Now that most of the whiners have left, the cluster seems pretty much alive and kicki

[MaCaBr3]

elitist talk.

Man, I don't know you, but you do come over as elitist prick you know...

Don't get me wrong, I always enjoyed watching the "our group" fights and I respect your opinion, you're just missing one gigantic point: this game was not designed in no way to be a purely 8v8 game. It was designed to have only 8 characters in a group and that's where it stops. Besides this specific hardcoded rule, the point of the game is to kill enemys, no matter how. This game was in no way designed for specific only 8v8 fights thus people like you - who enjoy 8v8 fights - starting making purist rules. Nothing wrong with that, there are other people who play like 8v8 so they follow these rules. The worst part is that you blaim every one who doesn't follow your unwritten rules. There's a shitload of players who play this game differentely you know, the way it was ment to be played: just kill on site.

People who enjoy dueling and 8v8 made it fun for themself, but they also spoiled allot of the fun for average joe. AND THE OTHER WAY ARROUND.

I'm just the guy in between: ofcourse, I don't like to get gank by a stealthzerg, ofcourse I don't like it when someone comes helping me without me screaming for help. But the thing is that I don't blaim them and I don't care as much as you guys. Why can't you respect that?

 

[Septina]

Man, I don't know you, but you do come over as elitist prick you know...

Don't get me wrong, I always enjoyed watching the "our group" fights and I respect your opinion, you're just missing one gigantic point: this game was not designed in no way to be a purely 8v8 game. It was designed to have only 8 characters in a group and that's where it stops. Besides this specific hardcoded rule, the point of the game is to kill enemys, no matter how. This game was in no way designed for specific only 8v8 fights thus people like you - who enjoy 8v8 fights - starting making purist rules. Nothing wrong with that, there are other people who play like 8v8 so they follow these rules. The worst part is that you blaim every one who doesn't follow your unwritten rules. There's a shitload of players who play this game differentely you know, the way it was ment to be played: just kill on site.

People who enjoy dueling and 8v8 made it fun for themself, but they also spoiled allot of the fun for average joe. AND THE OTHER WAY ARROUND.

I'm just the guy in between: ofcourse, I don't like to get gank by a stealthzerg, ofcourse I don't like it when someone comes helping me without me screaming for help. But the thing is that I don't blaim them and I don't care as much as you guys. Why can't you respect that?

Mutual respect mebbe?
Why in gods name should the people that play for even fights respect that there are other people that want to zerg/add/steamroll or whatever everything in sight when these people obviously dont respect the 'fair fighters'? :X

This game is as you said not made for even fights but somehow i'm having a hard time thinking that anyone can get a rush from killing someone or some group while outnumbering them 5 to 1.

In the end i guess the 'elitist rp farming bastards' and the 'common joe' will never get along on ingame terms.

 

[MaCaBr3]

In the end i guess the 'elitist rp farming bastards' and the 'common joe' will never get along on ingame terms.

That's was gonna be my closure of my speech, but I forgot to type it for some reaon. But well said

 

[kivik]

And to add something to that high RR vs. low RR discussion.

Zergers are no longer brehons, vaktens or wardens. They are thunderers, herra/fru and knights. Shouldn't be a problem if RR means so much?

-.-

 

[charmangle]

Here is my 5 cents..

ofcuz RR matters .. but what i think VF is saying is that teamwork/skill/tactics outweights RR by far .. that statement dossent mean that RR dun matter at all .. just that the other factors determines the fights outcome more than the differance in RR..

And for the groups/guilds that left for Avalon .. our guild for example have been getting plenty of spanking .. though i hardly think that is coz of the RR .. after rr4-5 it really dun matter that much .. but got more to do that we play a new realm and have a few new players etc .. im not to sure .. but i think that the most guilds that rerolled play different realm than they did on cluster.

I kinda agree with you, but do you really think you would get as much spanked (in %age) as you are now, if you only met rr 4-5 groups too?

Im willing to bet that you wouldnt!
It does make a huge difference if the group you are facing is rr 13 and have basic fg vs fg skills, if you are rr4. Skill, communication etc also matters alot, but it depends on the circumstances. Most of the rr10+ groups that have been playing together for a year in 8 vs 8, have learnt the basic rvr skills that are needed to cope, thats not real skill thats just common knowledge in my opinion. Then there is the odd group that have the same common knowledge and they add skillzor to their game too. (and ofc there are you complete tossers who never learn how to stear their chars at all but they are a minority on the 8 vs 8 scene). In this case the skillzor group basically wouldnt stand a chance at rr 4 vs the common knowledge group at rr 13 in my opinion. (during any length of time anyway, meaning they would loose 7 out of 10 faceoffs vs that group)

But as they hit rr 9+ they will most probably start to win about 7 out of 10 or even more...

