No "griefer" classes in Warhammer

[censi]

such insight

 

[Raven]

So if it please Johnny consumer and Mr Bank manager does that mean your Mr minority for not being happy? In tests on 1000 people 999 were happy and 1 was unhappy.Would you change it for 1 person?

no, which is my point, if you care to remove your head from your arse and re-read the post.

 

[scorge]

Apparently Marc Jacobs thinks all stealthers are greifers and doesnt want that type of leet "FPS player" in warhammer. So no stealthers in warhammer.

If it makes them more money they will probably but it into an expansion, when the whine gets strong.

There may yet be an ability that will hide you, but you cannot attack until a timer runs out, there fore negating griefing.

 

[scorge]

Seriously though, there are nice guys and assholes in each category, hard to generalize imho. =)

the assholes are usually on the other side

 

[Puppet]

Doesn't bother me either way. All I know is I'd rather go for a pint with one of the "Nice guy irl" bunch (e.g. Arumos) than one of the...what shall we call them..."All round ****" brigade (e.g. Censi) anyday. The latter would bore my f*cking tits off.

Because the RL-age or amount on how they bore you has to do anything with what class they play ingame ? And the 'nice guy irl' (Arumos) plays an infiltrator.

The greatest example that your statement is total bollocks is the fact the highest RR nightshade of Prydwen (Faiotan) has a RR9L9 Eldritch. And the highest RR ranger of Prydwen (me) has a RR11 Druid. But we're totally different to 'the visible chars' and would totally bore you in the pub while drinking a pint.

LOL.

 

[Kagato]

Great news, means warhammer might be a promising game.

I just hope the rest of the pvp system is equally designed to discourage griefer siturations.

 

[kivik]

I know...not to mention the shameless generalisation.

cookies?

 

[Samaroon|Terracotta]

Which would you prefer, 100 Horners and Scarlatinas? 100 Denarius, Thorneas and Grimsters? 100 Porkbellys Kilsimbas and Chelseafc's?

 

[Gear]

I really don't see where the problem is with stealthers. It's a good challenge to play one and brings the ellement of surprise in FG rvr too.

The "griefer" classes in daoc atm anyway are defo not stealthers.

 

[TheBinarySurfer]

http://war.jeuxonline.info/view/video2/

pouched from aiteal.

Apparently Marc Jacobs thinks all stealthers are greifers and doesnt want that type of leet "FPS player" in warhammer. So no stealthers in warhammer.

Soz censi but thats bollocks, youre deliberately taking what he said out of context - having read nearly EVERY post Mark Jacobs has made on WAR (as when DAoC eventually gets laid to rest i'll probably play another MMPORG and its about the only one different from the pack right now) its not what he mean't.

What you did effectively was take a phrase like this:
"people who whine on forums have a tendancy to be fairly immature"

and turn it into this:
"anyone posting on a forum is an childish little whiner"

Jacobs is a shrewd business man if nothing else - MMPORGS depend on the community being happy to keep them going - TRUE stealth is nearly impossible to balance and while there will be a small number who won't play WAR as a result there will be more who just go /Meh and roll another class in WAR.

Sorry but getting a bit fucked off with all the Mark Jacobs bashing im seeing on a lot of forums - and I'm hardly a fanboy. (I was at the front of the queue to hurl insults at him for some of his past decisions once i had all the facts. ToA...'Nuff said really)

Oh and for all of you asking/wondering about BB's in war. Mark Jacobs has personally stated at least four times it will not, cannot happen. Due to both design of the buffing system and lessons learned from DAoC. It is impossible for someone to have a "buffbot" - he's said that repeatedly.

Finally, he's stated while there will not be INVISIBILITY stealth, there will be an ability to be harder to see or a reduced range that you can be seen from etc etc - so similar but nowhere near as powerful as for example being able to stand right next to someone and line up a critshot/strike

 

[Aiteal]

Oh and for all of you asking/wondering about BB's in war. Mark Jacobs has personally stated at least four times it will not, cannot happen. Due to both design of the buffing system and lessons learned from DAoC. It is impossible for someone to have a "buffbot" - he's said that repeatedly.

whoopdi do!!!!!!!!!
no buffbots in WAR
I play DaoC, as does 99% of the posters here
How about he sorts out the problems in this game instead of telling us how great and balanced his next game is gonna be.

You are missing the point.
Stealthers in DaoC don't really care too much about wether stealthers will make an appearance in WAR or not, it would be nice but I'm not really bothered.

What concerns them is that the MD of a company that they pay money to has described (by proxy) players who play an archetype his company designed and marketed to them as griefers.

