Now that most of the whiners have left, the cluster seems pretty much alive and kicki

[Muylaetrix]

realmrank doesn't have a very significant impact, teamwork and playstyle outweighs it by far.

you can`t seriously say something like this without bursting in laughter, now do you ?

buffs / gear / RR are passive potential.

skill/teamwork/experience are active.

as a rule of thumb,

the buffless can`t compete with the buffed,
the rogsters can`t compete with the perfectly templated,
the lowbies can`t compete with the high RR.

i`m sure a lot of high RR people with great suits like to call themselves skilled and like to shout out load about the minimal impact of the passive potential and how it is all about player skill.

 

[trycorn]

you can`t seriously say something like this without bursting in laughter, now do you ?

buffs / gear / RR are passive potential.

skill/teamwork/experience are active.

as a rule of thumb,

the buffless can`t compete with the buffed,
the rogsters can`t compete with the perfectly templated,
the lowbies can`t compete with the high RR.

i`m sure a lot of high RR people with great suits like to call themselves skilled and like to shout out load about the minimal impact of the passive potential and how it is all about player skill.

you can`t seriously say something like this without bursting in laughter, now do you ?

 

[noaim]

you can`t seriously say something like this without bursting in laughter, now do you ?

buffs / gear / RR are passive potential.

skill/teamwork/experience are active.

as a rule of thumb,

the buffless can`t compete with the buffed,
the rogsters can`t compete with the perfectly templated,
the lowbies can`t compete with the high RR.

i`m sure a lot of high RR people with great suits like to call themselves skilled and like to shout out load about the minimal impact of the passive potential and how it is all about player skill.

Tbh I think any lowbie can compete with high RR´s, depending on who the high RR is. Last time I saw u in rvr, u came up to add on our fight, but since I saw u before u were in range I already had u in target and nuked u as soon as u got in range. The result was that u mocced and started to pbae, at around 1500 range. As Eleasias said, most players are just really bad, and unless someone dumps all they have, the RR isnt the biggest factor.

 

[Eleasias]

you can`t seriously say something like this without bursting in laughter, now do you ?

buffs / gear / RR are passive potential.

skill/teamwork/experience are active.

as a rule of thumb,

the buffless can`t compete with the buffed,
the rogsters can`t compete with the perfectly templated,
the lowbies can`t compete with the high RR.

i`m sure a lot of high RR people with great suits like to call themselves skilled and like to shout out load about the minimal impact of the passive potential and how it is all about player skill.

lols, so how come we wiped the floor with rr11 only grps when we started the VfL grp on avalon ? xD you're a retard, just stfu

 

[judas]

lols, so how come we wiped the floor with rr11 only grps when we started the VfL grp on avalon ? xD you're a retard, just stfu

that can easely be explained.
But as i dont want to mention the war i cant...

 

[Muylaetrix]

Tbh I think any lowbie can compete with high RR´s, depending on who the high RR is. Last time I saw u in rvr, u came up to add on our fight, but since I saw u before u were in range I already had u in target and nuked u as soon as u got in range. The result was that u mocced and started to pbae, at around 1500 range. As Eleasias said, most players are just really bad, and unless someone dumps all they have, the RR isnt the biggest factor.

last time you saw me moc was like at least 5 months ago. i ve`have 0 active RA`s for ages now.

and yes, with me and a loc, it depends who gets the other one in target first.

if i target first and get bolt-dd out first, i win most of the time, otherwise, loc wins.

 

[Niko]

Maybe I've been away for quite some time, but when I played, RA's like moc3 or Purge3 could really turn the tables in a fight. What I mean is that, if you make a mistake you can easilly repair it by dumping some RA's meanwhile the low RR group are burnt out 2 minutes earlier.

 

[dub]

you can`t seriously say something like this without bursting in laughter, now do you ?

buffs / gear / RR are passive potential.

skill/teamwork/experience are active.

as a rule of thumb,

the buffless can`t compete with the buffed,
the rogsters can`t compete with the perfectly templated,
the lowbies can`t compete with the high RR.

i`m sure a lot of high RR people with great suits like to call themselves skilled and like to shout out load about the minimal impact of the passive potential and how it is all about player skill.

if youd care to take a look at kiviks movies youll see how wrong you are

 

[BlackrazoR]

Go Cluster go! I was about to perform CPR on it but thank god it's still alive :worthy: .

