Politics POLL: Brexit Withdrawal Agreement

[dysfunction]

So who will fix that, the left or the right?
Sets myself up.

Jim will fix it for you

 

[Wij]

Only the Germans follow the rules, the French are considerably more pragmatic

Customs and regulatory inspections are not rules any EU country typically flouts.

 

[Gwadien]

There are certain things they can't do, such as violence against the people by the state and this sort of thing most likely will have the EU complaining but there isn't much they can do about it, legally in itself. They can insist the violence, that the French state appears to be trying to hide (rather worryingly) stops and forcibly if necessary but I am not sure there is much they can do about journalist suppression.

I'm not entirely sure where the French government thinks this is going to lead, oppressing everyone hasn't exactly worked out for them in the past and the French do love a good protest!

I'm a bit torn over the whole recording police stuff.

Because obviously whilst it's great and has given evidence to support groups like BLM where there is obviously massive injustices, there's also many cases out there where someone has fired a police officer up and then whacked on their camera phone and has caught the police reacting like... humans.

Whilst @Scouse will respond with 'yeah but they're the law and this is entirely how it should be' if I were to be told as a teacher that all my lessons were now recorded and reviewed I'd quit teaching in a heart beat because I am a human being, and I do things occasionally that could be considered inappropriate which whilst kids wouldn't give a shit about (I've never ever had a complaint) I'm sure there will be plenty of people that will be offended on their behalf and you'll see teachers constantly getting a bollocking, thus adding more stress onto a job which is considered easy as fok. As the rules currently stand, if a kid is caught recording staff they can be permanently excluded as a result.

I'm just unsure why you'd train to be a copper knowing that one slight fuck up/out of context video can end your career in an instant. We need coppers too, let's not be too anarchist about it

 

[Raven]

Customs and regulatory inspections are not rules any EU country typically flouts.

Going to stop you there. They are things that EU countries routinely flout it's just nobody really cares when it in its inter-EU. We have a German firm that keeps insisting everything is from Germany when they outsourced everything and send direct from CZ years ago, it's important from a customs perspective and even more so when dealing with someone outside of the EU.

It's getting to the point where we are just going to fuck them off over it (final nail and all that) and source from elsewhere. Which will be most of their business down the pan.

 

[Wij]

Going to stop you there. They are things that EU countries routinely flout it's just nobody really cares when it in its inter-EU. We have a German firm that keeps insisting everything is from Germany when they outsourced everything and send direct from CZ years ago, it's important from a customs perspective and even more so when dealing with someone outside of the EU.

It's getting to the point where we are just going to fuck them off over it (final nail and all that) and source from elsewhere. Which will be most of their business down the pan.

OK - from non-EU countries caveat then

 

[Raven]

Yes, but even in the EU we have to report movement of goods via intrastat and we absolutely must record the correct source and destination country and exactly what the goods are, even inter EU. As it stands we just correct whatever crap they send us before submission but in future we won't be able to.

 

[DaGaffer]

I'm a bit torn over the whole recording police stuff.

Because obviously whilst it's great and has given evidence to support groups like BLM where there is obviously massive injustices, there's also many cases out there where someone has fired a police officer up and then whacked on their camera phone and has caught the police reacting like... humans.

Whilst @Scouse will respond with 'yeah but they're the law and this is entirely how it should be' if I were to be told as a teacher that all my lessons were now recorded and reviewed I'd quit teaching in a heart beat because I am a human being, and I do things occasionally that could be considered inappropriate which whilst kids wouldn't give a shit about (I've never ever had a complaint) I'm sure there will be plenty of people that will be offended on their behalf and you'll see teachers constantly getting a bollocking, thus adding more stress onto a job which is considered easy as fok. As the rules currently stand, if a kid is caught recording staff they can be permanently excluded as a result.