But to prove a point I dare a group of any realm rank make a vid where they all go to their trainers and do /respec realm, and dont spend any points, then heads out in RvR vs rr10+ groups with all fights during 1 evening recorded. And we would see if they win or loose most fights...that would prove the point for one side or the other! And it wouldnt cost the group much more than the evenings recordings and they would gain a heck of a lot more respec than they get by winning by RAs!

Anyone whos got the skills and balls to pick up the challenge?

/Charmangle

ps. I know for sure I dont have the skills to win that kind of fights, would be fun to see if anyone has!
Not sure its doable here on cluster though, is it? Is there any Alb/Hib rr10+ groups out running to face at all? Maybe Vodka, Stajj and the team would like to make a guest appearance on a monday as RR 0 and face DP/SC and record the evening? ds

 

[Eleasias]

You can get RR3 in a couple days even if you dont play much, and if you're a zergling caster you can get it in a night Expecting to meet any grp thats rr1 is quite ridiculous, and atleast I'm up for playing with everyone respeccing ra's and trying with rr3 abilities on cluster, it prolly wont happen, even for 1 night because every thread here only says fg action is dead and tbh it wouldnt be worth the effort and especially the time. (+12 euroes to open my hib account)

 

[raid]

Overall, active abilities indeed make too big difference, and have too low timer.

But blaming low rr for lack of them is nothing but bullshit. Any ~rr6 group can have pretty much all actives IF they consider the abilities that good.

My merc on avalon had charge3 and purge2 at RR5L5. Sure, I could have taken mastery of pain, aug str, aug con, toughness, determination, etc, and blamed dying on lack of actives. But that would be just stupid excuse.

If relic situation is not neutral, it imbalances the game much more than difference between rr6 and rr11 grp abilitywise, IMO.

 

[Killswitch]

I think I know the answer to this question and I can also see this argument from both sides. I know how annoying it is to have a good 8v8 fight ruined by some noob bow ranger appearing and giving the shaft to everything that moves. I'm going to ask anyway though, since it seems people here are actually thinking and giving intelligent answers to questions;

The 8v8ers say that they zerg down soloers and small groups to protect their playstyle (or fun, if you prefer), because if they don't then the same soloers and small groups will just add on their fights. The soloers and small groups don't show any respect to the 8v8ers playstyle and therefore ruin their enjoyment of the game.

NF is huge...far too big for the current population and I'd be surprised if more than about 10% is used even in primetime on the US Classic Cluster...it's stupidly large. The FG players pick an area to fight in, which is usually Agramon...this gives them a large chance to find other like-minded groups for fun and games. What do the soloers and small groups do? If they use FH or IRC or whatever to nominate an area, sooner or later a bored FG will come and farm them. It's as hard or harder to find a fair solo fight than it is to find a fair 8v8 fight. This, combined with the Prydscal "No PUGging" mentality is what causes the bridge zergs to build up.

So we come to the question...how do players who like to solo, small-group or zerg protect their "it's Red it's Dead" playstyle from the 8v8ers? One thing they do is to camp...it's much harder for an 8man to to storm a tower and kill a zerg than it is for them to kill a load of soloers milling around in a field.

What confuses me is how do the 8man groups who live purely for their 8v8 action end up coming into contact so frequently with The Merry Men and Knights of Pendragon? I don't recall seeing TMM and KOP running many opted groups in Agramon or taking a 2fg zerg into there to add on and farm the 8man groups. All I can assume is that the 8v8 crew occasionally get RP horny and try to either wipe zergs at keeps/towers or roam close to seige and try to kill reinforcements or possibly find other groups who are also roaming near there.

It's possible that "fun" for some people is literally just getting a big bunch of their friends together and running around together having a laugh on TeamSpeak, chasing solo Luris halfway across Breifine, seiging towers, getting seige titles and just messing about.

