Nice One Iran!

tierk

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......Palestine supported the Nazis (and vice versa) during WW2........

How many of the 6,000,000 jews that died in gas chambers etc died at the hands of Palestinains? Now how many died at the hands of Germans, Romanians, Poles and pretty much all the eastern european countries? If this is the basis of having your country turned into a jewish state then there are quite a few other countries that would be faaaar ahead of Palestine on that list.

......A lot is better today than it was before and I doubt that the Arabs lived in a more peaceful way to the Jews than they do it today. At the moment we are in one if not in the most peaceful times the humans ever lived in.........

Maybe things are peaceful for you in Poland but they sure as hell aint peaceful in other pasrts of the world. Congo, Rwanda, Iraq, Colombia, the list of places were there is long standing conflicts is long.

Your assertion that you dont think that Arabs treated Jews better before all the troubles with Palestine is just your personal thoughts and not based in any sort of fact. Arabs and Jews hve long lived together in harmony and it has been the Europeans that have throughout history been the ones to persecute Jews, either in Europe or in the Holy Land whenever they have set foot there.

......You didn't make any points about the lack of the education in for example Palestine. You didn't make any points to of how sovereign islamistic countries are (Iran) or were (Afghanistan) ruled?.........

How do you expect any kids to get a education when they are forced to go through 500 road blocks, get searched, need a billion passes to get from there home to the school or university? FyI Palestinians people are one of the more highly educated people in the arab world and if you had ever been to the Middle East you would know this. Its just that in Palestine its a bit difficult to go to school.

As for you asking about the government in Iran and how it is run i would say to you what business of your is it? If they dont like there system of government they will change it themselves just as they did when they got rid of the Shah. You would have thought that after all the wars fought to try and change systems of government or prop up unpopular ones people would have learnt change can only come from within unless you expend a vaste amount of resource to efffect change as in ww2 against Germany.



......It's a clash of cultures at the moment for me. On the one side the modern countries seeing human rights as universal, who managed to seperate religion from state and on the otherside countries ruled by despots or religious fanatics.........

lol human rights? That is what you think this is about? Its about the same thing that humans have been fighting for over centuries: Land and resources but now we like to dress it up as something else to try and make ourselves feel better about it.



......Following your way I could ask to restore the power back to when Poland was great power in Europe. I don't think that the Palestinian people need more land in order to survive......

You just dont read very well. At no point i have said that the Palestinians should have all of Palestine back but should as a bare miniuim have back what has been allocated to them by the UN. Your failure to read what i type is just unreal and consider this the last post i make responding to your idiotic posts.


...... I understand it if they want their old identity back, but I think it's a delusion - it will not change anything for the people and the way some are persuing this goal is just getting them and others killed, nothing else.

Its delusional to want there lands back? I stand by my comments you are one dumb fucker.
 

Calaen

I am a massive cock who isn't firing atm!
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Its delusional to want there lands back? I stand by my comments you are one dumb fucker.

Of course its delusional, who in their right mind would want to give people that thinks its fine to blow themselves anything at all?
 

Manisch Depressiv

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I've said that the past times have been way more violent than the ones we're all living in now. Yes, even in Africa it is more peaceful today than it was 1000, 2000 or 100k years ago. I provided even a source, I mentioned a movie to watch. So much on my "personal thoughts" and "no facts", where if you'd take the time to watch the movie I mentioned you'd realize that it was a lecture based on a scientific research. You can read the bible if you want to imagine how violent it was.

You're throwing Germany, Rumenia and Poland in regards of the genocide on Jews into the same bowl, how absurd is that?

You said Palestina had nothing to do with the trouble of the Jews during WW2, why did Amin al-Husseini become a guest of Hitler in Germany and a SS member? He organized Muslim support troops for the Wehrmacht. Maybe it's just me uninformed again, maybe it's just me who is able to read that actually almost the whole Arab world hoped that Hitler would win.

Btw you can keep your cover of eloquency up for longer if you don't call me a dumb fucker while not being able to distinguish "there" from "their".

And yes, trying to get back an identity in the ways the PLO, Fatah and Hamas try/tried is delusional.

