Politics POLL: Brexit Withdrawal Agreement

[Ormorof]

Apart from Raab was on TV yesterday saying that they would respect the decision of the courts.

He was also on TV claiming that parliament wouldn't be prorogated a few months ago look how that turned out

Munching popcorn from sidelines lets see what happens next...

 

[Scouse]

Bad result from a negotiation point of view tbh. This is how it's being seen:

Fabian Zuleeg, the chief executive of the European Policy Centre thinktank, said: “Conclusions? 31 October no deal unlikely unless BJ is willing to break law and won’t be stopped.

So Boris Johnson only has two real options: resign and fight election on clear no deal stance or make deal, capitulating in negotiations. Former looks more likely but unlikely to bring resolution.

 

[dysfunction]

Bad result from a negotiation point of view tbh. This is how it's being seen:

He has always been in a bad place to negotiate.
Nothing is any different.

He has not been successful in achieving anything in parliament yet.

 

[Wij]

He has always been in a bad place to negotiate.
Nothing is any different.

He has not been successful in achieving anything in parliament yet.

But we have learnt that he can use public money to cop off with blondes with big jugs.

 

[Scouse]

He has always been in a bad place to negotiate.
Nothing is any different.

He has not been successful in achieving anything in parliament yet.

Jeezuz. :big facepalm:

Look, we all know he's a twat - but the only reason the EU has to budge, even slightly, is if the threat of busting out with no deal is actually real. Of course he's not achieved anything in parliament yet - because no deal has been struck to bring back to parliament.

So, as the europeans (who've breathed a big sigh of relief, because his balls have been cut out from under him) now know - it's General Election (and the public *might* hand his balls back to him) or capitulation.

Capitulation.

It's funny:
Remainers would rather capitulate than leave. (Pathetic)
Leavers would rather crash out than have a deal. (Idiotic)
Parliament won't validate anything but what they want - regardless of the democratic vote to leave (Twats)
Government wants to implement a democratic vote by undemocratic means that potentially most of the country don't actually want (Twats)

One thing I'm with Johnson on is that it's a fucking farce, and needs bringing to a conclusion. And the rabid leave lot ain't going to go quietly, as much as remainers think they would if they "lose".

I predict a riot.

Potentially.

 

[dysfunction]

Jeezuz. :big facepalm:

Look, we all know he's a twat - but the only reason the EU has to budge, even slightly, is if the threat of busting out with no deal is actually real. Of course he's not achieved anything in parliament yet - because no deal has been struck to bring back to parliament.

So, as the europeans (who've breathed a big sigh of relief, because his balls have been cut out from under him) now know - it's General Election (and the public *might* hand his balls back to him) or capitulation.

Capitulation.

It's funny:
Remainers would rather capitulate than leave. (Pathetic)
Leavers would rather crash out than have a deal. (Idiotic)
Parliament won't validate anything but what they want - regardless of the democratic vote to leave (Twats)
Government wants to implement a democratic vote by undemocratic means that potentially most of the country don't actually want (Twats)

One thing I'm with Johnson on is that it's a fucking farce, and needs bringing to a conclusion. And the rabid leave lot ain't going to go quietly, as much as remainers think they would if they "lose".

I predict a riot.

Potentially.

It's the same situation as we had with May.

Nothing has really changed apart from having Boris in the "driving" seat who thought he could become Dicatator of the week and bulldoze parliament.

Luckily people stood up to that bullshit and slapped him silly.

I agree something has to be done but not the way it's been done so far.

 

[DaGaffer]

Jeezuz. :big facepalm:

Look, we all know he's a twat - but the only reason the EU has to budge, even slightly, is if the threat of busting out with no deal is actually real. Of course he's not achieved anything in parliament yet - because no deal has been struck to bring back to parliament.

So, as the europeans (who've breathed a big sigh of relief, because his balls have been cut out from under him) now know - it's General Election (and the public *might* hand his balls back to him) or capitulation.

Capitulation.

It's funny:
Remainers would rather capitulate than leave. (Pathetic)
Leavers would rather crash out than have a deal. (Idiotic)
Parliament won't validate anything but what they want - regardless of the democratic vote to leave (Twats)
Government wants to implement a democratic vote by undemocratic means that potentially most of the country don't actually want (Twats)

One thing I'm with Johnson on is that it's a fucking farce, and needs bringing to a conclusion. And the rabid leave lot ain't going to go quietly, as much as remainers think they would if they "lose".

