Offensive Muslim cartoon!

[Ironfalcon]

Can you read..

Okie.. for every one who said,that newspaper where muslim haters, just provoking, offensive towards other relegion, and all the other bullcrap people have been saying.. take 5 mins of your so busy schedule, and read this article.. R E A D!

http://www.jp.dk/udland/artikel:aid=3544932:fid=11328/

Heres a little from the article.. but read the whole thing.. it explains a lot

Danish author Kaare Bluitken wrote a primarily educational children's book about the prophet Mohammed, but ran into problems trying to find an illustrator. Certain interpretations of Islam find it inappropriate or directly forbid pictures of the prophet. Eventually, an illustrator did agree to work on the book, but only under the cloak of anonymity.

If the newspaper had chosen instead to refrain from publishing drawings of Muslim religious symbols, this in itself could have been interpreted as an expression of discrimination against Muslims

 

[Narzeja]

Okie.. for every one who said,that newspaper where muslim haters, just provoking, offensive towards other relegion, and all the other bullcrap people have been saying.. take 5 mins of your so busy schedule, and read this article.. R E A D!

http://www.jp.dk/udland/artikel:aid=3544932:fid=11328/

Heres a little from the article.. but read the whole thing.. it explains a lot

Thank you ! rep for you! :worthy:

 

[n00b]

Luckily you said "our".

'cause i don't believe in christianity,for all i care they can burn down anyones church if it's so much in their mind.

As long as i get my respect, as in no slander, for my religion(where the free speech comes along), i don't mind what religion people believe in.

Allthough christianity deems every other religion paganist, where as some, like viking way of life, believes each man to their own.

viking way of life..... wtf has vikings done for us today, not a shit and no one cares about vikings because to history they have meant shit, it was christianity that made society what it is today in europe, it was christian morals and laws that gave us the freedom of so many things, so start showing some gratitude ffs...your lucky you live in a "christian" country.
I'm not a fanatic or anything, but i atleast know what gave me so much in life

 

[Tasslehoff]

viking way of life..... wtf has vikings done for us today, not a shit and no one cares about vikings because to history they have meant shit, it was christianity that made society what it is today in europe, it was christian morals and laws that gave us the freedom of so many things, so start showing some gratitude ffs...your lucky you live in a "christian" country.
I'm not a fanatic or anything, but i atleast know what gave me so much in life

IT was their belief back then, that made them conquer so much. Show gratitude... Towards who? The ones believing in Christianity? They concept of Christianity? How do you show gratitude towards that, if I don't agree with it, I don't have to show anything for it. Who the hell are you to demand that?

Religions have their place in history, Hitler has his place, I don't have to show them Gratitude because of that.

 

[noblok]

AND one more thing, muslim RELIGION states its even a crime to make a NORMAL picture of muhammed, let alone a offensive one.

It doesn't say so in the Quran. If I'm not mistaken the rule which they use to condemn pictures of Mohammed is that you may not produce/worship any idols. I don't really see how you can consider a cartoon as an idol though, let alone an offensive one .

It still was most inconsiderate of Jyllands Posten to publish these pictures, but what's done is done and people should just get on with it.

 

[tris-]

why is it inconsiderate? the country is denmark, afaik denmark is not a muslim/islamic country. am i wrong? or did it turn that way the day before the news papers published these pictures?

what im saying is - wtf does it have to do with anyone else when something is done in denmark? i dont like it in the muslim countries that they make their woman cover up and stone them to death.

I DEMAND CHANGE, ITS OFFENSIVE TO ME!

fact is, its nothing to do with me. i live in england, not there.

 

[Tasslehoff]

i dont like it in the muslim countries that they make their woman cover up and stone them to death.

Kind of ironic countries with this culture are telling Denmark about respect.

 

[tris-]

Kind of ironic countries with this culture are telling Denmark about respect.

woot, someone understood me.

probably because its religion. and you cant question religion!

question religion and your country will bombed by the religious them selves.

 

[noblok]

Because deliberately provoking people, knowing that you will insult them is inconsiderate. There also live muslims in Denmark, but I suppose that since the newspaper isn't a muslim newspaper it's got nothing to do with them either? Or maybe Denmark is a christian country, so everyone who lives there should be christian or just shut up?

We live in a globalised society, time and space don't matter anymore. Things published in Denmark can be read in Iran, so there is a risk that it offends Iranians. I never said you can't be offended by what happens in muslim countries either. If you are insulted, it's only normal to expect for apologies and if it wasn't your intention to insult someone it's only normal to offer them, if you unintentionally did.

