Please Jox stop crying

[Glottis_Xanadu]

Originally posted by Haldar
Clueless chatter

What is wrong with comparing the rear stun style of a savage to an evade stun style of the inf, scout or merc (you never know).
Nerfing DF will not only affect infiltrators, there are also scouts who use it instead of slam to stun their attackers.
Sadly enough, in your narrow little world, of uber Mids, this is of course not relevant.
What will scouts have left if you take DF away in the thrust line?
Dual wield line might have the lvl 50 style Dual Shadows which can function as an anytime (front positional) or maybe you expect infs to only use Garrote (high end) if they have some CS spec.
Also, even funnier is, that a thrust inf without DF will be outdamaged by a considerable margin. How do you plan to compensate this?
All you guys want is another I win button. Such random noob whining without knowing anything. If you feel Dragonfang is overpowered, why not talk about brutalise? Or talk about Annihilation, lvl 50 rear style Large Weapons in Hibernia, or a level 21 celtic spear stun move from parry (must be pretty short at that level). Or lets talk about Diamondback, lvl 25 medium durtaion stun based of evade with piercing.
Lets keep on talking about Razor Edge, lvl 39 rear stun, medium duration or the lvl 8 rear stun Savages get in the H2H line, short duration, but long enough to kill you...
What do you plan on giving back to the thrust line if you take DF away? From your answer, you plan on giving back nothing. Just plain retarded nerfing cause an inf has a decent chance of getting DF of due to high evade. Just like an sb will have a decent chance to gank my scout cause he will evade most of my slams... I would love to see evade nerfed, just don't see the issue with dragonfang.
Regards, Glottis

 

[Glottis_Xanadu]

Originally posted by kinag
typical mid thinking? go find something else to do mate, your opinions means shit and think people are pretty tired about listening to all your whining and when other people whine about something which you got and enjoy you just have to whine about them..

Sorry mister "I know nothing". If you don't know you are talking about, it is best to keep quiet.
I do have an inf, but it is specced slash.
So you won't be touching anything I care much about. I do care about balance in the game. And a thrust inf versus an SB is not balanced if they do not have dragonfang.
But keep talking out of that spot where the sun doesn't shine.
Doing a great job.
Regards, Glottis

 

[Gordonax]

Originally posted by jox
Some people want to see the amount of chars, why? who cares about avarage rp/char, or total score, it shows nothing, but I belive that last week score shows the current balance in the game. For example; Infils at nr 1, thanes at nr 36, is it a coincidence?

That really is the most stupid thing I've ever read on BW.

Of course it matters about the average RP/char per week: that gives you a far better picture of how well a class is doing in RvR than the total RPs. If there were 1000 players of a particular class who got 100 rps each in a week, that would add up to 100k rps. If there were 10 players who got 10k each, it adds up to the same. Would that mean that both classes were equally powerful? Of course not.

If you really can't see this, then you really ought to start engaging your brain a little.

And of course thanes are low down the total RPs table: they're gimped to high heaven, AND few people actively play them in RvR.

Thank god you're not in charge of game balance.

 

[Glottis_Xanadu]

Everybody agrees Thanes need some loving.
Regards, Glottis

 

[Knix]

Originally posted by Ironfoot
The percent figures you quote mean nothing and I'll tell you why


while the total population of stealthers is approx 15% for each realm please take into consideartion the following.

Scene A . What is 15% of 1000 ?

150 I hear you say and you would be right aswell

Scene B. now what is 15% of 3000

450 I hear you say and you would be correct

please note that 15% of scenario A does not = 15% of scenario B

% population means nothing in individual classes whenbased against total realm population. It is a well known fact that Albion has the highest population on average across all servers, and this is why mid as /level 30 on 8 servers and hib on 4 (maybe more) and Alb has /level 30 on NO servers at all.

Fact is there are more infils than SB or NS

Fact SB / NS will probably get more RP per week average as the warder AMG infil noob zerg will only be getting low rp per kill as they add like flies to shit (not saying that SBs or NS don't , but the FOTM crew do it a lot more)

Perhaps if you read my post again youll understand. I didnt say alb had 15% stealthers or whatever out of Total realm population, but about 15% of all Albs on a server - So compared to other realms albs got same percent wise number out of how many albs here are in realm, as how many mid stealthers there are out of how many mids in total Realm. Based on Lv50 only. There is no Total server population in this calc.