It's a lot of my business how things are being run in Iran, it's called empathy, something you're obviously lacking.

Thanks for running away from a discussion.
 

tierk

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.....while not being able to distinguish "there" from "their"......

I have noticed you have a tendency to start on peoples typo's when you dont have anything useful to say, just fyi ....

....Do you know the UN human rights ? charta?....

Charter would be the correct spelling.

.....It's a lot of my business how things are being run in Iran, it's called empathy, something you're obviously lacking.......

Please keep your empathy for the people of other countries as well as your armed forces to your own country.

.....Thanks for running away from a discussion.

As i stated earlier no point discussing squat with you as shgown by past history on these forums.
 

Calaen

I am a massive cock who isn't firing atm!
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I thought you had finished with responding to him? You are making a liar out of yourself.
 

Wonk

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Cows are milked for an average of 3-4 years. A cow must have a calf in order to produce milk.Calves are fed milk until they are 8-9 weeks old.
 

crispy

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Of course its delusional, who in their right mind would want to give people that thinks its fine to blow themselves anything at all?

So youre pretty cool with Israel invading their territory i guess?

And Manich, what is your point in one palestinean being anti-semitic in pre WW2?
 

Gorbachioo

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Tierk you do make some good points but you loose all your credibility because you dont seem to find any fault in the arabs.


You're response to the anti semitism by palestinians in ww2?

The jews were after their lands!

"With both of those links you will note that problems arose after the Balfour Declaration of 1917 when it became abundantly clear, what the intentions of the incoming settlers where. Late 19th century onwards saw a big increase in the number of Jews coming to live in Palestine, the Jews living in Palestine before then where in a very small minority." (Your words)

And that makes it ok?


My opinion is that Israel does actually have the right for the land they got in 67. Why? They were attacked and they won. However, giving it back would show some good will and isnt really too much to ask, considering the history. But lets not forget that the palestinians are far from innocent.
 

kivik

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Sweden supported Hitler during WW2 aswell. They even sent swedish jews to Germany to be killed.

Thought you would like to know!
 

tierk

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Tierk you do make some good points but you loose all your credibility because you dont seem to find any fault in the arabs.....

At no point do i say that arabs are innocent or blameless a lot of things have happened that should make both sides be ashamed. However, as i asked in a earlier post what would you do? I dont know which country you are from but i would love to know what the reaction would be to circumstanmces similar to those that occured in Palestine, say in England or anywhere else for that matter?


You're response to the anti semitism by palestinians in ww2?......

Yes those are my words and i stand by them. I just cant understand what reaction people would expect? To greet them with open arms when they have made it patently obvious what their (just for you Manisch) intentions are.

And that makes it ok?......

I am guessing that if a thief tried to break into your house you would give him the keys and move out.


My opinion is that Israel does actually have the right for the land they got in 67.....

To the victor go the spoils? Ok i can understand that thinking but then there should be no complaints when they are on the receiving end of terrorist attacks.

However, giving it back would show some good will and isnt really too much to ask, considering the history. But lets not forget that the palestinians are far from innocent.

Sounds a lot like what i have been saying all along.
 

Calaen

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So youre pretty cool with Israel invading their territory i guess?

And Manich, what is your point in one palestinean being anti-semitic in pre WW2?

They have been there for years its not like they done it yesterday. Aick of people moaning about shit that happens decades ago, let it go already.
 

crispy

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They have been there for years its not like they done it yesterday. Aick of people moaning about shit that happens decades ago, let it go already.

So if I come to your home town and throw you out you will be pretty cool with it 40 years later? I think not.

And why should the palestines let go? Israel certanly wont let it go of it (the occupied territory) :>
 

Calaen

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So if I come to your home town and throw you out you will be pretty cool with it 40 years later? I think not.

And why should the palestines let go? Israel certanly wont let it go of it (the occupied territory) :>

The problem is the children that are strapping bombs to themselves were not around when it happened, they are being used as tools by the people who were around then but are to fucking cowardly to do anything themselves. So they breed hatred, take children and teach them how to purposely hurt people with no gain for themselves.