I'm just unsure why you'd train to be a copper knowing that one slight fuck up/out of context video can end your career in an instant. We need coppers too, let's not be too anarchist about it

1. We hold police to a higher standard than the general public because they're police. "They're only human" isn't an acceptable defence. The purpose of this law is to avoid making cops identifiable so they can subsequently targeted (its off the back of a shooting a couple of years ago where an Islamic terrorist tracked down a cop and his family), but its an objectively bad law because its so obviously open to abuse by the authorities. In the UK bad laws can be modified by precedent and cases, but that's not the case in France where they will inevitably have to pull it. People applaud the French for getting bolshie but sometimes they have to because its the fast track to changing bad laws which would simply be narrowed into specific use cases by judges in the UK.

2. I think you may have to think about your long term career plans because monitoring of teachers is an inevitability, and ironically its more likely to happen in the UK than the EU as Britain waters down privacy protections post-Brexit (along with flogging off everything that isn't nailed down), and given the UK is the most monitored country on Earth anyway.

 

[Scouse]

I'm a bit torn over the whole recording police stuff.

Because obviously whilst it's great and has given evidence to support groups like BLM where there is obviously massive injustices, there's also many cases out there where someone has fired a police officer up and then whacked on their camera phone and has caught the police reacting like... humans.

I would like to see your evidence for that statement.

Preferably video evidence. Perhaps from the cameras a lot of police wear to, you know, collect evidence?

Police are in positions of outsize power. They get trained to deal with being wound up. Recording of police violence and abuse is exposing just how violent and abusive the police are being in routine circumstances.

if I were to be told as a teacher that all my lessons were now recorded and reviewed I'd quit teaching in a heart beat because I am a human being, and I do things occasionally that could be considered inappropriate which whilst kids wouldn't give a shit about (I've never ever had a complaint)

Do you grab your kids, put them in the back of a van and then give them a good kicking on a regular basis then?

Maybe you've thrown some chalk across the room (as used to be on the old days) or you've used some inappropriate language. Big deal.

A teacher is not in a position of authoritarian, life-changing, power, other than the power over the quality of education a child receives. You can't falsify evidence and get people locked up for things.

We are to be goverened by consent. We do not consent to be abused. If police are caught, on camera, abusing their position - physical violence - then how can you be such an apologist for them?


Girl: I've been beaten up by my boyfriend
Boy: Well, I feel hard done by - the fucking bitch was winding me up for, like, three hours beforehand. And I snapped and punched her in the nose.
Gwadien: Well, I feel like you should get off scott free then. It takes two to tango after all and she was egging you on.



Or is it just you're allowed to snap emotionally if it's your job?

I'm just unsure why you'd train to be a copper knowing that one slight fuck up/out of context video can end your career in an instant. We need coppers too, let's not be too anarchist about it

In the case of one of my best friends at uni, it was because he genuinely wanted to help people. Never said boo to a goose (literally - he was an environmental scientist). Two years after joining the force he almost quit. In tears to me he was having an existential crisis about how widespread casual and unjust violence was used by the police to no good end.

His solution? He broke. He joined in. No longer was he getting shit off other coppers because he might snitch on them. No longer was he getting bullied by them because he tried to hold himself to a better standard. He was no uncorruptible Jim Gordon - hated and untrusted by half his force because he wasn't on the make.


So cameras then. A really good tool to protect the public from unjust violence. Not just violence - we allow our coppers to mete out limited violence for specific purposes. But we don't allow them to beat people up for shits and giggles, or to exhorcise their frustrations. And cameras help ensure police act with more integrity when people are about. - i.e. they do this when there are witnesses ffs! (They will not have that inihibition in secret, Scouse's back garden, lets take turns to beat the fuck out of an unarmed and terrified 15 year old car theif and repeatedly set the dog on him type secret fun area - but he deserves it, no?)

Not only are you an authoritarian censor, you're now also an apologist for criminal behaviour.

Wowzers. Who'd have thunk teaching would have turned mild mannered leftie Gwadien into a facist!

 

[Gwadien]

Not only are you an authoritarian censor, you're now also an apologist for criminal behaviour.

Wowzers. Who'd have thunk teaching would have turned mild mannered leftie Gwadien into a facist!

Collecting Scouse badges like it's going out of fashion

I guess you ignored this bit so you could just apply labels willy-nilly.

