Politics POLL: Brexit Withdrawal Agreement

[caLLous]

Leave Caller's Arguments Turned On Their Head By James O'Brien - LBC

 

[Scouse]

Trump hates brexit!

What's his two chief bum-lickers around here going to think of that? I bet they've just become perpetual motion machines.

 

[Job]

He says he hates the deal..the leftie bbc as usual spinning the wording..surprised they didnt get climate change and trans rights in there as well.

 

[Gwadien]

He says he hates the deal..the leftie bbc as usual spinning the wording..surprised they didnt get climate change and trans rights in there as well.

Lmao.

Why would Donald Trump be remotely bothered about the Brexit deal? He's just blindly following other populist political groups.

I'm waiting for Erdogan and Putin to say the same and you be like 'omg see it's a shit deal!'

 

[Job]

Well of course..its just bolaks off the top of his head.

Its a shit deal because its far worse then being in the EU .

They have managed to arrange a deal thats the worst of both worlds.
I'm pretty sure that was the plan all along, it's only a matter of time before we have a big speech on why we shouldnt leave..the army will be readied and it wull be six months of shit calling, May and Corbyn will be ousted and some wanker fall guy will be put in to take the flak.

 

[Scouse]

Its a shit deal because its far worse then being in the EU .

From the horses mouth!

Care to come back at this @Bodhi?

 

[Bodhi]

From the horses mouth!

Care to come back at this @Bodhi?

I agree with Donald, it's a shit deal which looks to preclude us from signing trade deals with anyone else.

I mean if we can't have Clorinated Chicken after Brexit, what was the point?

 

[caLLous]

Its a shit deal because its far worse then being in the EU .

Er, excuse me, this deal is the will of the people and in the national interest.

 

[Gwadien]

Er, excuse me, this deal is the will of the people and in the national interest.

Nah m8, you forget, Brexit won, so we leave the EU no matter the consequences.

 

[Bodhi]

Large businesses consider the UK to be uninvestable:

Subscribe to read | Financial Times

Probably because all the business opportunities are hidden behind a paywall.

 

[Scouse]

I mean if we can't have Clorinated Chicken after Brexit, what was the point?

I agree. It's a shit deal.

However, you glibly brought the chlorinated chicken point up - and it's something you've never answered: How do we ensure food quality standards after brexit?

The easy answer for you is: I don't care/want to. Which is fair enough. But I suspect that there is some part of you that does...

 

[Scouse]

Might be funny to you @Embattle - but food quality is important to me.

I can afford to purchase all my meat from UK organic farms, but not everyone can. Brexit looks like delivering lower food quality standards (and longer average food miles) than people have now.

 

[Bodhi]

I agree. It's a shit deal.

However, you glibly brought the chlorinated chicken point up - and it's something you've never answered: How do we ensure food quality standards after brexit?

The easy answer for you is: I don't care/want to. Which is fair enough. But I suspect that there is some part of you that does...

Through the Food Standards Agency, as we do now. We may have to update legislation to stop dodgy trading bodies sending us horse meat instead of beef, but I suspect we'll cope.

 

[Gwadien]

Through the Food Standards Agency, as we do now. We may have to update legislation to stop dodgy trading bodies sending us horse meat instead of beef, but I suspect we'll cope.

I think they will be sending us horse meat instead of beef because that's all we'll be able to afford :'(

 

[Bodhi]

I think they will be sending us horse meat instead of beef because that's all we'll be able to afford :'(

Be reet, there is a cow in the field behind our house. If the worst comes to the worst I am happy to fire golf balls at it if someone else peels it.

 

[Scouse]

Through the Food Standards Agency, as we do now. We may have to update legislation to stop dodgy trading bodies sending us horse meat instead of beef, but I suspect we'll cope.

That's a sly answer and you know it. The food standards agency enforce standards set by the government. Standards that look to be significantly lowered after brexit.

i.e. products that are illegal to sell now will be legal to sell after brexit.


As a side note: why do you bother posting if you 'game' every question like a politician? You're not being held to any mythical standard here - you post consequence-free. So why not shoot with a straight bat and answer simply and honestly?

 

[Scouse]

I think they will be sending us horse meat instead of beef because that's all we'll be able to afford :'(

I have no problem eating dobbin. It's quite nice actually.

