intend to welch out of. This shit actually matters. Other countries listen. If you think any major economy is desperate to do us a trade deal after this then you are wrong. Why waste their precious time and skilled negotiators when they could be using it with a serious country that does its homework and acts in good faith?

 

[Deebs]

Jesus. Not UK individuals' reputations. The reputation of the UK as a serious country that can negotiate agreements and stick to them. Throughout this process we've had various characters saying that they'll sign something but not enforce it or sign a binding agreement that they intend to welch out of. This shit actually matters. Other countries listen. If you think any major economy is desperate to do us a trade deal after this then you are wrong. Why waste their precious time and skilled negotiators when they could be using it with a serious country that does its homework and acts in good faith?

The issue is the weak PM we have not Brexit.

 

[Gwadien]

The issue is the weak PM we have not Brexit.

The issue is having a referendum and not taking considering the opinions of a major part of that referendum; the EU.

A deal should have been negotiated, from a prominent Leave campaigner, then we have a referendum.

 

[Wij]

How do you know that? I suspect it will be rough for a few years but then who knows? Noone does.


No, I am willing to trust that I believe it will get better given time. You firmly believe that the UK will end the moment it leaves the EU, however, I do not. Noone knows what the future holds, whether we are in the EU or not.

People who negotiate trade deals do know...

 

[Deebs]

The issue is having a referendum and not taking considering the opinions of a major part of that referendum; the EU.

A deal should have been negotiated, from a prominent Leave campaigner, then we have a referendum.

No, we could not negotiate a deal until we triggered Article 50.

 

[Deebs]

People who negotiate trade deals do know...

Like I said before, it will take time. Nothing new here, move along.

You can post everything you want but it will not change my mind. I want out of the United States of Europe and where *I* believe it is heading. This is my right within the laws of the UK.

 

[Wij]

The issue is the weak PM we have not Brexit.

The PM wasn't the one saying we should break the Good Friday Agreement or that we should be allowed to have different customs and regulations but then not enforce them on the border. Or that we could join the EEA only to leave it a couple of years later. Or that if we don't get a good deal out of the EU we should not honour our existing commitments.

This is absolutely signalling to other countries that your signature on a treaty isn't worth the paper it's written on.