I used to regularly see Nolby Pride, Groove, RR and other top guilds destroy zergs with 2 or 3 times their number...but it's not a "fair fight" or a challenge particularly or the "proper 8v8" they say they're looking for. It seems to me that the rules for conduct in the Frontiers according the the Honour Players are something like this;

1. Soloers can't attack full-groups but are welcome in zerg fights
2. Zergs can't attack full-groups but are welcome to seige
3. Full-groups can run over soloers to protect their playstyle
4. Full-groups can attack zergs if they feel like it
5. Solo fights should be left alone by 8man groups, but soloers roaming or small-group fights are fair game
6. Zergs shouldn't add on 8v8 fights but 8man groups can jump into the middle of a zerg/seige whenever they want

Trying to get to a keep take and being repeatedly farmed by a speed5 RR7+ guild group roaming near the keep sure as hell ruins MY fun and MY playstyle if I'm a zerging seige-monkey. I'm not sure I see the difference...

 

[Eleasias]

Yeah you have to ask most grps why they leave the fg zone, the grp's I've run with since I started to play again have always been for fg action only (bar a couple exceptions), always last to leave the fg zone. In the end it just became so boring to be there it was a better choice to change server where you could meet more groups than to stay and get bored on cluster. Notice its empty, finish the run in a zergy area and log, rince and repeat.

 

[raid]

It seems to me that the rules for conduct in the Frontiers according the the Honour Players are something like this

Imo there are simply 2 kinds of playstyles:

- prefer fair fights
- prefer fighting for the realm

Both playstyles are perfectly fine. I consider myself as someone who prefers fair fights, and I'd treat all opponents as fair players by default.

However, if I saw a player/group who is known to prefer the realmwar-game, is the any reason why I SHOULDN'T engage? After all, he prefers that kind of playstyle, why not make his game more fun (even if I'd prefer playing differently myself)? Just if the same could be applied the other way around... but rps matter too much to too many people.

 

[Phake]

I kinda agree with you, but do you really think you would get as much spanked (in %age) as you are now, if you only met rr 4-5 groups too?

Im willing to bet that you wouldnt!
It does make a huge difference if the group you are facing is rr 13 and have basic fg vs fg skills, if you are rr4. Skill, communication etc also matters alot, but it depends on the circumstances. Most of the rr10+ groups that have been playing together for a year in 8 vs 8, have learnt the basic rvr skills that are needed to cope, thats not real skill thats just common knowledge in my opinion. Then there is the odd group that have the same common knowledge and they add skillzor to their game too. (and ofc there are you complete tossers who never learn how to stear their chars at all but they are a minority on the 8 vs 8 scene). In this case the skillzor group basically wouldnt stand a chance at rr 4 vs the common knowledge group at rr 13 in my opinion. (during any length of time anyway, meaning they would loose 7 out of 10 faceoffs vs that group)

But as they hit rr 9+ they will most probably start to win about 7 out of 10 or even more...

But to prove a point I dare a group of any realm rank make a vid where they all go to their trainers and do /respec realm, and dont spend any points, then heads out in RvR vs rr10+ groups with all fights during 1 evening recorded. And we would see if they win or loose most fights...that would prove the point for one side or the other! And it wouldnt cost the group much more than the evenings recordings and they would gain a heck of a lot more respec than they get by winning by RAs!

Anyone whos got the skills and balls to pick up the challenge?

/Charmangle

ps. I know for sure I dont have the skills to win that kind of fights, would be fun to see if anyone has!
Not sure its doable here on cluster though, is it? Is there any Alb/Hib rr10+ groups out running to face at all? Maybe Vodka, Stajj and the team would like to make a guest appearance on a monday as RR 0 and face DP/SC and record the evening? ds

ooh yeah ofcuz the RR matters .. none has said that they dont .. but still .. teamwork and skill matters more

 

[Niko]

Overall, active abilities indeed make too big difference, and have too low timer.

But blaming low rr for lack of them is nothing but bullshit. Any ~rr6 group can have pretty much all actives IF they consider the abilities that good.

My merc on avalon had charge3 and purge2 at RR5L5. Sure, I could have taken mastery of pain, aug str, aug con, toughness, determination, etc, and blamed dying on lack of actives. But that would be just stupid excuse.

If relic situation is not neutral, it imbalances the game much more than difference between rr6 and rr11 grp abilitywise, IMO.

Yes, but 40 specpoints less on every single player in the group? That might mean the bof, moc, am or whatever which was missing to puncture the other group, not in ALL cases but it defenitely can be the deciding factor!