 

[Valgyr]

last time you saw me moc was like at least 5 months ago. i ve`have 0 active RA`s for ages now.

and yes, with me and a loc, it depends who gets the other one in target first.

if i target first and get bolt-dd out first, i win most of the time, otherwise, loc wins.

I rly doubt he was playing a Loc^^

 

[Darzil]

lols, so how come we wiped the floor with rr11 only grps when we started the VfL grp on avalon ? xD you're a retard, just stfu

You CAN do very well with a well organised low RR group.

Hell, I was in a group last night with no healers. As long as we got the drop on the opposition, we often won. Would I say that healers therefore convey no advantage ?

Darzil

 

[Vodkafairy]

you can`t seriously say something like this without bursting in laughter, now do you ?

and why not?

you have little to no experience in the fg vs fg scene, so you'll just have to trust me when I say: the better group wins, with better being personal skill + teamwork.

 

[Valgyr]

and why not?

you have little to no experience in the fg vs fg scene, so you'll just have to trust me when I say: the better group wins, with better being personal skill + teamwork.

Well i cant agree on that to 100% as when u fight a high rr grp that drops everything on u, like u say wolfbash does vs ur grp, and farisl grp did vs us a few times on cluster we cant really keep up and win even tho we might have the advantage at that point in the fight. Cause 5 MoCs at once is plain awfull

 

[Vodkafairy]

Well i cant agree on that to 100% as when u fight a high rr grp that drops everything on u, like u say wolfbash does vs ur grp, and farisl grp did vs us a few times on cluster we cant really keep up and win even tho we might have the advantage at that point in the fight. Cause 5 MoCs at once is plain awfull

wolfbash farmed us a lot at start, then the tide kinda shifted and we farmed them (at around rr5-6) for a while. on their turn they adapted and started to sync their mocs and dump everything (5x moc3 + baod3 + bof3). they rest till all ra's are up after each fight aswell.

we changed tactic from defensive to full offensive against them and they got completely raped and logged after. soon they will adapt to that, and we will change tactics, etc, etc.

that's kinda how rvr should be, but to say wolfbash always wins because they are rr11+ is bullshit. they farm us, we farm them, regardless of our rr's. also, please explain why wolfbash is harder then any other albgroup that are rr11 also?

ra's make significant impact but as I said in my first post, playstyle + teamwork outweighs it by far. you can overcome RA dumps with the right tactics.

 

[noaim]

last time you saw me moc was like at least 5 months ago. i ve`have 0 active RA`s for ages now.

and yes, with me and a loc, it depends who gets the other one in target first.

if i target first and get bolt-dd out first, i win most of the time, otherwise, loc wins.

I played sm, and as I said, last time I saw u, I usually dont go to bridges. The point however was, that how the hell does it matter that u are rr11, when u moc pbae because u get nuked from 1500 range? You just suck, and if my char was rr1 or 2 u would still have ended up dead because u are a bad player (although this is an extreme example of stupidity).

 

[Muylaetrix]

You just suck, and if my char was rr1 or 2 u would still have ended up dead because u are a bad player.

i sense much anger in this one.

 

[Raven]

not really, he is just pointing out you are rubbish

 

[raid]

u would still have ended up dead

you usually ended up dead, too!

 

[Golena]

People who say RA's make no difference are very very wrong.

Go try and run out in a group where no character has purge, see how well you do if you get jumped. Around RR6 then the difference upwards becomes minimal and teamwork/playstyle start to make more of a difference because you have all the basic stuff. The difference fighting at RR1 or RR4 is HUGE tho, so yes, they do make a difference.

If all you ever do is play in a set group where you reach RR6 on day 3 then RR's don't matter sure.. When your a casual and RR4 seems high, then saying they don't matter is simply clueless.

 

[Niko]

and why not?

you have little to no experience in the fg vs fg scene, so you'll just have to trust me when I say: the better group wins, with better being personal skill + teamwork.