 

[Ironfalcon]

Because deliberately provoking people, knowing that you will insult them is inconsiderate. There also live muslims in Denmark, but I suppose that since the newspaper isn't a muslim newspaper it's got nothing to do with them either? Or maybe Denmark is a christian country, so everyone who lives there should be christian or just shut up?

We live in a globalised society, time and space don't matter anymore. Things published in Denmark can be read in Iran, so there is a risk that it offends Iranians. I never said you can't be offended by what happens in muslim countries either. If you are insulted, it's only normal to expect for apologies and if it wasn't your intention to insult someone it's only normal to offer them, if you unintentionally did.

well.. everyone in this country, pays money to the christian church, wether you like it or not.. so yes you could say that we are christian country, with a freedom to choose what relegion you have, but you still have to pay, to the church... and yes, things posted in the danish newspapers, can be read in Iran.. Flame the Paper, Not the country! (and the paper, have said, they are sorry.. many times! ) It would be like me beating up the a random pizzaman, because I think domino's sucks... thats just wrong...

 

[Benedictine]

I have followed this thread closely - its interesting to see other countries with similar perceptions and problems to those we face in the UK.

There's little to add but that if you want to have a voice and not become simply frustrated posters on an rpg forum - then you must use your vote to effect political change.

• If you think that we should or shouldnt bend our national laws to take account of a religious point of view
  
• If you disagree with discrimnation (either positive or negative discrimination favouring/against minority/majority groups)
  
• If you feel angry about flag burning/cartoon publishing/cultural clashes and riots

Then - you must vote at your next local and national elections - it's called democracy and it's the only thing that terrorists and fundementalists are afraid of.

Somebody once said that the people get the government they deserve - there's a few countries around the world suddenly waking up to the fact that the one they have isn't all they thought it was.

 

[tris-]

then every muslim country that stones women to death should appologise to the world for offending everyone.

why do you have this idea it was delibrate provocation? i would love to read your source where it has quoted the people in question as saying that.

basically what your saying is - dont do anything for your self because it will offend a few people thouasands of miles away? EVERYTHING we do will offend someone else.

i watch tv on a friday - jews will be offended
i eat bacon - that will offend the muslims
i dont goto church - that will offend the catholics
i have had sex before marriage - that will offend the catholics/christians
i have impure thoughts
etc

i can go on. do i do these things on purpose to offend people? no.
did the danish press release those pictures to only cause offence? no.

if you live another country, you should follow what that country does. otherwise what the fuck are you doing there? im not going to move to iraq then complain i dont like it because they set off car bombs and kill each other.
i wont move to amsterdam and complain i dont like it that people can freely smoke and grow cannabis.
i wont move to china and complain about their censorship.

if i did - then should china completley change just for me?

 

[Ironfalcon]

then every muslim country that stones women to death should appologise to the world for offending everyone.

why do you have this idea it was delibrate provocation? i would love to read your source where it has quoted the people in question as saying that.

basically what your saying is - dont do anything for your self because it will offend a few people thouasands of miles away? EVERYTHING we do will offend someone else.

i watch tv on a friday - jews will be offended
i eat bacon - that will offend the muslims
i dont goto church - that will offend the catholics
i have had sex before marriage - that will offend the catholics/christians
i have impure thoughts
etc

i can go on. do i do these things on purpose to offend people? no.
did the danish press release those pictures to only cause offence? no.

if you live another country, you should follow what that country does. otherwise what the fuck are you doing there? im not going to move to iraq then complain i dont like it because they set off car bombs and kill each other.
i wont move to amsterdam and complain i dont like it that people can freely smoke and grow cannabis.
i wont move to china and complain about their censorship.

if i did - then should china completley change just for me?

This is actually also funny.. When the french made that law that forbid any relegious items that could be seen(only fllowed this briefly, on the news, but I think it was something along that) The muslims where like.. OMG you racist.. burn in hell!!!!!!

okie lets see.. when an lets say a danish woman goes to Saudi Arabia.. they have to cover up their hair and face.. Why? because tis the law... and even in some muslim countries, woman can not vote, they can not drive, they can stay home, give birth to children, do the houseworking.. Muslims dont mind using our freedom in Europe, but they demand, that our freedom is taken away, from us when we visit them...

word Ironic springs to my mind

 

[noblok]

Ironfalcon: yes, I said before that the reactions were over the top. Asking for apologies from the newspapper/editor is normal, all the rest is not. I am not defending what these extremists are doing.

Tris-: indeed, everything you do will offend people and if they tell you you're offending them it's only right to say "I'm sorry I offended you, but I'm not sorry for my actions." There's a subtle difference: I'm not saying that you should act in a way which doesn't offend anyone, that's impossible. I just don't agree with deliberately insulting people.