I predict a riot.

Potentially.

It's not "capitulation". That's absolute fucking nonsense. Its "forcing a British government to sort its shit out". The backstop forces a British government to fulfill its promises to the British people within two years of the Withdrawal Agreement or explain themselves. Brexiteers are framing it as an evil European scheme to trap the UK forever, because they frame everything as evil European schemes, because they're cunts, morons or moronic cunts, and I cant believe you're falling for their nonsense.

"Trust us it'll be OK" coming from Boris Johnson. Jesus wept.

 

[Scouse]

It's not "capitulation". That's absolute fucking nonsense.

Hey - don't shoot the messenger. That was the CEO of the European Policy Centre thinktank that used that term.

Don't know why you keep thinking I'm falling for anything @DaGaffer. I don't see anything as an "evil European scheme" - especially as I consider the British as largely the main architects of our own legal european straightjacket.

 

[Wij]

Look, we all know he's a twat - but the only reason the EU has to budge, even slightly, is if the threat of busting out with no deal is actually real.

This is still predicated on the idea that cutting a deal between the EU and the UK is a bit like buying a second hand car. It fucking isn't.

Threatening no deal is more like demanding two puddings for tea instead of the one pudding you've paid for and threatening to shit yourself if you don't get your own way.

They might prefer you don't shit yourself because it's going to smell a bit for all concerned but in reality they are more likely to be concerned for your mental wellbeing than treat it as a serious position.

 

[Scouse]

I disagree @Wij.

The reason I disagree is because politics is what's possible. But we can go round and round on this point all day, and we've already been here

 

[Gwadien]

I disagree @Wij.

The reason I disagree is because politics is what's possible. But we can go round and round on this point all day, and we've already been here

Ofc it's possible.

If the EU were feeling ridiculously charitable.

Its poor timing, if we didn't have so many issues going on within Europe then they probably would give us a nice deal, but considering the circumstances, we're in an awful position.

 

[Scouse]

Ofc it's possible. If the EU were feeling ridiculously charitable.

Balls. They'll look at the costs (including political) of us crashing out with no deal and weigh it up against a deal they don't really want to do. If it's marginal, then tough titties. If no-deal is terribad for them then they'll bend to avoid.

But nowt'll happen whilst they think we're going to bend over. Nobody gives anybody anything.

 

[Gwadien]

Balls. They'll look at the costs (including political) of us crashing out with no deal and weigh it up against a deal they don't really want to do. If it's marginal, then tough titties. If no-deal is terribad for them then they'll bend to avoid.

But nowt'll happen whilst they think we're going to bend over. Nobody gives anybody anything.

Why would the EU want a deal that's heavily in our favour, where we can cherry pick all the nice parts of the EU but leave the non desirable things? That'd cause a wave of anti-EU sentiment in many places.

Also, as I said before, they can easily pick up lots of industries that they lost because of the UK leaving and promote growth in the EU whilst we decline.

 

[Scouse]

Why would the EU want a deal that's heavily in our favour.

*sigh*

They won't. That would be politically untenable. They'll want a deal that balances our and their needs, and will be willing to swallow a certain level of unpalletable shenanegans dependent on how painful they think it will be if they don't.

It's fucking bizarre that remainers think that a stance by the EU of "we're not budging" is because they can't/won't - rather than just being a basic negotiation tacitc.

Of course there's red lines, but there's a deal to be done if it can be made to look like they're not getting fucked and we're not getting fucked.


Edit:

Also, as I said before, they can easily pick up lots of industries that they lost because of the UK leaving and promote growth in the EU whilst we decline.

We'll just race to the bottom on tax and environmental protections. The economy will be just fine (for the rich. I expect the UK would be even more attractive to money - considering we're the world's biggest tax dodge haven already, making it even more profitable to put your money here will definitely work - and the EU knows that.).

Pleb'll get fucked over. But then non-private-school-attending families aren't rich enough to give a fuck about. They ain't part of the club.

 

[Wij]

It's fucking bizarre that remainers think that a stance by the EU of "we're not budging" is because they can't/won't - rather than just being a basic negotiation tacitc.