As far as I know, the groups you have played with already had RR10-11 druids etc, EXAMPLE Dreami, Fiontan, list goes on. Perhaps you are refering to your Avalon group, I don't know. Saying that BOF, MoC, Baod, AM and all the other shit you can have rank "3" with and still have a decent setup with passives, isn't a huge advantage would be very wrong imo.

But yes, of course if you take an extreme example, 8 ebayed RR11s who never played the game vs 8 rr1 players with 3 years of rvr-experience & a history as a group, it might be true.

 

[charmangle]

Hmm...

To tired to read through the entire discussion bits about RAs here, but in general and I think if Vodka gets out of discussion mode hell agree with this too:

RAs are about 75% of a groups success story in fg vs fg...under certain circumstances...
and about 75% of a groups success story in fg vs fg are skill...under other circumstances...

When you have a huge RR difference between a low rr and a high rr group and both sides have atleast basic RvR-skills.

For a rr 1L0 group to face a RR13 group is basically an impossible situation. And anyone saying otherwise is either stupid or just playing stupid.

As the gap closes abit it ofc becomes increasingly more based on skill, but it keeps beeing a HUGE advantage for the high rr group for quite a bit:

For a really good rr 4 group to beat a half good rr 13 group 8 out of 10 times (on a regular basis) is maybe doable but ive still to see or even hear of it. (which is pretty much proven by the Avalon rerollers. They get out there and beat some but loose most at the example point according to what those ive heared from say anyway.

As the low rr group gets to rr 6+ in my opinion you start seeing a turning point, the fights start to get more evenly matched, BUT the lower RRs usually loose more due to their usable RAs beeing down more often.

So in my opinion skill counts for much, but it takes for atleast somewhat evenly matched RAs for it to start to really show.

/Charmangle

ps. A funny side point, some more elitist RvR players in DaoC frown upon the Roleplaying side of the game, while the RvR system itself is the very essence of this. It is (according to ALL i hope) utterly unfair for those that have the most experience and hopefully skill (that usually comes with experience) get more powers than the newbies and upandcommers, virtually placing the less experienced players with a handicap. How fun would that system make Golf for example?(Wouldnt it be fun if you would start as rr13 and loose rps for every RR you gain so to speak, that would show real skill! Or fotball, hey lets only let those who have won a championship before we let them wear shoes.

In the end, its an unfair system, but it is great for Roleplaying...
so the highest RRs are the biggest Roleplayers of DaoC! ds

 

[censi]

DPS hunter LFG!

 

[Gamah]

random bullshit

Well you rogging adders finally got your way, I hope you're enjoying your dead server

 

[cmr]

I understand everyone has the right to play as they like but never will I respect the playstyle or the player. It's a bullshit excuse though "you dont respect me for adding so I'll keep on adding"? Respect has to be earned and you dont get respected before you start acting like you deserve some.

Respecting an adder is like respecting someone purposely going out and trying to ruin other people's fun, like I said somewhere before its funny how it all turned around from "hey he didnt kill me while im on low hp, he must be nice guy" to "fucking elitist cock wanting fair fights lol what a prick, bet he has no life and must be ugly and fat also" and "what a loser he cant fight me 1v1, always runs away and gets help/zergs people down" to "HEY ITS A NICE GUY IRL WHO HAS A SUPERMODEL WIFE, GREAT JOB AND 2000000€ MONTH INCOME"

However how would respecting an adder help anyone? He wouldnt stop adding anyway? Say "hey good job helping me but can you not do it next time" will mean he will add in the future anyway, seen it happen countless times. Flaming him will do no good either. Or just saying "gw" will mean he thinks you're ok with him ruining your fights or sarcastic. Best way is ofc that these 2 types of players stay away from each other and now you have your dead server.

