Politics POLL: Brexit Withdrawal Agreement

[BloodOmen]

Something I think both sides of the argument need to read - OK Leaving is going to be tough and there are many hard negotiations still to come, however he also knocks on the head any chance of Remaining and reforming the EU, which was one of the more positive Remain arguments I could have got behind.

Personally, my biggest issue with Remain (and if you remember, I would have been quite happy with either outcome in 2016, just want to get behind whichever result occurred) is that the status quo was not an option, it was either more Europe or less. In a weird way, the best way to get the status quo might be the WA, just the backstop needs looking at.

Problem with the backstop is, the EU has already said they absolutelly will not renegotiate on it. Basically leaves the issue in a very fragile place.

 

[Bodhi]

Problem with the backstop is, the EU has already said they absolutelly will not renegotiate on it. Basically leaves the issue in a very fragile place.

So if someone says they won't negotiate on something, you believe them? Or do you not think it's a tactic?

 

[Ctuchik]

But why would EU want to renegotiate? They kinda have no reason to from what i understand.

 

[Embattle]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4F4qzPbcFiA

 

[caLLous]

 

[Gwadien]

I think it's fairly obvious that the Tories have had a chat and are saying Tresseme will rule until No Deal Brexit comes and then the Brexiteer Government will come in.

Then if it goes tits up they can blame Remainer May for not sorting out a good enough deal.

 

[BloodOmen]

So if someone says they won't negotiate on something, you believe them? Or do you not think it's a tactic?

Tactic obviously, they know how fucked the UK would be with a no deal Brexit, they'll continue to use such tactics to make May roll over - still doesn't mean its not a shit situation.

 

[Wij]

So if someone says they won't negotiate on something, you believe them? Or do you not think it's a tactic?

The EU would rather have No Deal than agree to anything that doesn't guarantee the Good Friday Agreement. That isn't a tactic. It's a stated red-line agreed by all 27 nations in public and presented to the UK at the start of negotiation and stuck to ever since. You think they have a secret set of real red-lines as well?

The primary loser from No Deal (after the UK of course) would be the Republic Of Ireland and they are the ones who insist on it most strongly.

The EU strikes deals all the time. It has a reputation to consider. One deal is not worth ruining that over. In fact sticking to its guns now will show that it doesn't issue empty threats. The UK has utterly shat on its reputation by changing its mind, dropping red-lines, adding new ones, changing its mind again and indicating it would break things it has agreed to as soon as it gets the chance.

 

[Job]

Now we're talking.

Brexit: No 10 says it will escalate planning for no deal - Politics live

 

[Job]

The EU would rather have No Deal than agree to anything that doesn't guarantee the Good Friday Agreement. That isn't a tactic. It's a stated red-line agreed by all 27 nations in public and presented to the UK at the start of negotiation and stuck to ever since. You think they have a secret set of real red-lines as well?

The primary loser from No Deal (after the UK of course) would be the Republic Of Ireland and they are the ones who insist on it most strongly.

The EU strikes deals all the time. It has a reputation to consider. One deal is not worth ruining that over. In fact sticking to its guns now will show that it doesn't issue empty threats. The UK has utterly shat on its reputation by changing its mind, dropping red-lines, adding new ones, changing its mind again and indicating it would break things it has agreed to as soon as it gets the chance.

This is not any old deal..this us not business as usual...the EU is about to lose its second biggest economy..by far its most important country, a permanent member of the security council, one of its Nuclear powers and most powerful military.
Its like losing the bottom 20 countries at once..its a fucking disaster for them and they WILL back down...it is very... very hard for them to do it, they are trying to scare all the remainer cowards...anything but give us what we want, but as the days close they are looking into two abysses, which is the safest leap.

 

[Wij]

This is not any old deal..this us not business as usual...the EU is about to lose its second biggest economy..by far its most important country, a permanent member of the security council, one of its Nuclear powers and most powerful military.
Its like losing the bottom 20 countries at once..its a fucking disaster for them and they WILL back down...it is very... very hard for them to do it, they are trying to scare all the remainer cowards...anything but give us what we want, but as the days close they are looking into two abysses, which is the safest leap.

It's not about not giving us what we want. It's about them not backing down on their absolute red-lines. Why do you always have to look at this from the UK point of view? If you don't try to understand the motives of the other party you will always be shit at negotiating.

 

[Embattle]

This is not any old deal..this us not business as usual...the EU is about to lose its second biggest economy..by far its most important country, a permanent member of the security council, one of its Nuclear powers and most powerful military.
Its like losing the bottom 20 countries at once..its a fucking disaster for them and they WILL back down...it is very... very hard for them to do it, they are trying to scare all the remainer cowards...anything but give us what we want, but as the days close they are looking into two abysses, which is the safest leap.

One of the reasons to get out it is the EUs intransigence to change, the fact you think they will suddenly change that now is quite laughable when in reality ever since our entry to the EU we've been somewhat problematic to others who only see more EU as the solution to all the problems it has.

As for the notion of trade, both sides seem to take a dimwitted all or nothing view at times which is rubbish as trade will still happen both ways but it'll be more problematic and not quite as desirable the effect of which will see some immediate bumps which will lessen with time.

 

[Wij]

Interesting:

https://www.politico.eu/article/britain-nationalist-dark-web-populism-tommy-robinson/

 

[Embattle]

Read it earlier, part 1 of a 3 part series.

 

[Wij]

Not getting the coverage it deserves imo:


View: https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1074685695648825344

 

[Embattle]

The Air Force is getting ready to launch its first next-generation GPS satellite, but the best features may not be ready until 2022

 

[caLLous]

Did you have a point?

 

[dysfunction]

He meant to say it won't be as good as the Galileo sattelite that we won't have use of once we leave the EU

 

[Gwadien]

I just bought a charger from China.

Project fear saying we can't trade with China, HA!

 

[dysfunction]

Let's hope it doesn't burn your house down.

 

[caLLous]

 

[dysfunction]

So there can be another no confidence vote?
the other one was just a Conservative vote but this would be a full parliament vote?

 

[BloodOmen]

So there can be another no confidence vote?
the other one was just a Conservative vote but this would be a full parliament vote?

Yep and Corbyn is backed by the SNP, Lib Dems and potentially the 100+ Tories that tried to get rid of May the other day, I doubt she'll survive this one.

 

[Embattle]

Yep and Corbyn is backed by the SNP, Lib Dems and potentially the 100+ Tories that tried to get rid of May the other day, I doubt she'll survive this one.

Yes against May, however that carries little practical weight but the one that does is a vote of no confidence in the government and it doesn't look like they would win that one should they actually bother.

 

[dysfunction]

Well the tweet said against the government so obviously think it's worth it

 

[Embattle]

Well the tweet said against the government so obviously think it's worth it

You do realise it is Labour right, and that is a threat if they don't get to run a pointless vote against the PM.

 

[dysfunction]

It's not beyond the realm of impossibility especially with the way things are going.

 

[Bodhi]

Kind of distracts from positive developments like this:

UK to remain in Common Transit Convention after Brexit

Won't make all our problems go away, but a step in the right direction

 

[Embattle]

I do get the feeling the government didn't maximise it's efforts to reduce risks if there is a no deal, it was always going to be better to waste the money if it wasn't needed than waste the time.

 

[MYstIC G]