I'm a bit torn over the whole recording police stuff.

 

[Scouse]

Collecting Scouse badges like it's going out of fashion

I guess you ignored this bit so you could just apply labels willy-nilly.

I guess you ignore winking smilies, which since the inception of the internet have meant that you shouldn't take the statement too seriously.

Notice that I haven't applied one here - just so you know I'm serious about the statement that you shouldn't take that so seriously m8.

Spoiler

Or am I?

 

[Wij]

View: https://twitter.com/RHANews/status/1332053475774124037

 

[Gwadien]

View: https://twitter.com/RHANews/status/1332053475774124037

Why is their Sky from like 2008?

 

[Job]

The reason police give little fuckers a good hiding is because what awaits them is a gauntlet of hopeless activists intent on removing their responsibility and passing the blame on to someone else so they can write it up in the guardian.
The justice system in this country is so broken it has reformed into the opposite of itself.

Getting a good kicking in the back of a police van is all the justice most of these scrotes will see in their lives.
Ive been there, mixed with them..listened to their arrogance..their mockery of the courts...endless excuses..endless second chances, endless indifference to the victims from the criminal and the legal system.

The whole approach by these diseased academics is to push towards a system where not punishing means 'crime' disappears and lets push it onto the victims as the real problem because their desire for justice interferes with the path back to innocence for criminals and the ultimate goal of validation of their pet theories.

 

[Ormorof]

Is the purpose of the justice system to punish criminals or reduce crime?

 

[Job]

Neither it would seem.

 

[Scouse]

Neither it would seem.

This sort of answer to direct questions is why you flirt with bans all the time m8.

Why do you choose to act like that?

 

[Job]

Is the purpose of education to educate or judge through testing.

 

[Raven]

It's to educate, sorry you missed it.

 

[Scouse]

It's to educate, sorry you missed it.

This.

The judging through testing bit is to check whether the education worked.

To do some jobs requires that education worked. So if you did shit at your exams then that indicates you're not suitable to do those jobs. It's a bit of a shit system because the way we organise education misses many people, leaves some very talented individuals behind and holds plenty of people back. But right now it's the best system we have until someone comes up with better.

But, fundamentally @Job, the education system is there to educate. The testing is just a check to see how well you did.

Sorry you don't like being judged. It's not a pleasant experience for anyone. But everyone goes through it.

 

[Job]

I got that back to front actually.
I meant to say what is the point of exams..to check your knowledge or grade your success.

Quite obviously we could have an education system where you have a minimal level and if you reach it in a test you get a pass and nothing past that is registered.
Employers or further education cannot access anything you do past that.
Sounds idiotic.
I bet you its a thing within 5 years

 

[Gwadien]

I got that back to front actually.
I meant to say what is the point of exams..to check your knowledge or grade your success.

Quite obviously we could have an education system where you have a minimal level and if you reach it in a test you get a pass and nothing past that is registered.
Employers or further education cannot access anything you do past that.
Sounds idiotic.
I bet you its a thing within 5 years

Is this connected to the police thing some how? I'm confused.

But anyway, you're right in my opinion outside of maths and other non-writing subjects the quality of your writing effects the grade more than the information that you are required to know.

In the last round of education reform, the amount of knowledge you're meant to know has increased and the quality of your writing is slightly more scrutinized.

I think for GCSE the expectation of writing quality needs to be decreased because it does demotivate students with genuine interests in different subjects but aren't at a high enough quality. I'd be more in favour of a system where students need to apply a high level of writing ability at A-level standard and support students accordingly, as A-level is the time where you start to make informed decisions on what you'd like to do in the future.

 

[Scouse]

I meant to say what is the point of exams..to check your knowledge or grade your success.

To grade your success by checking your knowledge.

 

[Raven]

Sounds idiotic.

Yep, common theme with you.

 

[Scouse]

in my opinion outside of maths and other non-writing subjects the quality of your writing effects the grade more than the information that you are required to know.

What do you mean by "quality of your writing"?