I really doubt that the newspaper didn't want to provoke to gain some publicity, but I admit that I have no solid proof to support this statement. It's just that, if they didn't, then why did it take them so long to offer their apologies?

"When you go to a country you should accept the rules from that country." I agree partially, if you go to a country you know full well what the laws/rules in that country are and if you don't agree with them, you shouldn't go there. Breaking these rules/laws in a situation which doesn't morally force you to is, in my opinion, wrong. I don't think there's a perfect country though, so everyone has the right to complain about certain rules.

Then again, I'm a bit old fashioned and believe in a universal morale. So when you move to China, you shouldn't expect China to change for you, but because they do things which are morally wrong. It's idealistic and a lot of people don't believe in a universal morale, but that's my view on things .

 

[tris-]

exactly, china should not change for me.

european countries that are not inherently islam/muslim/etc should not change just because of a few people moving in.

like in england, somewhere was band for hanging a st george flag. why, because the local ethnic minorities didnt like it.
the fact that st george is from the east didnt even cross their minds. just because they didnt like, a part of england had to change its culture and traditions.

now if i take 100 people to live in a muslim country and 50 of those were women, the 50 women would have to cover up etc. if we all make a scene, the countries government wont change anything.

 

[Karl]

Things published in Denmark can be read in Iran

Probably cant be to be honnest Iran have one of the most censored internets in the world... thier government really does not like them viewing other countries oppinions on them.

Having said that, this was pre the new government there, i dont know what its like now.

 

[Job]

Talking about Christians being offended, unlikely, not when you can buy Virgin Mary snowdomes at the Vatican.

We are called Christians , but very few of us believe in Christ, we roll out 'Christian' to describe our laughable self belief that that somehow means we are nice to people.
Your average British Joe is nice in the 'I'll help you with that girl', and 'Take my car I'll get the bus' kind of way, but we are still rascist. homophobic, xenophobic and we think Arabs are sweaty ragasses who need a good kicking.

There is no outcry against the ridicule of our religion because no-one believes it anymore, in fact we would are equally amused by British 'Churchy' types who complain about that kind of stuff.

It's over-forget it..dead in the water..science won, medieval superstition and indoctrination lost.

 

[tris-]

We are called Christians , but very few of us believe in Christ, we roll out 'Christian' to describe our laughable self belief that that somehow means we are nice to people.
Your average British Joe is nice in the 'I'll help you with that girl', and 'Take my car I'll get the bus' kind of way, but we are still rascist. homophobic, xenophobic and we think Arabs are sweaty ragasses who need a good kicking.

btw, Job doesnt speak for all us english people when he says this

 

[noblok]

european countries that are not inherently islam/muslim/etc should not change just because of a few people moving in.

I didn't say they should. Unless offering apologies when you unintentionally offend someone is a change, in that case I think they should change. I'm not saying that this should be enforced by the government, forced apologies are worthless anyway, but I think it should be considered normal practice to offer your apologies when you unintentionally insult someone.

 

[tris-]

so just to clear up -

do you think the english people, in the english town, should not be allowed to hang up a FLAG because a minority of people moved there (knowing full well they are moving to england, and what our flag looks like) and didnt like it?

unless, we are to believe the ethnic minority people moved there not knowing it was england they moved to?

i think the second thing is really lol if its true. if it is true then how can they possibly complain?

so do you think the people should be forced to not hang the flag, because imigrants didnt like it?

btw, i dont follow your rules of appologies. maybe its just me, but saying sorry isnt the ultimate thing and most of the time is a worthless word. if i hang a st george flag out my window and a non-english person says "take it down, i find it offensive". well i am not going to say sorry, sorry is for when you did something wrong. i believe its more correct to say something like "its ashame you dont like this, but this is england. in england this is our flag".

 

[Ezteq]

ezteq, why did you slap me and then continue to damn me?

because ive been taking lots of painkillers and had a dream where i was in bed whisking an egg.


needless to say i hold you responsible.

 

[Ironfalcon]

I just lost 8 grand in a poker game, while reading FH.. wasent really paying attention.. All in means you place all you got.. apperently..

 

[Ezteq]

what i wonder about is everyones going on about the innocent muslims who are peaceful and disagree with the behaviour of these radical ones...

erm where are they? if i was a member of a religion/organisation who were acting in a way that made my belief look bad (i.e rioting, death threats, burning buildings/flags etc) i'd be out there shouting twice as loud as them for them to pack it in and behave, imo its just as bad (if not worse) to turn a blind eye and allow folk to behave like that and you cant call them the innocent bystanders if all they do is stand to the side and do nothing about it.......

oh sorry occasionally you might get a "we condemn this behaviour" speech but thats all folks.

