Paris shootings

[Gwadien]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6zRxSp7t20

fuck.

 

[Mabs]

I agree with what the muslim fella in @Mabs video said.

Now people either have to agree with judging the shooters, and with that agree with a muslim and worse yet, me. Or, say the shooters were right. I might've just invented world peace

and suddenly a black hole opened in the floor

 

[Olgaline]

Here's How Arab Papers Reacted to the 'Charlie Hebdo' Massacre:

http://mic.com/articles/108076/here-s-how-arab-papers-reacted-to-the-charlie-hebdo-massacre

 

[TdC]

Excellent. Glad to see it's only the right wing media/nutters who tar all of Islam with the same brush.

 

[BloodOmen]

 

[Job]

It's not right wing nutters..everyone is being drip fed a suspicion of the culture and it has taken hold in the worst possible place...private conversations where urban myth and prejudice are the chief motivators, a divided society has begun..well it's allready there.but now it has little chance for a generation.
What we need is a pan European dialouge with normal muslims who don't.believe in this bolox.

 

[old.Tohtori]

What we need is a pan European dialouge with normal muslims who don't.believe in this bolox.

What we need is for the "muslims did it" to stop in media and say "this guy did it". Then leave the muslim into racist comments into the comment section where nobody cares.

 

[Job]

Bit hard when they are simply upping the ante on a deeply held belief by most Muslims...belief is the problem...if a Christian extremist went on a shooting spree you would know he was a lone nutter...it's far from that situation with Islam

 

[old.Tohtori]

it's far from that situation with Islam

It's not. It's just that media doesn't mention christian nutters(which there are probably more) and only mention "guy went nuts". Treat muslims(and all other) peeps the same and we're fine.

 

[DaGaffer]

What we need is for the "muslims did it" to stop in media and say "this guy did it". Then leave the muslim into racist comments into the comment section where nobody cares.

But they did it because they were Muslims. It's extremely disingenuous to pretend otherwise.

 

[old.Tohtori]

And that's the problem. Endless cycle and noone wants to break it. Call them shooters with no affiliation to race/religion and that's that. No amrtyrs, no racewars, just people doing bad sh*t.

Knowing they are muslim accomplishes nothing.

And i'd still argue they didn't go on a shooting spree because they're muslims. That's just saying like being muslim is a preset terrorist path.

 

[caLLous]

If they weren't Muslims then they wouldn't have had any "right" to be offended by the published cartoons.

 

[Gwadien]

The point is, if they're followers of Islam, they should be offended by the cartoons, because it does say that one of the main things they can't do is depict Mohammed.

That being said, we're looking to encourage the progressional modern Muslims who still hold (I'd argue) the majority of positions of power and authority in Islam.

I was also told by a Muslim that in a nutshell if you find yourself living in a place of 'non-believers' you will not get hate for following the rules & laws of that place, thus meaning that in fact you can completely abandon your religion in public, and you won't end up in hell.

 

[Wij]

The point is, if they're followers of Islam, they should be offended by the cartoons, because it does say that one of the main things they can't do is depict Mohammed.

That being said, we're looking to encourage the progressional modern Muslims who still hold (I'd argue) the majority of positions of power and authority in Islam.

I was also told by a Muslim that in a nutshell if you find yourself living in a place of 'non-believers' you will not get hate for following the rules & laws of that place, thus meaning that in fact you can completely abandon your religion in public, and you won't end up in hell.

Not necessarily so:

http://www.themuslimtimes.org/2015/...hment-for-abusing-the-prophet-2#ixzz3OK5GFTn8

Also, I think people often make the mistake of thinking that Islam has one canonical interpretation of its texts like the Catholic Church. It doesn't work that way.

 

[caLLous]

And in any case, non-Muslims can do what they like - they're not bound by any rules about what they can and can't depict.

 

[Hawkwind]

Queen Noor has been telling Muslim's to own the narrative of their culture and religion, to take it back from extremists. I think she has a point, we really only see bad things these days and there does not appear to be much balance. It is for them to write and speak out.

 

[Gwadien]

Queen Noor has been telling Muslim's to own the narrative of their culture and religion, to take it back from extremists. I think she has a point, we really only see bad things these days and there does not appear to be much balance. It is for them to write and speak out.

Queen Noor, the American Queen of Saudi Arabia is telling Saudis what to do with their religion?

Cool.

 

[Hawkwind]

Queen Noor, the American Queen of Saudi Arabia is telling Saudis what to do with their religion?

Cool.

Jordan, nothing to do with Saudi. She has a point and seems people are being positive about her message which was featured in several Arab papers.

 

[Gwadien]

Jordan, nothing to do with Saudi. She has a point and seems people are being positive about her message which was featured in several Arab papers.

Yeah, but that doesn't matter if you're going to reach out to the moderates you need to reach out to everyone, including those on the 'line' to fall to extremism, and when it's an American Woman saying it, they might be like lulwut?