Just for the record on 15servers there are according to www.camelotseer.com

Albs - 22287
Mid - 14985
Hib - 15632

Out of them there is there is classes.

INFI/SCOUT - 3185
SB/HUNTER - 2158
NS/RANGER - 2411

So im not saying that there is just as many SB's as infi, im saying there is about the same ammout of alb stealthers (without Mincer) out of total alb population, as there is mid stealthers out ot total Mid population. - And like said before, you cant really use it because you cant see how many thats active or not.

Fact SB / NS will probably get more RP per week average as the warder AMG infil noob zerg will only be getting low rp per kill as they add like flies to shit (not saying that SBs or NS don't , but the FOTM crew do it a lot more) [/B]

Well according to Last weeks Realm points, the RP pr Mid stealther is higher than alb stealther, and Alb stealther is higher than hib stealther - So your wrong

Infi and scout - avg 10505,03364 Realm points pr char
SB and Hunter - avg 11880,97452 Realm points pr char
Nightshade and Ranger avg 9744,031707 Realm points pr char

But okey i asume your one more of those yelling "warder AMG infil noob zerg" 1 r ub3r 1337 guys.

Originally posted buy Jox
Some people want to see the amount of chars, why? who cares about avarage rp/char, or total score, it shows nothing, but I belive that last week score shows the current balance in the game. For example; Infils at nr 1, thanes at nr 36, is it a coincidence?

So in your oppion its fair if theres 3000 infis getting the same rp as 1000 sbs ? - imo not - Im not saying that there aint too many infis around but baseing a nerf on something like that is out of way imo
No its not a coincidence that infi is first and thane is nr 36, more plp playing a class are = more rps total. If someone is low on the rank you gotta see how good they are individual, and how many playing them, not by the rp earned total of all that kind playing the class.

 

[Gordonax]

By Jox's method, animists, valewalkers and cabbies would have to get RvR loving before thanes, as they're the real super-gimps. Oh, and as reavers are only a handful of points better than thanes, you'd better give them a huge boost too.

 

[Knix]

Originally posted by Gordonax
By Jox's method, animists, valewalkers and cabbies would have to get RvR loving before thanes, as they're the real super-gimps. Oh, and as reavers are only a handful of points better than thanes, you'd better give them a huge boost too.

lol

 

[horil]

Originally posted by Glottis_Xanadu
Everybody agrees Thanes need some loving.
Regards, Glottis

Yes please, but it wouldn't realy change anything.. need to get whole new format to get something out of this. There's thing called determination

 

[Gordonax]

Oh, and of course using Jox's method SB's need to be nerfed to bring them down to the level of nightshades.

Still sure you want to be swining the nerf bat, Jox?

 

[horil]

Originally posted by Gordonax
Oh, and of course using Jox's method SB's need to be nerfed to bring them down to the level of nightshades.

Still sure you want to be swining the nerf bat, Jox?

lol, you never tried against ns as sb? get a clue

 

[Gordonax]

Originally posted by horil
lol, you never tried against ns as sb? get a clue

Like I said, I'm using Jox's methods here... you should be asking him about clues. Remember, according to Jox that's the way to determine how over/underpowered a class is. Not how it actually plays in real RvR.

 

[jox]

Originally posted by Gordonax
That really is the most stupid thing I've ever read on BW.

Of course it matters about the average RP/char per week: that gives you a far better picture of how well a class is doing in RvR than the total RPs. If there were 1000 players of a particular class who got 100 rps each in a week, that would add up to 100k rps. If there were 10 players who got 10k each, it adds up to the same. Would that mean that both classes were equally powerful? Of course not.

If you really can't see this, then you really ought to start engaging your brain a little.

And of course thanes are low down the total RPs table: they're gimped to high heaven, AND few people actively play them in RvR.

Thank god you're not in charge of game balance.

So according to your words sbs are the best assassin now;

Sbs 6,7k/last week

Infils 6,1k

NS 5,6k

The only reason sbs have good numbers is that the few who remains are often higher rr and have been around for a while, while "most" infils are newbies.

Its the same thing with zerks;

Zerks 7,2k

Warrior 6,1k

So zerks are stronger than warriors? nah, there are many old zerks around, that still love their class and keeps on playing them even if they dont perform as well as warriors these days.

Average rp/char shows nothing.

But according to you sbs are 10% stronger...lol, time for rehab again?