If you come to my home town and threw me out of my house, the police would come and arrest you. Its called living in a civilised country, where the people that run it do actually half care about normal people and they dont terrorise people for having a different view to that of themselves.
 

Fafnir

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Sweden supported Hitler during WW2 aswell. They even sent swedish jews to Germany to be killed.

Thought you would like to know!
Hmmmm never heard anywhere that we sent swedish jews to Germany, we did turn back danish jews at the beginning of their flight from Denmark but in the end we took in around 7.000 danish jews, 900 norwegian jews. And then we had Mr Wallenberg who saved 1.000-100.000 jews, and our white busses.

We also set up camps near the norwegian border to help and train resistance fighters. Sure we let germans transport troops between 1940-1943, we sold iron ore to Germany. But we also sold to England, let allied aircrafts land and took their pilots in, sure they where not allowed to return home but we didnt turn them over to Germany. Sweden was neutral, played both was with the Allied and Germany.

But in the end what could we have done? Gone to war with either the allied or Germany would have ended with a ravaged Sweden, no jews or other people helped. And Mr. Muppety Hitler also new an invasion meant a few years of digging out destroyed ore mines.

Sure we had sweds join the German armed forces and SS. But we also had sweds join the allied.



But to get back to the thread, if people in this thread can't get along. How can we think that people in the middle east or the rest of the world can get along.

And the middle eastern question is to me a rather complicated one, seeing the jews has been around there for a few thousand years along with the other people's. But senseless killing never solves anything just makes the questions more infected. Best would be for all parties just to take a step back.

From the religious schools i have no good to say, having a friend who ran from one after being sent to it by his fanatic mother and father.

Remember reading about one of the high Iranian religious members who are being kept in house arrest due to the fact he didnt agree with the others in Iran about how to go about their buisness. There is an article about him floating around somewhere but just cant find it.
 

crispy

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The problem is the children that are strapping bombs to themselves were not around when it happened, they are being used as tools by the people who were around then but are to fucking cowardly to do anything themselves. So they breed hatred, take children and teach them how to purposely hurt people with no gain for themselves.

If you come to my home town and threw me out of my house, the police would come and arrest you. Its called living in a civilised country, where the people that run it do actually half care about normal people and they dont terrorise people for having a different view to that of themselves.

Either way, you are saying that because some palestines are bombing themselves, the rest of them shouldnt get back their homes. The question isnt: 'does the palestines deserve their homes?', but rather: 'what are the israelis doing there anyway?'.

Dont you agree that it would be much harder for terrorists to recruit people (not only palestine suicide bombers, but for ALL) if the palestines were given back the occupied territories (that means israeli settelements on israeli controlled palestine soil), and make Jerusalem a neutral city again? The sooner Palestine becomes a real state the sooner the attacks on israelis by palestines will stop (well probably not stop entirely.. its the middle east for gods sake ;))
 

Chronictank

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If you come to my home town and threw me out of my house, the police would come and arrest you. Its called living in a civilised country, where the people that run it do actually half care about normal people and they dont terrorise people for having a different view to that of themselves.
If you want to keep the anology,
what if the police decide that crispy now owns your house?
 

Calaen

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quite simply not possible, he would have to have signed an agreement with regards to having a mortgage.
 

Calaen

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Police have no say in housing matters regarding owners. Solicitors from both parties would have had to be involved.

You just cannot compare it. I get the whole thing, I just do not understand why it just goes around and around.
 

crispy

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Nevermind that police discussion its way OT - read #196 instead.

On another note, the US congress (or whoever controls this) just put the iranian army on the list of terror organisations - pretty neat when they got a war on terror no? :p
 

Ctuchik

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My point is they are creating more tension when they would be better served to let the IAEA do their job and agree to all the monitoring..

they are just showing USA that iran have FAR more to answer with then iraq could ever dream off (although its the yearly "parade" its still a message). and they WILL use every single missile they got if USA so much as spit on them.


now all we gotta do is wait and see if Bush is stupid enough to take the bait. i'm fairly certain that he will.
 

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