 

[Olgaline]

one of the main things they can't do is depict Mohammed.

Only since 2005 has that ever been a "main thing" for any Sunni muslim.
Most Sunni Muslims (85%) believe that visual depictions of all the prophets of Islam should be prohibited and are particularly averse to visual representations of Muhammad.
Why? The key concern is that the use of images can encourage idolatry.

In Shia Islam, (15%) however, images of Muhammad are quite common. The question of whether images in Islamic art, including those depicting Muhammad, can be considered as religious art remains a matter of contention among scholars.


Facts are so important

 

[Job]

I see the wife of one of the terrorist leader came from France to Britain (on the dole) because France wasn't Islamic enough for her, she feels more comfortable over here in her Islamic enclave, which is just about the best evidence of the cultural divide that exists.

 

[Gwadien]

Only since 2005 has that ever been a "main thing" for any Sunni muslim. Most Sunni Muslims (85%)believe that visual depictions of all the prophets of Islam should be prohibited and are particularly averse to visual representations of Muhammad. The key concern is that the use of images can encourage idolatry. In Shia Islam, (15%) however, images of Muhammad are quite common. The question of whether images in Islamic art, including those depicting Muhammad, can be considered as religious art remains a matter of contention among scholars.


Facts are so important

Well yeah, a lot of the wings of the protestant church aren't allowed to have images in their churches, it's meant to be bare.

In the modern day that has changed, and you'll find that those Sunni's who aren't involved in the Sunni Vs Shia fighting won't be -that- bothered about having images of Mohammed (IE the ones in the West.)

But the ones where it matters, IE, the Middle East and Africa (Boko Haram) obviously need to defend their religion, so therefore they're going to be even more conservative about their religions point of views.

on the dole.

You're such a fucking daily mail reader, she's clearly a terrible person, but let's just point out that all these terrorists are on the dole too, lmfao.

 

[Olgaline]

But the ones where it matters, IE, the Middle East and Africa (Boko Haram) obviously need to defend their religion, so therefore they're going to be even more conservative about their religions point of views.

I really hope you dont belive that the likes of Boko Haram, in any way, shape or form represent the views of any thing close to resembling the african majority?
Boko Haram is a very, very, very, very small, but very well (militarily equiped) faction.

 

[Gwadien]

I really hope you dont belive that the likes of Boko Haram, in any way, shape or form represent the views of any thing close to resembling the african majority?
Boko Haram is a very, very, very, very small, but very well (militarily equiped) faction.

Nah, I was saying that Boko Haram is the example of this point of view in Africa.

I was using it for geographical reasons really.

 

[sayward]

There is no way GIGN and RAID were going to let those killers live. Especially after seeing a video of them executing a VTT gendarme . I have a horrid feeling the English police would've talked to them about their civil liberties and rights to a family life.

I Feel I'm slightly more emotional about this than you lot are. I have lived in Paris on and off for the last 15 years. It's a place I love, in a country I love, with many people I love. It all happened round the corner from one of my flats. I cannot get into the reasons for it all I am just soul sick that it has happened for any reason. I am distraught for the place and for my friends whatever race, whatever religion.

 

[DaGaffer]

Not necessarily so:

http://www.themuslimtimes.org/2015/...hment-for-abusing-the-prophet-2#ixzz3OK5GFTn8

Also, I think people often make the mistake of thinking that Islam has one canonical interpretation of its texts like the Catholic Church. It doesn't work that way.

Of course it doesn't, and Shia Moslems in particular have a different view on images altogether. But, whether Toht likes it or not, the reason why those guys shot 10 cartoonists is because they were moslem. That was their motive.

 

[throdgrain]

What we need is for the "muslims did it" to stop in media and say "this guy did it". Then leave the muslim into racist comments into the comment section where nobody cares.

That is a big old lot of bollocks by the way.

 

[Gwadien]

That is a big old lot of bollocks by the way.

Yep, it is a load of bollocks.

I suppose those soldiers from Christian Nations on the crusade against Islam is also bollocks?

 

[Gumbo]

But, whether Toht likes it or not, the reason why those guys shot 10 cartoonists is because they were moslem. That was their motive.

Their motive, but also their excuse. I don't think for a minute that if Charlie Hebdo had, perhaps, gone bust and stopped printing a year ago, that these two nutters wouldn't have just moved on to another excuse/target.

I don't think it was necessarily these cartoons which got them all tooled up and shooting. It was their misguided beliefs. I don't imagine they considered for a second all the free speech arguments, and the consequences of their acts on that. They simply saw a target which they could use to legitimise themselves. I don't think they'd have stayed good little terrorists at home playing Call of Duty, if Charlie Hebdo and blasphemous cartoons hadn't existed. They'd have still ended up going out, shooting shit up, and then martyring themselves, because that is who they had become.

 

[BloodOmen]

Muslim Policeman that was killed's brother speaks.