Politics POLL: Brexit Withdrawal Agreement

[Gwadien]

I'm just wondering what the reply would be if, say, Macron came over to give a press conference, and was potentially drowned out by people in Yellow Vests calling him a wanker. We'd be fairly embarrassed tbh, but when Luxembourg does it to Boris, all is OK?

Strange double standards, but then looking at your "No new offer post", not entirely surprising.

It's healthy to protest, I wouldn't find it embarrassing at all to be honest.

Frankly, I'm just more surprised that Boris didn't leap at the opportunity, he's a good orator. Him attempting to fight the protesters during the press conference would have gone down better than running away.

 

[Job]

Yes it will get to October and theyll extend, but just call it something else.
Its what the EU always does, they have a thousand fucking laws...diktats..recommendations..appeals..projects all on permanent limbo hold, then theyll take it to time freeze..then it will be transfered to special measures.
Theyll have endless meetings about the subject that dont count, then an emergency meeting and finally start the whole fucking thing all over again.

Its what they do if anythings slightly difficult, while feeding the proles the idea progress is being made.

 

[Scouse]

Yes it will get to October and theyll extend, but just call it something else.
Its what the EU always does, they have a thousand fucking laws...diktats..recommendations..appeals..projects all on permanent limbo hold, then theyll take it to time freeze..then it will be transfered to special measures.
Theyll have endless meetings about the subject that dont count, then an emergency meeting and finally start the whole fucking thing all over again.

Its what they do if anythings slightly difficult, while feeding the proles the idea progress is being made.

Why would you blame the EU for an extention that we have to ask for?

The "EU" doesn't extend. They have to agree to it, if WE ask for it. (Which they might do - but not if we don't ask for it first).

So, once again, explain exactly how any of this is the EU's fault @Job.

 

[Gwadien]

Yes it will get to October and theyll extend, but just call it something else.
Its what the EU always does, they have a thousand fucking laws...diktats..recommendations..appeals..projects all on permanent limbo hold, then theyll take it to time freeze..then it will be transfered to special measures.
Theyll have endless meetings about the subject that dont count, then an emergency meeting and finally start the whole fucking thing all over again.

Its what they do if anythings slightly difficult, while feeding the proles the idea progress is being made.

Wait, what, now you're suggesting its the EU is that preventing us from leaving?

wut.

 

[Ormorof]

I'm just wondering what the reply would be if, say, Macron came over to give a press conference, and was potentially drowned out by people in Yellow Vests calling him a wanker. We'd be fairly embarrassed tbh, but when Luxembourg does it to Boris, all is OK?

Strange double standards, but then looking at your "No new offer post", not entirely surprising.

What a crock of shit political leaders get heckled all the time

 

[Wij]

And the "proposals" that have been "seen many times" - that's the EU saying that isn't it (in between saying they've "seen no proposals".

Who knows what's going on?

The backstop is an actual proposal with the details worked out. Specifics.

What the UK has offered as alternatives is nothing concrete. Its a load of ideas with no specifics. It’s like we’ve previously given them a cake and when asked for alternatives we’ve mumbled about eggs being available in Tesco and sugar being available in many forms and then showing them the Curry’s website with all the ovens available. Make the fucking cake and we’ll tell you if it’s a good enough alternative.

 

[Scouse]

The backstop is an actual proposal with the details worked out. Specifics.

One that's been turned down by parliament 3 times.

What the UK has offered as alternatives is nothing concrete. Its a load of ideas with no specifics.

How can you know that?

Yes, I get you're a remainer, but there's a serious amount of trust going one way - to a transnational institution that's every reason to not want to see the UK leave.

You can't trust either side.

 

[Wij]

One that's been turned down by parliament 3 times.


How can you know that?

Yes, I get you're a remainer, but there's a serious amount of trust going one way - to a transnational institution that's every reason to not want to see the UK leave.

You can't trust either side.

Rubbish. If concrete proposals existed either side could publish them.

Boris could say the EU is talking shit. Here it is. All 500 pages.

What would the EU gain by lying here? Nothing.

 

[dysfunction]

One that's been turned down by parliament 3 times.


How can you know that?

Yes, I get you're a remainer, but there's a serious amount of trust going one way - to a transnational institution that's every reason to not want to see the UK leave.

You can't trust either side.

Parliament has been demolished since then...

 

[Job]

Who is the EU today?
France?
Germany?
Juncker?
Some talking head?
Tusk?
The Romanian head of potato imports?