They designed the class, defined their roles in the game and turned down multiple TL requests asking for that role to be expanded (eg assassins asking for abilities to help out at siege)

So when players that have spent countless hours playing the classes they love realise that legitimite concerns they have (eg how crappy archery is outside of siege) are never going to be taken seriously because the man who makes decisions thinks of those players as "griefers" they will be understandably upset.

He's a shrewd buisness man alright, and a master of spin, slagging off one company for selling items because and I quote

GS: What do you think about the free to pay, pay for items model?


MJ: ......But what I have a problem with is like if you know that you spend five dollars more than somebody else, you can kick their ass, that’s not good. That’s bad. That’s a message to the player that it’s not skill anymore, it’s not a willingness to play the game, it’s just a willingness to spend more money....

whilst making so much money from buffbots sums the man up quite frankly.

 

[TheBinarySurfer]

whoopdi do!!!!!!!!!
no buffbots in WAR
I play DaoC, as does 99% of the posters here
How about he sorts out the problems in this game instead of telling us how great and balanced his next game is gonna be.

You are missing the point.
Stealthers in DaoC don't really care too much about wether stealthers will make an appearance in WAR or not, it would be nice but I'm not really bothered.

What concerns them is that the MD of a company that they pay money to has described (by proxy) players who play an archetype his company designed and marketed to them as griefers.

They designed the class, defined their roles in the game and turned down multiple TL requests asking for that role to be expanded (eg assassins asking for abilities to help out at siege)

So when players that have spent countless hours playing the classes they love realise that legitimite concerns they have (eg how crappy archery is outside of siege) are never going to be taken seriously because the man who makes decisions thinks of those players as "griefers" they will be understandably upset.

He's a shrewd buisness man alright, and a master of spin, slagging off one company for selling items because and I quote



whilst making so much money from buffbots sums the man up quite frankly.

Again, taking the post out of context, go and re-read it

 

[Aiteal]

Again, taking the post out of context, go and re-read it

By the post you mean the video?
I've watched it multiple times, as with the other videos.
Infact I posted it weeks ago on critshot to see what other people thought, then on VN a few days back which was reposted here leading to the current thread.

Whatever you say about what his "intentions" are or what he may or may not have meant, it does not detract from the fact that they guy is more concerned with marketing a forthcoming product than addressing issues his paying customers currently have.
An impression that was reinforced when he posted on an unofficial WAR forum about how the EA takeover wouldn't effect WAR and said sweet fanny adams to paying customers either through VN or the herald until at least a wek later.

Like I said, I couldn't give a flying fishfinger if WAR will be balanced and have no buffbots, I'm not paying money for WAR, I'm paying money for DaoC.
If he spent more time sorting out problems with this game and less time slagging of other companies for charging customers more money to make their chars more powerful without a trace of irony we would all be better off.

And in every interview wether printed on the web or in the form of a video, the word "griefer" was not spoken until rogues were mentioned.

Sorry but getting a bit fucked off with all the Mark Jacobs bashing im seeing on a lot of forums

it's not bashing, bashing is basless insults
it's pointing out hypocrisy

 

[~Latency~]

Didn't read all the pages but Warhammer is like WoW, a LOT of contested zones to exp in which means a lot of possible griefing... and stealthers are the classes which can grief the most, I think it's a great idea to have no stealthers !

 

[Gear]

Didn't read all the pages but Warhammer is like WoW, a LOT of contested zones to exp in which means a lot of possible griefing... and stealthers are the classes which can grief the most, I think it's a great idea to have no stealthers !

You're right, they'll just have sorcs with DI bots that are completely harmless. And if you're also french, you get a free month subs bonus!

 

[TheBinarySurfer]

By the post you mean the video?
I've watched it multiple times, as with the other videos.
Infact I posted it weeks ago on critshot to see what other people thought, then on VN a few days back which was reposted here leading to the current thread.

Whatever you say about what his "intentions" are or what he may or may not have meant, it does not detract from the fact that they guy is more concerned with marketing a forthcoming product than addressing issues his paying customers currently have.
An impression that was reinforced when he posted on an unofficial WAR forum about how the EA takeover wouldn't effect WAR and said sweet fanny adams to paying customers either through VN or the herald until at least a wek later.

Like I said, I couldn't give a flying fishfinger if WAR will be balanced and have no buffbots, I'm not paying money for WAR, I'm paying money for DaoC.
If he spent more time sorting out problems with this game and less time slagging of other companies for charging customers more money to make their chars more powerful without a trace of irony we would all be better off.

