Paris shootings

[BloodOmen]

 

[Scouse]

That cartoon hasn't applied to us for a long time.

We do not have free speech in this country - and when I've used that principle on these very forums I've had people argue against that stance...

 

[Scouse]

What some of you don't seem to realise you are saying, Scouse in particular, is in effect, we attacked them so they are allowed to attack us back.

I've *never* said that.


@Urgat - m8 - I know exactly what your saying. What I'm saying is that organised religion is set up to allow interpretations that provide for the mobilisation of believers. Whether it's chrsitians in the crusades, muslims in jihad or buddhists in Sri Lanka (and elsewhere).

Books of Faith aren't written by love-your-brother hippies. They're written with something in mind - and war is part of that something.

Edit: I'd add politicians (or basically "leaders") to that "fundamentalists" group you're on about...

 

[SilverHood]

Sad news. They call it an attack on free speech, but it's an attack on the State that allows such free speech. With the amount of militarily trained jihadi's returning from Syria, it will only be a matter of time before they strike again.

Salmon Rushie said it best:
"Religion, a mediaeval form of unreason, when combined with modern weaponry becomes a real threat to our freedoms. This religious totalitarianism has caused a deadly mutation in the heart of Islam and we see the tragic consequences in Paris today. I stand with Charlie Hebdo, as we all must, to defend the art of satire, which has always been a force for liberty and against tyranny, dishonesty and stupidity. ‘Respect for religion’ has become a code phrase meaning ‘fear of religion.’ Religions, like all other ideas, deserve criticism, satire, and, yes, our fearless disrespect.”

 

[DaGaffer]

Poppycock m8. We're currently redefining what the Koran says. War is part of most religions as their respective gospels are written in a way that people at the top can use them to take people to war. It's part of the reason for existence of organised religion.

There is actually no restriction on the creation of images of the Prophet in the Koran (which is the justification for this attack). There are supplementary hadith that warn against it because it can lead to idolatry, but its not a rule in Islam. Just like the wearing of the burka and other bullshit which is apparently a rule but isn't.

 

[BloodOmen]

quite a lot of drawings with powerful messages popping up, I hope they keep popping up as well to show that they aren't going to stick their heads in the sand because some murdering cunts want them to.

 

[old.Tohtori]

We do not have free speech in this country

You don't support it either.

On the thread itself; people were killed. Reasons behind it make as much sense as someone killing others out of money, power, lust, or greed. Yapping about the reasons only takes away two things; blame from the person responsible and memory of the fallen.

 

[Hawkwind]

The crusades are so far removed they don't have a bearing. The current crisis started in earnest with the first gulf war. Even then - there was no need to go in again to remove Saddam - he'd been defeated and was no terrorist threat. That was purely a war of greed.

Agree on Saddam. Regards Crusaders, it is a general slur used by radicals and extremists against all westerners. ISIL have many times referred to the coalition as crusaders trying to use history to galvanize hatred by young uninformed Muslims. They refer to western aggression for over a 1000 years. They have a very distorted view of history such as the Moors conquest of North Africa and southern EU particularly Spain. Their history teaches it was all a peaceful takeover using nothing but the words and teachings of Allah. It's misguided and incorrect but many including people in my own office believe this to be true.

Totally agree that support of a radical state like Israel is not helping and the plight of the Palestinians is a huge draw for extremist propaganda and recruitment. A fundamental belief in Islam is the protection of their Muslim brothers. Which considering what ISIL is doing in Northern IRAQ is a joke along with the whole Sunni/Shiite mess. Very complicated and a total bloody mess.

 

[CorNokZ]

The 18y old apparently gave himself up. Weird thing is that his classmates say it can't be him since he was at school when the shootings took place...

 

[old.Tohtori]

The 18y old apparently gave himself up. Weird thing is that his classmates say it can't be him since he was at school when the shootings took place...

´Could be a scapegoat, where taking the blame gives his family X amount of stuffs. Not unheard of.

 

[leggy]

Poppycock m8. We're currently redefining what the Koran says. War is part of most religions as their respective gospels are written in a way that people at the top can use them to take people to war. It's part of the reason for existence of organised religion.

I never said anything about how we define, redefine or interpret a religion. I said the 'teachings' of Islam don't promote the random killing of people in the street with guns and they don't - this comes from someone more familiar with the text than me. And who are these people at the 'top' you refer to? Using religion as justification is not the same as correct or sane interpretation.

We're talking about a group of extremists who are using a religion as justification for executing people who in the eyes of any sane person haven't done anything wrong.