 

[dysfunction]

Who is the EU today?
France?
Germany?
Juncker?
Some talking head?
Tusk?
The Romanian head of potato imports?

Moron

 

[Gwadien]

Who is the EU today?
France?
Germany?
Juncker?
Some talking head?
Tusk?
The Romanian head of potato imports?

Juncker represents the EU as an organisation.

Tusk represents the smaller nations in the EU.

France & Germany represent their selves.

 

[Bodhi]

It's healthy to protest, I wouldn't find it embarrassing at all to be honest.

Frankly, I'm just more surprised that Boris didn't leap at the opportunity, he's a good orator. Him attempting to fight the protesters during the press conference would have gone down better than running away.

I don't have an issue with the protests in the slightest, but I do have an issue with the Luxembourg PMs apparently refusal to move the press conference indoors or away from the assembled throng. Even Laura K from the BBC admitted it would have been a bit of a farce if Boris had spoken, as no one would have been able to hear a thing. Just seems like an easily avoidable situation.

 

[Talivar]

How can we ever have faith in him to tackle any serious and tough issue if he cannot even face a small hostile crowd

 

[Scouse]

I don't have an issue with the protests in the slightest, but I do have an issue with the Luxembourg PMs apparently refusal to move the press conference indoors or away from the assembled throng. Even Laura K from the BBC admitted it would have been a bit of a farce if Boris had spoken, as no one would have been able to hear a thing. Just seems like an easily avoidable situation.

Yep. He was playing to the crowd. Pokey little country playing politics. And fair enough.

Like I said - the EU plays games just as much as the UK.

And @Wij - it's laughable to suggest the UK should publish potential proposals for all to see, especially on something so sensitive as an Irish border.

 

[Gwadien]

Yep. He was playing to the crowd. Pokey little country playing politics. And fair enough.

Like I said - the EU plays games just as much as the UK.

And @Wij - it's laughable to suggest the UK should publish potential proposals for all to see, especially on something so sensitive as an Irish border.

Why does the EU need to 'play games' though?

If the UK came to the EU with an alternative solution then the EU would be like omg, wow this is really cool, everyone can relax a bit!

Why would they do otherwise? They don't need to lie to citizens of the EU.

 

[Scouse]

Hope your dad never sends you to do contract negotiations if you ever work for him

 

[Wij]

And @Wij - it's laughable to suggest the UK should publish potential proposals for all to see, especially on something so sensitive as an Irish border.

You mean like their last proposal? The backstop?

 

[Scouse]

You mean like their last proposal? The backstop?

The backstop was the result of agreed settled negotiation between the EU and one of the worst PM's in living memory.

It had to be published to be voted upon.

They didn't publish the fucking workings out - just the end result.

(And parliament went "fuck no")

 

[Wij]

The backstop was the result of agreed settled negotiation between the EU and one of the worst PM's in living memory.

It had to be published to be voted upon.

They didn't publish the fucking workings out - just the end result.

(And parliament went "fuck no")

And during the negotiations the EU wasn’t saying there’s nothing serious coming from the UK side.

 

[DaGaffer]

And @Wij - it's laughable to suggest the UK should publish potential proposals for all to see, especially on something so sensitive as an Irish border.

Why?

 

[Scouse]

And during the negotiations the EU wasn’t saying there’s nothing serious coming from the UK side.

Ok, so you concede the point.

On this new one - so what? It wasn't counting down to d-day and the idea of leaving the EU without a deal was remote - and the deal May agreed to bends us over a barrel and fucks us in a basement pulp-fiction style.

Why *would* the EU rock the boat? They were getting what they wanted.

 

[Scouse]

Why?

I consider that to be so obvious to be self-evident.

Whatever (if anything) comes of it is obviously going to be a massive fudge - probably to both sides. We won't love it, and the EU will hate it and the only reason we'll fudge it is if both sides are serious about getting a deal done to avoid massive damage. And we'll both want to spin doctor it as a triumph of pragmatism and friendship - which would be impossible if it was to be subject to real scrutiny before the spin happened.

Of course, the EU already has a deal that makes them very happy (so they can keep the thumbscrews on Johnson all they like as their best outcome is if we bottle it or agree to their terms (hence the bullshit trick Luxembourg pulled - to which Jonno went sod ya...))

 

[Scouse]

BTW - in or out - average Joe is still going to get a fucking shit deal - if he wasn't then average Joe wouldn't have protest-voted to leave in sufficient numbers in the first fucking place.

 

[DaGaffer]

I consider that to be so obvious to be self-evident.