And in every interview wether printed on the web or in the form of a video, the word "griefer" was not spoken until rogues were mentioned.




it's not bashing, bashing is basless insults
it's pointing out hypocrisy

I don't agree with the majority of your posts above, however its your opinion and youre entitled to it /shrug.

Bashing was Censi's post btw. Hypocrisy is constant from the environmentalist who drives a car to the vegetarian who eats only fish or chicken - i don't pay much attention to it anymore as its so everyday in this life. May as well have said that Pol Pot was a mildly unpleasent man tbh

 

[censi]

Regarding the BB issue

Mark Jacobs has personally stated at least four times it will not, cannot happen. Due to both design of the buffing system and lessons learned from DAoC

How difficult would it have been to fix this BB issue after like the 2nd or 3rd patch 4 years ago???

Do you think it would have messed up the game then or summin?? (which wasnt designed to be played with buffbots, self buff lines on classes etc wasted)

They didnt "fix" BB's because it generated a lot of revenue (and still does) introducing a classic server like 4 years into the game (when they have already started developing their new game isnt the solution).

I do agree this is like only a spokesman quoting his boss type of thing (and to be honest the spokesman can accross as a right tit, to me anyway) but I dont buy that this guy is interested in anything other than money.

 

[Aiteal]

I don't agree with the majority of your posts above, however its your opinion and youre entitled to it /shrug.

you don't agree that he's more interested in marketing a forthcoming gaming and smoozing potential customers than communicating with his current paying customers?

you don't think it's hypocritical to slag off the pay for items model other companies use whilst raking in money from buffbots on regular servers?

I would also probably disagree with your opinion, but you havent bothered to post one.

shrug indeed.

 

[TheBinarySurfer]

you don't agree that he's more interested in marketing a forthcoming gaming and smoozing potential customers than communicating with his current paying customers?

you don't think it's hypocritical to slag off the pay for items model other companies use whilst raking in money from buffbots on regular servers?

I would also probably disagree with your opinion, but you havent bothered to post one.

shrug indeed.

I don't see a need to become confrontational as you have slightly above? Perhaps because my posts are factual in this particular thread not opinionated particuarly?

Jacobs didn't intend for buffbots to become part of the game as most of the older DAoC'ers (as in years playing the game) know. I think he's being a smart businessman putting his money and his focus into a new game that has the potential to improve on most of the elements his highly successful, but now ailling badly, original cash cow incorporated.

This thread wasn't about whether he's more interested in marketing and schmoozing or not - it was about whether or not he really considers all stealthers (as per what censi clearly said in the first post) to be griefers. Sorry but got better things to do than argue semantics with you all night To be continued if i climb out from under the thumb tomorrow night otherwise /Wave

 

[Aiteal]

I'm not being confrontational
I laid out my opinions and you disagreed, but didn't say why, so I asked why.
That's not confrontational.

He may not have intended for buffbots to become a problem, but he did next to nothing to address the problem on regular servers. So you'll have to forgive people for scoffing at your "there will be no buffbots in WAR" comment.
DaoC players couldn't give a feck, what concerns them is buffbots and balance in the game they pay for, not how great a forthcoming game that their subs pay the development for.

hard to make out the french guys accent but something along the lines of

Assassin, the dark elf assassin, shadowblade etc

but the answer is quite clear

There will be no assassins.....Ability to hide, stealth and grief people to death? No, one of Mark's global rules

Sounds to me like he thinks stealthers are griefers.
Which is fair enough if he feels that way, but he should just be honest with his customer base and say so, instead of dangling carrots and hinting at possible loving through PR-speak rouge TL answers.

 

[Raven]

he probably plays a sorc or something anyway.

 

[Gondath]

I see
It's immature to satirise someones point with an equally baseless accusation to show how absurd someones reasoning is.
You're right, I have a lot of growing up to do, I'm sorry

You have a reading problem or just missing a few buggers in the penthouse?

I explicitly pointed out my impression being just that - my impression. What part of that do you have such problems grasping?

 

[Raven]

stealthers suck! :<

Random roglord casters ruining everything rox!

 

[falseth]

Hearing this guy talk and seeing his body language actually makes me think he's at that very moment on hardcore drugs. Or well, just drunk

gonna have to agree on that

 

[Aiteal]

You have a reading problem or just missing a few buggers in the penthouse?

I explicitly pointed out my impression being just that - my impression. What part of that do you have such problems grasping?

I'm perfectly aware of what an impression is.

I am however confused as to how you can form this impression of a multiple human beings spread over various ages and geographical locations with individual personalities and fluctuating moods from a collection of pixels on a computer screen.