 

[Gordonax]

Originally posted by jox
So according to your words sbs are the best assassin now;

Sorry to burst your bubble, but no I don't think that. Fact is that infi's are at the top of the food chain right now, although it's closer than whiners like you seem to think. What I'm saying is that you can't judge everything on stat: you have to look at a variety of factors.

But the fact remains that not only are you using a stat to justify a nerf, but that the stat you choose to judge things on is completely spurious as well, as you not even taking into account the most basic item of all: the number of players actually playing a class.

And if you can't even do that, I have serious doubts over your ability to make any meaningful contribution to a debate over whether classes are overpowered or not.

 

[Glottis_Xanadu]

There is nothing wrong with Zerkers...
Or are you now going to say that Zerkers are gimped also?
SB's still do fine, they are just no longer non stop killing machines like they were pre 1.62.
So what? In 1.48 you could kill without destealthing.. who cares?
It is a good things SB's were tomed down. This game is not here for Midgard sole pleasure, despite how you lot all feel.
It would be like saying NS are gimped. They do just fine.
Plenty of NS around that can kill infs, just like there are plenty of SB's around who can kill infs.
Guess you lot just hate equal chances.
Regards, Glottis

 

[Gordonax]

Originally posted by jox
The only reason sbs have good numbers is that the few who remains are often higher rr and have been around for a while, while "most" infils are newbies.

But according to your whine on VN "mercitrators in rr 3-4 beats me on regular basis". So does that mean that those high-RR SBs are consistently getting beaten? In which case, how come SBs are still fifth in your favourite league table? Strange, too, that SBs are the 10th most popular class in terms of numbers - in fact, the second most popular class in Midgard, after the shamen. Obviously "the few who still play" is rather a large number.

Not only is your argument spurious, you're being inconsistent too.

 

[jox]

Originally posted by Gordonax
Sorry to burst your bubble, but no I don't think that. Fact is that infi's are at the top of the food chain right now, although it's closer than whiners like you seem to think. What I'm saying is that you can't judge everything on stat: you have to look at a variety of factors.

But the fact remains that not only are you using a stat to justify a nerf, but that the stat you choose to judge things on is completely spurious as well, as you not even taking into account the most basic item of all: the number of players actually playing a class.

And if you can't even do that, I have serious doubts over your ability to make any meaningful contribution to a debate over whether classes are overpowered or not.

I didnt judge everything on a stat, I base 90% of my judgement by playing the game. All I said was that the stat confirm my point.

Why do you think sbs got nerfed? Yes, becuse the class was overpopulated. And why does a class get overpopulated? Yes, becuase its overpowered(like sbs was).

1. Infils are overpowered.
2. Too many play infils, the class is overpopulated.
3. Stats on Seer confirms my personal experience.
4. Infil-nerf inc, no question about it.

Have no clue why I try to convince a idiot about obvious facts, I have better things to do.

 

[Gordonax]

Originally posted by jox
Why do you think sbs got nerfed? Yes, becuse the class was overpopulated. And why does a class get overpopulated? Yes, becuase its overpowered(like sbs was).

Except that if a class was overpopulated AND overpowered, this would also be reflected in the average weekly RPs per player. The stats don't confirm you point at all.

Even your claim that the remaining SBs are higher RR than "noob" infis is rubbish. Average total realm RPs (ie RR) for the two classes are almost identical.

Seems like you only want to use stats when it suits you, and want to ignore everything that doesn't. Classic tactics of someone who's determined to whine, whatever the facts.

 

[jox]

Originally posted by Gordonax
But according to your whine on VN "mercitrators in rr 3-4 beats me on regular basis". So does that mean that those high-RR SBs are consistently getting beaten? In which case, how come SBs are still fifth in your favourite league table? Strange, too, that SBs are the 10th most popular class in terms of numbers - in fact, the second most popular class in Midgard, after the shamen. Obviously "the few who still play" is rather a large number.

Not only is your argument spurious, you're being inconsistent too.

Did I say consistently? nah.

In terms of numbers? as I said before the TOTAL AMOUNT OF RP SHOWS NOTHING, THE TOTAL AMOUNT OF PLAYERS SHOWS NOTHING ABOUT CURRENT STATE(how many of those sbs are inactive? 70%? 80%?)

The only thing that shows something about current state is Last Week rps.

 

[Gordonax]

Originally posted by jox

The only thing that shows something about current state is Last Week rps.

