No "griefer" classes in Warhammer

[censi]

http://war.jeuxonline.info/view/video2/

pouched from aiteal.

Apparently Marc Jacobs thinks all stealthers are greifers and doesnt want that type of leet "FPS player" in warhammer. So no stealthers in warhammer.

Does this spell out the kiss of death for warhammer. Aka the real "nice guy irl" griefers are let loose on each other in one big shitstorm with no room the the "FPS player" (who doesnt add etc)

Prolly explains a lot of why certain classes are just getting seriel nerfed while others are godmode tbh.

Funny though, I mean in my opinion the stealthers I come accross in the game are generally really nice and tend to like have a lot of honor rules (that are not in the rule book!) that they abide to that kind of shaft their RP earning in favour of getting good fights (ofc not all stealthers ffs theres a lot of dicks out there to). Butlike generally the nice guy irls are pretty much 99% of casters and say 70% of other melee classes (or some random number lower than 99%).

Like take arumos for example he is a self confessed adder on a caster but when he plays his stealther he doesnt feel the need to do it because he is looking for good fights not good RP. Thats kind of an example of what im talking about. Explains a lot to me like this interview, because I often think like is the guy who calls the shots with this game on hardcore drugs or something, because of some of the ridiculous things in the game to drive the leet FPS players away. this interview just confirms the mindset behind what has turned daoc from a once fun game to pretty much constant frustration.

Or is he right and the adders play in good spirit and the people that dont add are just morons! (for being nice!)

 

[Commandment]

i wanted a stealther class :< cuz i think my playtime will go down and i dont wana rely on grps ! how gay..

ps. i hate counterstrike or any fps's!

 

[illu]

I always thought the stealthers were there like a rock paper scissors, so stealther kills caster (well tries to and then gets ml9 pet, DI bot and SoI then Moc), caster dies, tank kills stealther, caster kills all at range. That kind of thing. The surprise attack of the stealther is good fun too, keeps you on your toes.
Ah well, I cba playing a new online game anyway, it's just always the same crap in different packaging.

Oli - Illu

 

[Konstantin]

thank God....uke:

 

[Zede]

good news indeed

 

[charmangle]

Well...

Even though I havent listened to what he had to say, (I knew from before that warhammer wouldnt have any stealthers), the problem with stealthers have never been the players behind them (well sometimes it is but not vastly more than other players)

It is just impossible to balance a class with invisability as a solo class. Its just a unending "grief" to the game creators. Either you make them able to kill their targets (which requires the same strength or very close to it as the visiable classes) and get away, which will make them to strong because they have the invisability addition OR you make them rediculously weaker than visiable classes so that they cant kill visible classes because they can choose to hit them while they are low on hp etc.

Even though you might not think it OP to 2 shot a caster, (and alot might not think so since casters can do the same to other classes), you will always have the advantage of beeing invisable and choose your fight. Yes there are other stealthers that can pop you etc, but that wount change the fact that the visible classes cant get you while you can get them.

Keeping the balance is very very hard.

So, it is understandable that they choose not to have them in a new game. All in all they are just a little to much "grief" when considering the game value of them in total.

/Charmangle

 

[Aiteal]

I love playing a stealther
I love following the forums to see other peoples templates and see which resist is commonly gimped so I can make a new template to take advantage of that
I love the flexibilty of playstyles that my ranger gives me, melee, bow or hybrid and all the dozens of templates you can make to match each spec choice.
I love the cat and mouse game of stealth wars

I think I've "griefed" once on my stealther when I ran into POC after it opened to check it out and attacked a FG of xp'ers buffless for a laugh killing a grey con sorc being PL'ed there (nits breed lice after all)

Being a closet roleplayer I stood guard over finns groups without them knowing whilst the games real griefers (at least imho) certain sorcs with DI bots came along for quick easy RP's and either warned the group of inc or suicidally took on said sorcs so the DS warned them, I've done this for a few hours many many times for next to no RP's
Unless said sorc was remoteaccess ofc, who can't take on a RR1 shade even with a buffed granny and DI bot
Hardly griefing tbh.