 

[noblok]

so just to clear up -

do you think the english people, in the english town, should not be allowed to hang up a FLAG because a minority of people moved there (knowing full well they are moving to england, and what our flag looks like) and didnt like it?

I don't. For one I think it's silly to be offended by such a thing, but even taking that out of the equation (because it's highly personal) I still think everyone has the right to do what they want as long as they don't limit other people in their right to do what they want. I think a muslim should have the right to hang up an islamic flag as well.

I see your point on "sorry" having to do something with doing something wrong. I just think you should apolgise for unwanted effects of your actions as well. True, you did not want to achieve that effect, but you achieved it anyway and should take responsibility for that. With taking responsibility I mean: a) accepting that you have offended someone and b) making clear to the person you offended that it wasn't your intention to offend them.

It's a bit like making a joke about someone's relative and then finding out that relative recently died and schocking the person you told the joke. I would apologise for the effect of the joke, but I wouldn't apologise for the joke itself since couldn't possibly know that the person I made a joke about recently died.

Ezteq: what more than a "we condemn this behaviour speech" can they do then?

 

[tris-]

imo, i cant see how me hanging a flag and a muslim being offended is my fault.

who has the problem? its them. the flag is not offensive, i am not an offensive person at all. they have their own personal issue. which is a problem for them only.

on the other hand, if i called that person names (you know the names i mean), then that is offensive. the words are offensive. i would be acting offensive.

depends how you look at it really. i dont see hanging a flag to be offensive to anyone.
unless its like a neo-fascist hanging a swastika flag, a jew would find it offensive. which is obviously completley different to the flag of a country.

 

[Karl]

what i wonder about is everyones going on about the innocent muslims who are peaceful and disagree with the behaviour of these radical ones...

erm where are they? if i was a member of a religion/organisation who were acting in a way that made my belief look bad (i.e rioting, death threats, burning buildings/flags etc) i'd be out there shouting twice as loud as them for them to pack it in and behave, imo its just as bad (if not worse) to turn a blind eye and allow folk to behave like that and you cant call them the innocent bystanders if all they do is stand to the side and do nothing about it.......

oh sorry occasionally you might get a "we condemn this behaviour" speech but thats all folks.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/4699716.stm


The BBC's Jonathan Kent in Kuala Lumpur says that if this speech had been made by a firebrand or a radical it might more easily be dismissed as rhetoric, but Mr Abdullah has been avidly calling for Muslims worldwide to embrace education, science, technology and development, while rejecting extremism.

 

[old.Tohtori]

viking way of life..... wtf has vikings done for us today, not a shit and no one cares about vikings because to history they have meant shit, it was christianity that made society what it is today in europe, it was christian morals and laws that gave us the freedom of so many things, so start showing some gratitude ffs...your lucky you live in a "christian" country.
I'm not a fanatic or anything, but i atleast know what gave me so much in life

I'd be luckier if the viking way, that was brutally murdered by christianity, was still in effect. Freedom is just a "cover up" since you don't know real freedom. Hell, vikings had one functioning society in scandinavia long before any "united states" or "europian union" was around.

If christianity made society what it is, take a look at society: The homeless, school bullies, children picked on because of race or religion, murders, drugs...list goes on endless, i don't think christianity can use that as a marketing puf.

Why should i show gratitude to a religion that destroyed mine all those years ago and shoved theirs down our throats.

And if wewant to scorecard things: Where was christianity when we fought for our independece in 1940? If it was the viking way still, sweden, norway, denmark...to name a few...would have helped.

Bottom line...don't come in and judge my way of life against yours. You have, no, f*cking, right.

 

[noblok]

In the end it all depends on the person being offended, in the end it's you who decide to be offended. Different people get offended by different things, some people get more easily offended than others, that's just how it is.

Calling people names and hanging up a flag are indeed different things: when you call people names you deliberately want to offend them, when you hang up a flag you don't. Both actions can offend people though. Unreasonable? Yes, but it's something we should just accept. I personally find it silly to be offended by something which wasn't meant to offend, but that's just me.

 

[tris-]

imo, i dont think they really were offended. but it did show that just because a minority doesnt like something then a majority can be forced to change to suite them. really shows how fucked up england is in some ways.

i do not know of any history behind the st george flag that would cause a follower of islam to be offended by it. yet they claim they were. that to me just make it seem like they lied about it being offensive.

 

[old.Tohtori]

imo, i dont think they really were offended. but it did show that just because a minority doesnt like something then a majority can be forced to change to suite them. really shows how fucked up england is in some ways.

Then again, it's not always a bad thing.

Rosa Parks anyone?