 

[caLLous]

As a side note: why do you bother posting if you 'game' every question like a politician? You're not being held to any mythical standard here - you post consequence-free. So why not shoot with a straight bat and answer simply and honestly?

Because a lot of the "vote leave" arguments and stiff-upper-lip nonsense start to fall apart under scrutiny. Some here resort to glib responses and some put in sneaky facepalms and sarcastic funnies.

 

[Bodhi]

That's a sly answer and you know it. The food standards agency enforce standards set by the government. Standards that look to be significantly lowered after brexit.

i.e. products that are illegal to sell now will be legal to sell after brexit.


As a side note: why do you bother posting if you 'game' every question like a politician? You're not being held to any mythical standard here - you post consequence-free. So why not shoot with a straight bat and answer simply and honestly?

Because at this point my answer is the correct one, food standards will be enforced by the Food Standards Agency, any further info at this point is pure conjecture, as we do not know. You can say that food standards will go down, I can say I don't think they will, and neither of us have given the actual answer, just what we think will happen.

You can spot who's an optimist and who isn't however.

But if it comes to it, considering I (occasionally) drink Chlorinated Water and eat Chlorinated Salad, must admit the thought of eating Chlorinated Chicken doesn't fill me full of dread. In fact I've eaten it before several times in the States. I only died twice, so I'm guessing it OK.

As to why I post here, I often wonder that myself.... But then if I didn't this would swiftly descend into another NPC Echo Chamber, so guess I'm here for balance. I also stay in the vain hope that one day you'll be able to debate someone without getting personal. I'm not holding out much hope mind.

 

[caLLous]

Talk about a red flag.

 

[Gwadien]

Because at this point my answer is the correct one, food standards will be enforced by the Food Standards Agency, any further info at this point is pure conjecture, as we do not know. You can say that food standards will go down, I can say I don't think they will, and neither of us have given the actual answer, just what we think will happen.

You can spot who's an optimist and who isn't however.

But if it comes to it, considering I (occasionally) drink Chlorinated Water and eat Chlorinated Salad, must admit the thought of eating Chlorinated Chicken doesn't fill me full of dread. In fact I've eaten it before several times in the States. I only died twice, so I'm guessing it OK.

As to why I post here, I often wonder that myself.... But then if I didn't this would swiftly descend into another NPC Echo Chamber, so guess I'm here for balance. I also stay in the vain hope that one day you'll be able to debate someone without getting personal. I'm not holding out much hope mind.

I for one appreciate an opposing view with a degree of sanity in it.

Even though you are wrong

 

[Scouse]

Because at this point my answer is the correct one, food standards will be enforced by the Food Standards Agency, any further info at this point is pure conjecture, as we do not know. You can say that food standards will go down, I can say I don't think they will, and neither of us have given the actual answer, just what we think will happen.

You can spot who's an optimist and who isn't however.

Your answer is still disingenuous. You know this very well.

We all know that US food standards are lower than ours - so to have any meaningful trade with the US we *have* to lower our standards. It's not like they've higher standards in either food quality or animal welfare and we're having to tighten up to be able to trade with them. And they aren't going to enforce higher standards to trade with us.

There's only one way this can go if we want to trade with the US - which we must if we're to survive economically after leaving the EU.


Your answer is barely concealed bullshit. We do know. We know because it's what has to be...

 

[caLLous]

 

[Yoni]

Apart from Bodhi adding balance the other ‘pros’ are noticibly absent in the debate.

Looking in from the outside, just my view.... all standards in the UK have been dropping for a significant period of time... Last time I was there what stood out was that standards such as, keeping villages and towns looking clean, cleanliness of public transport, areas, airports, toilets....i can go on and on were significantly worse than my previous visit and what is considered to be a quality country hotel is laughable compared with many European countries The British say they are proud... proud of what exactly? Historic events that happened so long ago soon no one will be alive that actually lived through them? Proud of the more dubious history....

Europe does not need the UK for anything...and generally (as i live and work in an international setting) I am embarressed to be considered British and remind anyone who asks that i have not lived there for over 10 years and I will never live there again. All my formal documents have me as a Swedish citizen regardless of my dual citizenship.

I worry for friends and family post Brexit... even for the well off life is going to get a whole load more difficult ;,( it is such a shame that stubbornness is stopping the country making the right decision for future generations.