I get that the maths and sciences are objectively measureable - you're either measurably right or wrong and can be graded on the level of your absolute knowledge.

But I don't get the other? I mean, English lit, or art? It's mostly subjective anyway, right? So how do you grade that? I'm guessing it's difficult to grade how someone constructs an argument if you disagree with the fundamentals of their point.


I went to a catholic school for my GCSE's and A-Levels. I did an ethics course as an AS-Level because I thought it'd allow me to bunk off a bit. Of course, it had a religious bent. I remember thinking the guy who taught it was a fucking idiot who knew absolutely nothing (he was a full sky-fairy worshipper). He gave me a right load of shit for a paper I'd written that was going to be externally marked - I also studied biology and I'd made an ethics argument based around measureable and proveable physical properties (I can't remember the details). He wanted me to consider the "woo" of soul and other airy fairy shit in my argument but I'd discounted it out of hand as a pointless argument as ethics should be based on what we know, not subjective bollocks.

He was completely dumbfounded when it came back with an A. And admitted he couldn't explain, or follow, the argument. But what if he'd been the examiner?

At least the science subjects are objective eh?

 

[Gwadien]

But I don't get the other? I mean, English lit, or art? It's mostly subjective anyway, right? So how do you grade that? I'm guessing it's difficult to grade how someone constructs an argument if you disagree with the fundamentals of their point.

English lit at GCSE consists of 'Here's a book you're all going to read, and here's all the information you need to quote and explain for the exam questions'.

Art, I'm not really sure, it obviously consists of lots of actual artwork, but I still think there's a fair amount of literacy you have to do, explaining artists etc.

Grading is all about fitting into boxes, which means it rewards the ability to write well, rather than the ability to be creative or have a unique perspective on something.

Even science subjects aren't completely objective though - they still have 'explain x' questions where writing ability is still a large factor.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that we should abandon a decent level of maths & English across all subjects, but I do think we put up barriers to lots of people when we diminish their ability in one subject because of their writing ability.

By the way, most of our time is spent in lessons teaching about writing techniques and going over exam questions etc rather than teaching actual content.

 

[Scouse]

Even science subjects aren't completely objective though - they still have 'explain x' questions where writing ability is still a large factor.

I'm still not clear by what you mean by "writing ability".

If people can't clearly articulate what they mean to others they, for practical purposes, are essentially useless, no?


I get art is totally subjective, and I never really respected English Lit because of that - if you don't tell the examiners what they want to hear then you don't get the marks. I've got lots of beefs with the educational system because of that - it's part of my "it holds people back" - especially talented people, because to get good grades they have to learn to say the things that get them the grades, rather than think for themselves. Education in many ways drums originality out of the talented and I think there's a huge waste of intellectual resource that mankind could benefit from because of this.

In fact, I think this applies to the very cleverest the most - they're pegged back by a system that needs to raise standards for all rather than freeing them and it sucks the enthusiasm for learning for learning's sake (which should be one of the most fun things in life) out of them. But the solutions to these problems have always had problems of their own, so meh.

 

[Job]

Because the western world is on the road to equality, the obvious singularities, which you would think that good old common sense would limit, are free to condense into ideals that so limit humanity it should actually be put on that list of reasons the galaxy doesnt seem to be full of life.

Its only a matter of time...and tbh I would welcome and have dreamt of it most of my life..before being lazy or low IQ are official disabilities and such people will be given preferential treatment in life.

So every public address will need to feature an entire array of the disadvantaged, which would normal sound a bit unlikely, but after seeing that advert where the patient was surrounded by entirely minorities, quite likely in certain parts, but the anaesthetist had dwarfism.
You just have ask yourself where the line is between genuine societal interest and corporate virtue signalling.
In a few years it will be a person who doesnt know what they are doing and has a helper to turn the gas on for them.

 

[Gwadien]

The year is 2020 the concept of equality is now a bad thing. Lul.

 

[Wij]

View: https://twitter.com/Gladys_musing/status/1232585528895266816

 

[Wij]

And:


View: https://twitter.com/emmyzen/status/1328249351345491976


Let's see shall we