Even for something as subjective as an impression that's quite a talent you have there

 

[Golly]

imo stealthers arent much of a problem, greifing to me is frustrating situations and that occurs everytime enough ppl come together to frontload and almost instagib me before i can respond

thats a problem in almost every mmorpg to an extent, in some situations its sanctioned eg a tank train in fg warfare, but as a solo'er vs 4 of anything its a frustrating situation

how will the inclusion of stealthers change this?in daoc a solo stealther doesnt have a 100% win vs anything as it is relatively balanced, the only 100% win is a group of 4 stealthers vs a solo'er (exaggerated but you see the point?)

anyway back onto topic, just read the vn version of this post and agree mythic really dont see the bonus of being a stealther and having the ability to pickupandplay instead of forming a group

cant they just make stealthers unable to group with no gains from "adding" onto a battle with any other stealthers, whatever WAR will use as rp's?

though this would lead to less group play and more "fps orientated" mindsets,which is what the masses enjoy and would draw in more casual gamers as well as pleasing elitists- they seem to want to aim at a group/zerg game design which as people have said is relatively flawed in terms of fun (zerg- esp as a melee as all will roll ae casters) and for the casual gamers (who cba forming groups just for a couple of runs to get wiped by the more serious gamers, then QQ and log

will be interesting to see if and how they overcome said problems

stealthers in daoc are relatively balanced, in fact i think as of 1.82 the game is quite well balanced on the whole, maybe drop caster dps by 10% or so (or give more ways to mitigate it and more variance in nukes- WH and SoM for caster damage plskthnx)

anyways carry on the constructive arguments, its closing in on 1am and the transfers have all been done an dusted so im a bit bored

 

[Andrilyn]

The first reason, you can't see what they are going to do until it's too late, hm reminds me of fgs running in on speed5 from cliprange to gank me.

Then you need to learn to pan
According to your statement Hibs would always win the CC war as they are the only ones with mach5 being present always in any group setup.
I can't pan for stealthers, nor do anything to prevent them from attacking me other than cast a PN and stand inside it the entire day or something.

But WH might become a really great game if (and that's a very big if) Mythic learns from the mistakes in DAoC.
No stealthers, no buffbots, every class be viable to solo with, base the PvP off skill more than Numbers > all, Balance every class so none of them will be gimped and never will get a group due to there being "better" classes etc etc.
But there's still too little known about it so I guess we'll just have to wait and hope they learned atleast something from their mistakes.

 

[Golly]

tools in mmo's arent generally hard to use, clicking buttons isnt rocket science, so to make skill > numbers you have to give powerful tools (and some harsh cc)

and as we know cc isnt the hardest thing to pull off, regardless of skill

unless they really make the terrain part of the war and key to success alongside a host of other things (maybe fatigue entwined with character or something similar) then numbers will almost always win, im guessing

 

[Andrilyn]

tools in mmo's arent generally hard to use, clicking buttons isnt rocket science, so to make skill > numbers you have to give powerful tools (and some harsh cc)

and as we know cc isnt the hardest thing to pull off, regardless of skill

unless they really make the terrain part of the war and key to success alongside a host of other things (maybe fatigue entwined with character or something similar) then numbers will almost always win, im guessing

Play GW and see the opposit, ah the times when playing GW we had 1 group vs 7 groups and won so easily those make me wish I was still playing that game
I agree that pressing a button ain't exactly rocket science but they could implent it this way that every ability had a certain counter that way you need somesort of skill to know what to do to counter the thing the other person/group is throwing at you which is more than just pressing a button.

Knowing what to attack and what to do against certain targets is also skill, sure in DAoC you can just press your nuke and if you are not interrupted chances are big your target dies but if you make counters for that nuke "protections" that need to be removed for instance then the "skill" level becomes already a bit higher and people with more skill will win over more numbers quite easily depending on the skill level of the "zerg" ofc.
In the end numbers will always matter ofc and 1 person vs 100 people well thats a no contest no matter how skilled that 1 person is but they could atleast make it so 20-30 highly skilled people > 100 zergers, like I said before this isn't the thing in DAoC as if you just press your attack button chances are very big that those 20-30 wont keep up with the damage no matter what amount of skill or what amount of abilities they throw at the zerg.

 

[liloe]

I can't pan for stealthers, nor do anything to prevent them from attacking me other than cast a PN and stand inside it the entire day or something.

I guess that's the point of stealthers, else they wouldn't be called stealthers. After all you don't call a cook a salesman aswell, do you? =)

Btw, go cast that prescience node and stand in the middle please, would be awesome, just gimme a min to log my m8s shade and buff up.

"You prepare to perform a Shadowstrike" =))