I'm not saying it's not worse since our endless military campaigns in the Middle East but don't try to tell me that the Qur'an is The valid context for murder.

 

[Himse]

Scouse vs Freddyshouse

 

[Gwadien]

As soon as this happened I was going to say UKIP are going to milk the shit out of this, turns out I wasn't wrong.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30726491

 

[Raven]

Well you have the ultimate handwringer vs the ultimate ballbag, ofc comments are going to be made.

 

[Yoni]

Gunmen now in the area of our head office in France.... Sorry but I will not accept this kind of bloodshed is the fault of religion and tbh I am quite sick of hearing this as a reason to kill people. Again I have many close Muslim friends who are outraged by this crap. Have you any idea what their lives become after wankers like this decide to go on a rampage?? Unlike Catholics during the crap IRA years peaceful Muslims can be easily identified and harassed / bullied / hurt and god forbid killed as a backlash to this nonsense... I have no other words for these extremists except fucking retards as this level of violence does absolutely fuck all to help their 'cause'

 

[caLLous]

Tell that to those who shout "God is great" while killing people.

 

[Job]

It's getting very bad, a policewoman killed...gas canister bombs at a railway station..they seem to be doing a Thelma and Louise...as one reporter put it..this will ring for a generation.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Gunmen now in the area of our head office in France.... Sorry but I will not accept this kind of bloodshed is the fault of religion and tbh I am quite sick of hearing this as a reason to kill people. Again I have many close Muslim friends who are outraged by this crap. Have you any idea what their lives become after wankers like this decide to go on a rampage?? Unlike Catholics during the crap IRA years peaceful Muslims can be easily identified and harassed / bullied / hurt and god forbid killed as a backlash to this nonsense... I have no other words for these extremists except fucking retards as this level of violence does absolutely fuck all to help their 'cause'

And the backlash people generalising muslims are just as bad of an influence as the extremists on the whole west vs muslim issue. "We" bomb them, "they" get angry and extremists do stuff back, we use brush on everyone of same beardcolor, more people angry, more extremists, more retaliation, more brushes, moronum repeatum infinitum.

Tell that to those who shout "God is great" while killing people.

If someone was yelling "Tolo anin naur!" while bombing a pizzahut, would that make it Tolkiens fault?

 

[leggy]

Scouse vs Freddyshouse

He loves it he does

 

[leggy]

If someone was yelling "Tolo anin naur!" while bombing a pizzahut, would that make it Tolkiens fault?

Credible... those Elves bloody hate anchovies on their pizzas.

 

[Job]

No..but if 20% of your country was a 'race' of people who followed a middle Earth religion you would be right to be suspicious.

 

[Gwadien]

And the backlash people generalising muslims are just as bad of an influence as the extremists on the whole west vs muslim issue. "We" bomb them, "they" get angry and extremists do stuff back, we use brush on everyone of same beardcolor, more people angry, more extremists, more retaliation, more brushes, moronum repeatum infinitum.

Abso fucking lutely

 

[Raven]

Muslims aren't a race ffs.

 

[Job]

Thats why I put it in brackets chump.

 

[Raven]

Well it is or it isn't...putting it in brackets (that aren't) doesn't make any difference.

According to the 2011 census 4.4% of the population of the UK are Muslim, probably half that actually practice it.

Muslims can be from any race. Probably most of those funny brown people you dislike so much are actually Hindus.

Asians and British born Asians 7.8% and black 3.5%

Your numbers don't even come close to adding up.

 

[leggy]

Thats why I put it in brackets chump.

Those aren't brackets chump

 

[old.Tohtori]

No..but if 20% of your country was a 'race' of people who followed a middle Earth religion you would be right to be suspicious.

You wouldn't be right at all. You would be right to suspect that the person running in was a tolkien fanatic(which you'd have to prove also first), but that's as far as the suspicion should go. That person, and that person alone. The buck should end at the person doing it.

Even if Raven is right that it's not a race thing; Anyone here who thinks it's right that a black guy driving a mercedes gets pulled over easier then a white guy?

No? Good. Case closed.

 

[leggy]

I love those little arguments between you and yourself.

 

[old.Tohtori]

I love those little arguments between you and yourself.

Can't agree with that really.

 

[Yoni]

Have you read the backlash reports? 2 shots ifred at s muslim prayer room, Muslim family shot at in their car, dummy grenades thrown at a mosque, death to Arabs daubed on the door to a mosque and an attack on a kebab shop.., on the Bbc. Sadly this is just the beginning. As I said fucking retards