Kinda sad that they design an archetype and as you are fond of saying "water it down" compared to visables, answer TL requests with "you are not meant to group or have anything a group wants" answers then call you a griefer for playing the class the way they designed it.

Warhammer has nice archetypes suitable for stealth, woodelf wayfinders, dark elf assassins and skaven gutter runners etc.
Shame they will never make it into the game.

 

[Gazon]

That's just great

The never-ending amount of propaganda/whine to try and keep up that playstyle should give you a clue that it doesn't fit into a FFA MMORPG.

It WILL be a "zerg" game. Deal with it.

 

[Dr_Evil]

It's the casters that are the "griefers", zapping down everything in sight as if they were mobs just giving free rp, never realizing there are actually real humans playing on the other side.

From tank pov many stealthers seem to be honorable and willing to take a risk to get a good and challenging fight, but many are also cowards hiding and waiting to get an unfair advantage before attacking so they're sure they're gonna win and not getting any challenge.

As a tank I know every single fight will be a challenge, cause I can't pick my fight - the fight has to come to me, and I know every time I get attacked my attackers were certain they were gonna win or they wouldn't have attacked. (Unless ofc someone were actually looking for a challenge, wich happens sometimes.) When it's like this I always know I'm going down sooner or later, and when I go down, I go down fighting! (Hoping to get 1 before I die.)

 

[Puppet]

http://war.jeuxonline.info/view/video2/

Explains a lot to me like this interview, because I often think like is the guy who calls the shots with this game on hardcore drugs or something

Hearing this guy talk and seeing his body language actually makes me think he's at that very moment on hardcore drugs. Or well, just drunk

 

[Belomar]

I like Paul Burnett. Hiring such a charismatic PR person is probably one of the best moves Mythic ever did for Warhammer. Game companies are beginning to realize that a large portion of a big game such as WO lies in the anticipation leading up to its release.

 

[Puppet]

"No, not stealthing grieving! Dont worry there will be lots of cool stuff with DarkElfs, such as .... sorcerers'

This one made me chuckle when you keep DAOC's sorc in mind

 

[Raven]

they are aiming WO at the WoW player base not the typical DAOC PvP'er they really arent interested in the 8v8'ers or soloers as these arent the ones that bring in the $. it sucks but it pleases Johny consumer which pleases Mr Bank manager.
its bad for the game if you have everything equal, if you put 95% of casters on any other class they would get farmed 24/7. the game needs differing dificulty levels otherwise the lesser able players would soon get bored and cancel subs, with WO they are just aiming for these type of players.

 

[Wazkyr]

Imo its a good move. Think it could bring more "fair" fg vs fg action, if we are gonna see that. And ofc we wont halve half the realm around soloing while we could need some aid.
But on the other said its always nice to have a class to play when theres no group..

 

[Alexandrinus]

oh they save the stealther's for the expansion packs ^^

 

[Megalodon]

Good news.

 

[Starwind]

Apparently Marc Jacobs thinks all stealthers are greifers and doesnt want that type of leet "FPS player" in warhammer. So no stealthers in warhammer.

Getting rid of stealth is a good thing tbh.

It gets rid of a lot of crap that was brought to DaoC with stealth.

Problem is , is that people who are use to stealthing are going to expect it in the next game. because you have been that use to it, i bet those people even stealth up to eat there breakfast, and put mezz poison on there spoons.

 

[Dorimor1]

HAHA.. Best news since Warhammer came out.

Stealthers owned, no more adding, leaching emoting retards woot.

 

[Thorwyn]

I always thought the stealthers were there like a rock paper scissors, so stealther kills caster (well tries to and then gets ml9 pet, DI bot and SoI then Moc), caster dies, tank kills stealther, caster kills all at range. That kind of thing. The surprise attack of the stealther is good fun too, keeps you on your toes.

Yes, that used to be the base of the gamedesign. However, they somehow managed to destroy this archetype setup over the time and now we´re kinda facing a reversed world.

About the topic: I think it all depends on how WAR is designed. Games like this don´t *need* stealthers. And I agree with Raven, if you want to place a successful MMO these days, you need to aim for the casual gamer. Core gamers won´t get you anywhere.