 

[Bracken]

To me DAoC has nothing else to offer than 8vs8 because its fun and if someone ruins our fight it means he ruins our fun, quite simple? No other reason, it has nothing to do about rp's or about who r0x. Its just some guy ruining our fun. And on Avalon these retards mostly stay out of our way so its all good.

They are ruining your fun because they are playing the game as they always have done while you have made the game into something "more". The fact YOU decided to make this game into something more than it was than when you first bought it is YOUR choice. Therefore if you regard someone doing something they've been doing for the last 5 years as ruining your fun then the problem is with YOU, not them. Like I said before, it's the classic attitude of the emotionally challenged egocentric.

Incidentally, if a bunch of people suddenly decided that their "fun" was to talk in Old English and wear bright green would they have the right to bitch at anyone who ruined their fun by talking "normally" to them and wearing black? Your argument is based on exactly the same logic - you've made your own playstyle and anyone who doesn't go along with it is a "retard".

So here's the bottom line. We are not going to stop how we play because you, and those like you, are emotionally incapable of accepting being "added on". We don't care if we are crap at this computer game - it doesn't matter to us one jot. However, it obviously matters to you as you spend a great deal of your time coming to these boards to tell us (remember this is the server that you made a big song and dance about leaving). You are clearly someone who gives this computer game far too much importance. Let's face it man, you're really just a f*cking nerd hiding behind his pc making himself feel better by dishing out the shit with anonymity

 

[raid]

Yes, but 40 specpoints less on every single player in the group? That might mean the bof, moc, am or whatever which was missing to puncture the other group, not in ALL cases but it defenitely can be the deciding factor!

Of course ability being down can be deciding factor... but even the RR11s have the same timers on abilities. Only major difference is the RR11s most likely having 2x healer class with bof+moc, while RR6s have only 1 bof, 1 moc.

Our recent avalon albgrp was the only setgrp-reroll I ever did (which actually got to rvr), so I can only speak from that experience. But since we got to ~rr6,
I can honestly say I NEVER thought we lost because we were too low RR to afford an ability.

We lost some due to wrong RA setup (not having as many mocs to dump as the enemies had etc), but that was by choice, not because we COULDN'T get them.

We lost some due to abilities being down, but that has happened in RR11 midgrp too.

But majority of losses were most definitely caused by player mistakes. When fight is otherwise even, one fuckup often decides it.

 

[Dard]

Stuff

Do you not think this is slightly hippocritical ?

 

[swords]

It's lucky that the title states 'most' of the whiners have left since it is evident that some remain quite firmly rooted to the cluster

 

[Bracken]

Do you not think this is slightly hippocritical ?

Nope.

 

[Bracken]

It's lucky that the title states 'most' of the whiners have left since it is evident that some remain quite firmly rooted to the cluster

They've left the server, but strangely seem to keep coming back to the server forum.

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

But also if we see Magon etc camping or 2/3 bd's under the bridge i will also go out of my way to kill them simply cause they ruin the solo fun, my group only kills whats in front of it if no pops on us then we just dash on through to the boat, then no soloer gets hurt

Oh please. It seems You drive your group and I've seen you run to my Armsman who was solo, mezz, grapple and kill me.

Magon is no better or worse than you on the matter I suppose. At least I've heard him saying "leave the solo'er (fight) alone" on Teamspeak a few times lately which suprised me a bit, but still.

The reason you want to gank Magon as much as possible might be that when he runs a small group of 3 or so he manages still to kill some of your group or when Custodia has 5-6 random players in a group the FG you lead releases quite often quite fast... :touch: Think I have some recorded fights where I play like the last shit and we still come on top of you with 5-8 players in group or have you die when we have 3-4 people.

 

[raid]

FG you lead releases quite often quite fast... :touch: .... when we have 3-4 people.

ahaha the ego

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

Translated:

If you sit down and give me 30k rp's then maybe just maybe i'll run past you once without insta gibbing you. Until i've got my 30k rp quota off you you can go to hell!
I've asked this before and all the l33t twits like you instantly ran off quietly. Why should someone you've steamrolled the last 5 times you saw them because you didn't know them "respect" your fight. Because your better than them? How about you start earning some respect from the randoms you constantly roll before YOU start acting like you deserve any.

People call you elitist pricks for a reason, and you've pretty much just demonstrated why. Cheers.

Well, it's really easy, watch a fight from a good guild group (recording): If they win against superior members or chain set groups everything is okay, if they loose to a group coming by at the end of their first fight then they are "adding wankers".