The EU cannot compromise the single market. It cannot allow frictionless trade with any country that does not follow single-market rules. That's not a negotiation tactic. That's just how it functions. If you compromise that it does not function. The single market IS the system of rules and the system that makes and enforces them.

 

[DaGaffer]

Ofc it's possible.

If the EU were feeling ridiculously charitable.

Its poor timing, if we didn't have so many issues going on within Europe then they probably would give us a nice deal, but considering the circumstances, we're in an awful position.

It's not about being "charitable", the EU doesnt have the option to give the UK what it wants, which is the Withdrawal Agreement without the backstop. They have to replace the backstop with a workable alternative because otherwise they're failing to protect the Single Market. I don't know how often this needs to be repeated.

 

[DaGaffer]

*sigh*

They won't. That would be politically untenable. They'll want a deal that balances our and their needs, and will be willing to swallow a certain level of unpalletable shenanegans dependent on how painful they think it will be if they don't.

It's fucking bizarre that remainers think that a stance by the EU of "we're not budging" is because they can't/won't - rather than just being a basic negotiation tacitc.

Of course there's red lines, but there's a deal to be done if it can be made to look like they're not getting fucked and we're not getting fucked.


Edit:

We'll just race to the bottom on tax and environmental protections. The economy will be just fine (for the rich. I expect the UK would be even more attractive to money - considering we're the world's biggest tax dodge haven already, making it even more profitable to put your money here will definitely work - and the EU knows that.).

Pleb'll get fucked over. But then non-private-school-attending families aren't rich enough to give a fuck about. They ain't part of the club.

No. Just. No. The Single Market is the red line because Barnier has 27 countries looking over his shoulder

 

[Scouse]

No. Just. No. The Single Market is the red line because Barnier has 27 countries looking over his shoulder

Yeah, so backstop fudge.

 

[Bodhi]

Not quite true. It means what he did had no legal effect. Parliament is not prorogued.

it also means he lied to the queen and should resign.

Not quite, the judges were very careful not to comment on the conversation between Boris and her Maj in the verdict.

Looking at Sky it also seems that Boris was acting under legal advice that Prorogation would have been legal. That legal advice was given by Mr Cox, the Attorney General.

Interesting times.

 

[BloodOmen]

 

[Job]

Well its all over now, the supreme court has taken a once in history power grab and the entire system is now fucked.
Whatever goddam argument they decided to listen to is irrelevent.
Parliament is dead..democracy is dead, Gina Miller now runs the country.

At least this farce is being played out in public for all to see the final death throes .
The Queen should dissolve the supreme court...thats all that is left to save this country from a form of civil war.

 

[Scouse]

You're good value for money is all I can say @Job.

 

[Job]

A politically motivated decision taken by the supreme court..they had no juristriction until they granted to themselves...right now Ginas legal team are building cases against every cocievable parliamentary move to force us to stay in the EU.
The power of 'democracy' has just been handed to judges.

 

[Wij]

Well its all over now, the supreme court has taken a once in history power grab and the entire system is now fucked.
Whatever goddam argument they decided to listen to is irrelevent.
Parliament is dead..democracy is dead, Gina Miller now runs the country.

At least this farce is being played out in public for all to see the final death throes .
The Queen should dissolve the supreme court...thats all that is left to save this country from a form of civil war.

Court rules that Parliament is supreme.

Therefore parliament is dead.

Buh?

 

[Scouse]

Never understood we run a tripartate system did you...

 

[Job]

With VERY specific responsibilities.

This move by the supreme court is a constitutional crisis....there is no ruling except we think it wasnt right.
There is no law, just an opinion..and opinions are driven entirely by conviction.

 

[Wij]

With VERY specific responsibilities.

This move by the supreme court is a constitutional crisis....there is no ruling except we think it wasnt right.
There is no law, just an opinion..and opinions are driven entirely by conviction.

Read it all have you?

 

[Job]

There is no law ..full stop.

They had no juristiction over politics....now it seems they have, Tonys little baby is now running the country.

 

[Wij]

View: https://twitter.com/davidallengreen/status/1176587523923030017

 

[Job]

Thats bullshit of course...another politicaly motivated opinion.