 

[Sollers]

....a cannon with a bush on it

 

[kivik]

Too bad, actually expected a stealther class from each race. In the tabletop game there are assasin/archer type classes.

 

[Maeloch]

Wonder what their long-term plans for daoc are then: run it down, or aim it at a different segment of the market?

Stealth as implimented always seemed a bit crap to me: a cop-out, but guess became a game in itself.

 

[anioal]

too bad for the stealthers, cause indeed it is a game-in-game and it really spice things up for both the stealther and the visible target.

 

[censi]

No MMRPG maker since UO has twigged that a massive amount of its player base wants to loggin and play PVP on their own.

Also a massive part wants to play in group battles.

To cater for one and not the other is suicide in terms of subs. Because even if they make WO a group or large scale RVR fest. People will try and solo.
And if the game doesnt cater for it and it "feels" like daoc, where soloing = you versus 50 adds. Then a lot of people will immedietly go "000 no, been here done this before not playing for 4 years to die to 500 opponents" etc.

He did actually say that characters would be getting abilitys like invisability and prolly other ways to be undetectable, bit like hiding in UO.

Actually thinking about it. UO didnt have stealthers. You could hide, and if you have a skill called stealth you could move like 8 squares stealthed very slowly. It was handy for thiefs to move in on peoples backpacks.

So this isnt all doom and gloom. There could be like rangers and thiefs and stuf in WO.

Also one thing they need to do is make sure ALL classes have same speed options. Not like daoc where theres castable speed that players in combat dont have. Meaning you cant even run from FG adds and shit etc (the most stupidest thing about daoc is this). In UO if you were fighting and you saw like 15 adds inc you had a chance to leggit and there could be a long chance etc which was fun.

ALSO I pray to god its not carebear mode in terms of player inventories. AKA if you die people can take your items.

 

[anioal]

HAHA.. Best news since Warhammer came out.

Stealthers owned, no more adding, leaching emoting retards woot.

sir, you are an idiot!

adding, leaching, emoting have nothing to do with the class... only with the player behind it (see a great bunch of visibles that do it on a regular basis)

 

[Calmin]

Very interesting i didnt see that coming, especially considering like some people have mentioned that assassin type figures exist in the Warhammer world.

Im not sure its a good thing though since nearly all MMORPGs these days have stealth classes and theres a huge core of hardcore stealthers out there (just look at how popular sites like The Safe House, etc ) have been over the years.

Ive never played a stealther in any game ive played since ive always like to play a class with healing (main or back up) but i do like the excitement of knowing enemies can be right next to you getting ready to jump you, especially in games where you xp and grind in pvp zones.

I think my ideal solution would be to have stealth classes that are balanced against visible classes, as in you can choose to fight being a stealther but you damn well better bring your A game or the visible player will beat you.

Trade off between the huge advantage of stealth and the other abilities stealth characters have.

I guess its better no stealth than getting heavy tanks with stealth which seems to be the case in some games.

Like the idea that if you survive the initial stealth attack you pretty much always win after that type design.

 

[pip]

Who cares wont be playing it anyway this game will attract new people any way so don't think this thread will do jack shit but no stealthers will be a good thing as atleast you will see something you can kill if this game can get 40 million per mounth like wow they are the winners gl to em with it pitty they can't keep this good game alive tho

 

[Eizo]

Wohooo no more getting ganked my some uber template noob that have to bring 3 friends

 

[kivik]

Wohooo no more getting ganked my some uber template noob that have to bring 3 friends

yea cause getting ganked by full groups of visuals is so much better?

 

[Ashala]

who got the crazy idea that its only stealthers that can solo ?
its just a matter of what other tools your toon will get to coop with the
fact that you are on your own (like food and water in WoW)

i think its the best move they could make, besides, stealthers arnt really in
the Warhammer Spirit....unless if you have the Skaven assassins or High Elf
Shadow Warriors ofcourse

WoW is a nice example that you can easily solo with other then Stealthers
and im sure Mythic will figure out something unique and diffrent to coop with
the fact that some people will be forced to solo during there Warhammer Online Career

Edit : and yes i can see how this is an RvR topic and not fitted for the Warhammer Forum...