Hypocrisy for the win and it has been always the strongest among set groups.

 

[swords]

They've left the server, but strangely seem to keep coming back to the server forum.

The server is powered by forum whine! I'm doing my bit to keep the server alive!

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

ahaha the ego

Not really, I've run in such groups too .

 

[Solari]

Oh please. It seems You drive your group and I've seen you run to my Armsman who was solo, mezz, grapple and kill me.

Magon is no better or worse than you on the matter I suppose. At least I've heard him saying "leave the solo'er (fight) alone" on Teamspeak a few times lately which suprised me a bit, but still.

The reason you want to gank Magon as much as possible might be that when he runs a small group of 3 or so he manages still to kill some of your group or when Custodia has 5-6 random players in a group the FG you lead releases quite often quite fast... :touch: Think I have some recorded fights where I play like the last shit and we still come on top of you with 5-8 players in group or have you die when we have 3-4 people.

Or when custodia 6-8 man pugs wipes on duo's but it's all fun

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

Or when custodia 6-8 man pugs wipes on duo's but it's all fun

Yeah, I've had such a dream too.

 

[swords]

Yes, you've been describing it for quite some pages now.

 

[Coldbeard]

Because it was such a big surprise that the state of uk cluster at the moment suits all the goodie two-shoes players that play for fun, pay their own subs, decent guy irl, play for the realm, so-not-elitist, really enjoying the game people. I can imagine they are having the time of their life with the zerging, adding and generally selfish playstyle galore.

These threads, trying to show that cluster is "alive and kickin'", just come across as really desperate and struggling.

 

[Starwind]

Pro Gaming ( Elite Game Play ) messed up every game ive played online.

People constantly trying to run the game like a business, untill they get to the point were they think its the only way to play, forgetting about friends guildmates, and just pure random fun.

I supose people could turn around and say " well thats how the game has evolved " , well the game does not do that on its own.

I bet when the game first came along it was fantasic, everyone must have been a random, but now you need:

Tamplates ( dude if your resist aint 1000 you aint in )
COMS ( No Vent No Group )
Custermized UI ( a true window layout for the true Ninja )
Certain Classes (we only have 1 pac healer, if we cant get another, im loggin)
IRC ( for the people who think its great to oraganize fights )
3rd party programs ( for the true wankers )
Dont Add Macro's ( speaks for its self )
Close circle of friends ( everyone else can fuck off, there skillzorz are shite )
An atitude that says i must win ( there are no points for second place )
Beable to make a video with crap heavy metal music (what is it with that)
A Big fuck off E-Penis ( im talking a fuckin Deathstar size)

Look at what the game has turned into, im glad im bloody random tbh

 

[GrivneKelmorian]

Pro Gaming ( Elite Game Play ) messed up every game ive played online.

People constantly trying to run the game like a business, untill they get to the point were they think its the only way to play, forgetting about friends guildmates, and just pure random fun.

I supose people could turn around and say " well thats how the game has evolved " , well the game does not do that on its own.

I bet when the game first came along it was fantasic, everyone must have been a random, but now you need:

Tamplates ( dude if your resist aint 1000 you aint in )
COMS ( No Vent No Group )
Custermized UI ( a true window layout for the true Ninja )
Certain Classes (we only have 1 pac healer, if we cant get another, im loggin)
IRC ( for the people who think its great to oraganize fights )
3rd party programs ( for the true wankers )
Dont Add Macro's ( speaks for its self )
Close circle of friends ( everyone else can fuck off, there skillzorz are shite )
An atitude that says i must win ( there are no points for second place )
Beable to make a video with crap heavy metal music (what is it with that)
A Big fuck off E-Penis ( im talking a fuckin Deathstar size)

Look at what the game has turned into, im glad im bloody random tbh

repped

 

[Coldbeard]

How hard is it to grasp that after 4-5 years or whatever, running around roleplaying outside TNN, leveling up new characters, crafting for fun, and running around solving quests and fighting mobs ain't all that much of a joy anymore and that there are other aspects of the game that are what makes the game enjoyable for you to play? Like competing at high level pvp? Where the competition is ever changing and you have to adapt to the ever changing group setups and playstyles, and being part of a competitive community. It's blatantly naive to think that people would run around on level 16 chars and do quests together in grey armor roleplaying after so many years of playing the game. Some people actually want a different game experience after so many years, instead of the doing same old stuff, because the same old stuff is not what it used to be. So maybe you ought to wake up to that reality?