Not like I care anymore anyway because Avalon is simply much better with this, fg's go one place, zergs go another. Sometimes they collide though and the zergers get their share of dislike, maybe not in public but definately in private

Most players are shit players and wouldnt ever manage to kill anything 1v1/8v8 so they hide behind excuses, you can pick which one you want best suited for the situation. Better template / higher rr / he only plays daoc does nothing else. etc etc so they zerg up to gain rp's. Oh wait I thought it was the ELITISTS who do 8vs8 / 1vs1 who wanted the rp's most? Oo. People can claim they play for fun but zerging 40vs8 is not FUN for anyone and thats a fucking fact, you do it for the rp's. And here it all makes a full circle, you are the guy who only looks at his rp bar and doesnt care about anyone else, even gong on when it gets mind numbingly boring to zerg, just to get rp's. Disgusting hypocrisy.

PS. you all suck.

amen brother!

LOL just read replies to that post and its like people knowing nothing about you have just said exactly what you said in the post OMG ELITIST PRICK!!1

deleted what i wrote, if you aint figured it out by now, you never will

 

[censi]

that post oozes daoc wisdom and experience... coupled with genuine intelligence.

 

[Jor]

solo rvr now is really good now imo.
tho thats cause of the keep takes, easy to take down the soloers that run around from keeps to keeps.

Well... unbuffed/solo I can't really do much against you with your charmed orange con frost mare camping the docks... other than just die I mean

That silly horse chased me under water, proccs, melees and you run out of melee range and never draw a weapon - only thing I got from you was mezz/stun and a odd DD shout.

But at least this was a change from being zerged the mezz/dd/dd/dd/dd or stun/dd/dd/dd/dd way.

Hope to meet you again and find a way to at least touch you with my weapon.

/salute

 

[Eleasias]

The average bloke doesn't need excuses. It's a computer game. The difference between the stereotypical "fg'er" and the average "zerger" is that the zerger doesn't care if they or anyone else is good or shit at this game. Why? Because it really doesn't matter. To listen to many of you you'd think it was a matter of life or death as to who r0x. Which neatly brings it back to the point about emotionally challenged egocentrics...

Oh how wrong can you be, the biggest bullshit excuses always come from the worse groups and 'average' people, always having an excuse why they lost, and not only in internet gaming. You dont have to go any further than these boards to find some quality excuses.

As it happens, they never win but still they are as good because they manage to have some excuse (in their eyes). To me, for years, it has looked like its always these people who look for regocnition and some kind of aknowledgement from the good grps.

Most of my male friends play some kind of an internet game, most are playing shit-WoW atm. None of them are elitist, no tolerance for half-assery kind of guys like me. I'd say they are quite the casual noobs. They are so full of shit every time they get owned it makes me laugh tbh. "lol they have healers" "lol they assisted on our ppl" etc, but never, ever did they get outplayed.

As for the other part of the quote, no its not a matter of life and death in any way but when we go out there we do our best to beat the other groups and they do the same, this takes some degree of seriousness and organization, just like ANY OTHER GAME IN THIS WORLD THAT HAS LIVE PEOPLE COMPETING AGAINST EACH OTHER. I just capsed it so you dont go into "lol its a game"-tantrum, yeah, so is football? (pls dont make this into an irl argument thread)

To me DAoC has nothing else to offer than 8vs8 because its fun and if someone ruins our fight it means he ruins our fun, quite simple? No other reason, it has nothing to do about rp's or about who r0x. Its just some guy ruining our fun. And on Avalon these retards mostly stay out of our way so its all good.

 

[Phake]

Here is my 5 cents..

ofcuz RR matters .. but what i think VF is saying is that teamwork/skill/tactics outweights RR by far .. that statement dossent mean that RR dun matter at all .. just that the other factors determines the fights outcome more than the differance in RR..

And for the groups/guilds that left for Avalon .. our guild for example have been getting plenty of spanking .. though i hardly think that is coz of the RR .. after rr4-5 it really dun matter that much .. but got more to do that we play a new realm and have a few new players etc .. im not to sure .. but i think that the most guilds that rerolled play different realm than they did on cluster.

 

[Imgormiel]

that post oozes daoc wisdom and experience... coupled with genuine intelligence.

ofc xD

 

[Jor]

To come back to the thread title...

Have a nice next year and I hope to see some of you in RvR! Would be nice to get less zerged as unbuffed/solo/low RR if possible... but I doubt that will ever happen, right? *sigh*

So it's basically the same for me with or without lot's of people - but I will keep trying.

/salute