 

[Yoni]

Two facepalms the forums state only @Embattle double disagreement oO .... what I find interesting is that you seem to disagree with everyone without clarification or response...naturally you can disagree with me ... my view is not popular with you.... however if I remember correctly you do not live outside the UK and you never have? If you return no then your view is not interesting to me as you will never be able to see as I do (by the way the views of you mates or family who may not live in the uk have no meaning to me either.. we all have those oO).

I find Brexiters generally to be in one of three camps : wanting the good old days back (not sure how they define that ....) Or they have been brought up in privileged Tory households and are so blinkered the cant see past their parents out dated views Or they are not educated enough to question the mandate they voted for? I wonder which camp you came from

 

[Scouse]

In many ways that's true @Yoni. The UK often feels like the country level equivalent of 1970's pub food.

 

[Gwadien]

I'd tend to disagree with your first point @Yoni there's been massive amounts of gentrification of cities in the UK, it's just the surrounding invisible council estates which have continued to get poorer and suffer. The weird thing is that apart from Muslims coming over here and fundamentally changing our society, Brexiteers don't appear to be too bothered about the state of people's lives within the UK, it's more of an outward attack on the EU if anything. It is probably subconscious though - people's shit environments making them looking for someone else to blame.

I'd blame austerity.

Also, I agree with you on your point about @Embattle your constant facepalming and being unable to argue your point is boring.

It's interesting to have conversations about Brexit and the different points surrounding it, but apart from @Bodhi and Deebs people are just diving in with attacks on the EU but do very little to defend criticism. For instance with the Brexit campaign promising that there would not be a No Deal, but hey ho.

 

[Wij]

I will do when I find some substance to discuss, all I'm seeing are numbers pulled out of an (friendly) economist's ass. Guess we'll have to see the full report, but given a) who is funding it, b) who is presenting and c) it's a long term economic forecast I shall remain sceptical for now.

Government's own analysis seems to say the same thing:

Brexit will make UK worse off, government warns

 

[Bodhi]

Speaking as someone who also works in an International setting, but doesn't restrict himself to just the EU, I personally cannot disagree with you more @Yoni . At no point since the referendum have I ever been embarrassed to mention I was British, and at no point have I had any negative comments about it, Brexit related or otherwise - in fact what has surprised me was the level of jealousy around it. Not necessarily that we are leaving, but because we got a vote on it in the first place.

Spending a lot of time outside of the UK then arriving back gives you a great view on how life here compares, and again, can't say I agree with your assessment. In fact the only real noticeable negative with coming back to the UK is the number of Health and Safety notices everywhere, other than that the UK tends to be cleaner and more pleasant than the vast majority of European cities (given that Paris is generally used by all and sundry as a toilet, and Barcelona smells like it is). I've seen more burnt out cars in Paris than I've ever seen in the UK, and had far more uncomfortable journeys in the EU than I've ever had in the UK. Hotels are FAR better in the UK than anywhere apart from maybe the Netherlands in my experience, however I think they key thing is, no matter what fantastic place I've been to (California, Fiji, Netherlands, Barcelona, Thailand etc) I am never unhappy to be back in the UK afterwards. Sure it has it's issues like any other country, but to be embarrassed about it? Give over.

But you're right, Europe doesn't need us for anything, which is why they aren't trying to lock us in for ever more - Oh wait, they obviously need our £40 billion, access to the 5th biggest economy in the world and access to the World's Financial Centre.

Also your views on Brexiteers are embarrassingly out of touch, but then as you don't really go anywhere near the UK that's to be expected. Some of us would rather switch our focus from Europe to the Rest of the World, and don't entirely see why we need an enormous, bloated, inefficient bureaucracy in Brussels when we already have one of those in Westminster. I'd be more than happy to investigate the EEA/EFTA option (which I have said since before the Referendum) as trade with Europe is deeply important. Political Union? Get stuffed.

 

[Bodhi]

Government's own analysis seems to say the same thing:

Brexit will make UK worse off, government warns

Given the Government struggles to forecast next Quarter's GDP with any sort of accuracy I'll take their forecasts for 13 years out with a pinch of salt. They also seem to be assuming there would be no cost in GDP to remaining in the EU. As there was no "status-quo" option on the ballot, I'm intrigued how they think that would be the case. For instance if they continue with their plans to harmonise Corporation Tax and we were still a member, could we guarantee that wouldn't have an effect on GDP? How can the Treasury guarantee that if we stayed in then we wouldn't get sucked in to the appalling growth figures seen across Europe?