Whatever (if anything) comes of it is obviously going to be a massive fudge - probably to both sides. We won't love it, and the EU will hate it and the only reason we'll fudge it is if both sides are serious about getting a deal done to avoid massive damage. And we'll both want to spin doctor it as a triumph of pragmatism and friendship - which would be impossible if it was to be subject to real scrutiny before the spin happened.

Of course, the EU already has a deal that makes them very happy (so they can keep the thumbscrews on Johnson all they like as their best outcome is if we bottle it or agree to their terms (hence the bullshit trick Luxembourg pulled - to which Jonno went sod ya...))

You haven't answered the question. Of course it will be a fudge. But it won't be a secret, and there's nothing to be gained from secrecy at this point. You seem to be under the illusion that this is still a negotiation, it isn't. If the UK doesn't have a workable idea, its no deal, end of story. The only benefit of secrecy is if there's nothing behind the curtain, which there isn't, because Johnson doesn't want a deal. How many words and deeds do you need to see before you accept that? Johnson only cares about the promise to leave on October 31st; he's been extremely clear about that, and while he's a massive lying cunt, he's not actually thick enough to believe that he could come up with a workable solution in a month after three years of effort, and hasn't tried to do so, just some fiddling around the edges on food standards to make it look like work.

 

[Wij]

I consider that to be so obvious to be self-evident.

Whatever (if anything) comes of it is obviously going to be a massive fudge - probably to both sides. We won't love it, and the EU will hate it and the only reason we'll fudge it is if both sides are serious about getting a deal done to avoid massive damage. And we'll both want to spin doctor it as a triumph of pragmatism and friendship - which would be impossible if it was to be subject to real scrutiny before the spin happened.

Of course, the EU already has a deal that makes them very happy (so they can keep the thumbscrews on Johnson all they like as their best outcome is if we bottle it or agree to their terms (hence the bullshit trick Luxembourg pulled - to which Jonno went sod ya...))

Paranoid drivel. Literally nothing here makes sense.

 

[Scouse]

Sorry - disagree - your and Gaffs assertions make sense if you completely 100% know there's no effort going into a deal.

But you don't know that. It may be likely, but you don't know for certain.

 

[Bodhi]

We have to bear in mind as well that the WA wasn't Brussels' first suggestion - we were offered a fairly comprehensive FTA similar to that signed by Canada over a year ago, but that didn't fit with May's red lines so we ended up with the Colonisation Agreement that Parliament voted down 3 times.

EU offers only free trade deal to post-Brexit UK

Why do I suspect if that offer had been made on Boris' watch we'd be out by now?

Also something pretty incredible has happened on this thread, I entirely agree with @Scouse - The EU and UK are now playing hardball, so cards will be kept close to chests until the EU summit on the 14th. Will we get a half decent deal out of it? Still to be seen, but I'm a darn sight more optimistic about getting one with Boris in charge rather than May. Not that that's difficult, but hey

And at least now people know Luxembourg for something other than being a Tax Haven, so there's that.

 

[DaGaffer]

Sorry - disagree - your and Gaffs assertions make sense if you completely 100% know there's no effort going into a deal.

But you don't know that. It may be likely, but you don't know for certain.

There is literally no upside for EU in denying the UK are making any substantive proposals, because it's easily disproved by the British either before or after October 31st. On the other hand, there's a ton of upside if all you want to do is present no deal as a fait accompli in six weeks' time.

I "don't know for certain" the Sun is going to come up tomorrow, but I can give you pretty good odds that it's worth settling your alarm. Same with this.

 

[DaGaffer]

We have to bear in mind as well that the WA wasn't Brussels' first suggestion - we were offered a fairly comprehensive FTA similar to that signed by Canada over a year ago, but that didn't fit with May's red lines so we ended up with the Colonisation Agreement that Parliament voted down 3 times.

EU offers only free trade deal to post-Brexit UK

Why do I suspect if that offer had been made on Boris' watch we'd be out by now?

Also something pretty incredible has happened on this thread, I entirely agree with @Scouse - The EU and UK are now playing hardball, so cards will be kept close to chests until the EU summit on the 14th. Will we get a half decent deal out of it? Still to be seen, but I'm a darn sight more optimistic about getting one with Boris in charge rather than May. Not that that's difficult, but hey

And at least now people know Luxembourg for something other than being a Tax Haven, so there's that.

As far as I'm aware, Boris hasn't relaxed May's red lines one iota, and if he did, that would still have to get past Parliament.