And yet, over and over again, you can't actually tell us why.

 

[Gordonax]

Originally posted by jox
Did I say consistently? nah.

Sorry, when you said "on a regular basis" I actually assumed you meant "on a regular basis", rather than "occasionally". Why didn't you say "hey, one time in a hundred, a low RR infi beats me! NERF!" then?

 

[jox]

Originally posted by Gordonax
And yet, over and over again, you can't actually tell us why.

I have said it 500 times, but you dont get it.

Now go and play with Donttouchpoopy.

 

[Gordonax]

Originally posted by jox
I have said it 500 times, but you dont get it.

No, you haven't. You've said that an overpowered character leads to higher numbers, which leads to higher RPs. As I've said, this would also lead to higher per-character RPs, which in the case of infi's hasn't happened.

This, of course, you've ignored because it doesn't fit your general whine.

So, please take some time and answer the following questions:

1. Why is it that the infi remains low in the average RPs per week?
2. Why, when you claim that "only a few high-RR SBs are left" is the SB the second most popular character in Midgard?
3. How often, exactly, are you beaten by low RR *solo* infis?

And I note how you've consistently tried to use personal insults instead of actually arguing your case - another classic sign of a whiner.

 

[belth]

Originally posted by jox
4. Infil-nerf inc, no question about it.

Yes there is as long as it isn't announced by Mythic.

 

[belth]

IMO those 2 are better indicators...

 

[brommix]

Jox....let it go, you should known when you meet arguments that defeat your own

 

[Xandax]

Originally posted by Gordonax
<snip>
So, please take some time and answer the following questions:

1. Why is it that the infi remains low in the average RPs per week?
<snip>

1) Because there are more and more infils - thus fewer targets per infil, and thus fewer RP to each.

If the amount of infils increase, but the amount of opponets doesn't - then infils as a player base might get more RP when compared to the opponents, but on average per character, they don't.

 

[K0nah]

heheh

LA gets fixed, Jox rolls a savage.

Go figure...

 

[kinag]

Originally posted by Glottis_Xanadu
But keep talking out of that spot where the sun doesn't shine.
Doing a great job.
Regards, Glottis

Don't think you are the right person to post something like that to be totally honest with you.

 

[Gordonax]

Originally posted by Xandax
1) Because there are more and more infils - thus fewer targets per infil, and thus fewer RP to each.

If the amount of infils increase, but the amount of opponets doesn't - then infils as a player base might get more RP when compared to the opponents, but on average per character, they don't.

Yes, that would account for some fall. But from 1st place to 13th?

So I did a bit of back of an envelope math to try and work it out. Looking at the population of each class, you can work out how many potential other stealthers are targets (number of opponents divided per number of your class). It works out at 1.42 for infi's, 2.18 for SB's, and 2.64 for NS's. For the purposes of making my life simple, I've factored out other stealth classes, although when I get time I'll sit down and work them in to it too.

What that means is that the average infi has around 50% less available targets that an SB has, which of course means that the potential total of RPs "on the table" for infi's is much lower than that of the SB (the zerg effect). To work out an "overpoweredness rating", then, we just multiply the total RPs earned per week by each class by the above figures, which gives us:

Infi - 36 million
SB - 46 million
NS - 40 million

- which on the surface would show that far from being overpowered, the average infi is actually struggling a little.

BUT, actually, what this goes to prove is precisely nothing. It doesn't represent the real world of the stealth wars, because in the real world, Albion (on Excal at least) has a numerical advantage that has a significant impact on the potential performance of the other realms. Because that numerical advantage, that gives a SB or NS more potential targets, also means they'll spend a higher proportion of their time eating dirt after having been ganked by superior numbers.

Ultimately, what all this shows is that making decisions on balancing the stealth wars is the most difficult call of all for Mythic.

Which brings me nicely back to Jox. Jox claimed that this simple statistic *proved* that infi's were overpowered. I think I've shown that in fact you can use stats to "prove" virtually anything.

 

[Gordonax]

Originally posted by Xandax
1) Because there are more and more infils - thus fewer targets per infil, and thus fewer RP to each.

If the amount of infils increase, but the amount of opponets doesn't - then infils as a player base might get more RP when compared to the opponents, but on average per character, they don't.

Looking at in, on the UK servers, there are 1.35 infis for every SB. I'd love to know if that proportion has increased over the past few months...