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[DaGaffer]

You of course are entitled to your opinion.

He was professor of English at Oxford and was writing for his own intellectual enjoyment. The language used is beyond shakespearean (especially to a 12 year old) - and it was written like a homeric epic but once I got into the swing of it I found I utterly adored it.

But then kids today hate Quake. Too hard. No auto-aim. Not for mass consumption.

Blegh.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8SLT5fmreU

 

[Scouse]

Blegh.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8SLT5fmreU

That's a pop at Shakespear. And we're not calling the bard shit are we?

Tolkein's better than the bard IMO. Old Bill had to poop out stuff commercial enough for the masses to enjoy on a nightly basis.

Tolkein was catering to his own enormous intellect (who invents a coherent language for fun simply so it can form part of a solid cultural foundation to build stories upon?). So the natural result is that it would have a more limited appeal.

It's harder, absolutely. And it's fine to not get on with it. But if you don't get on with Shakespear, and many don't for they can't get past the language, it doesn't make it shite.

It's storytelling on a different level. It's not just George RR Martin on acid or Circle Of Wank.

It's art for art's sake. And glorious for it.

 

[Ormorof]

Reads like something from r/iamverysmart

Just because something is written in incoherent language for the sake of it doesn't make it good

 

[DaGaffer]

That's a pop at Shakespear. And we're not calling the bard shit are we?

Tolkein's better than the bard IMO. Old Bill had to poop out stuff commercial enough for the masses to enjoy on a nightly basis.

Tolkein was catering to his own enormous intellect (who invents a coherent language for fun simply so it can form part of a solid cultural foundation to build stories upon?). So the natural result is that it would have a more limited appeal.

It's harder, absolutely. And it's fine to not get on with it. But if you don't get on with Shakespear, and many don't for they can't get past the language, it doesn't make it shite.

It's storytelling on a different level. It's not just George RR Martin on acid or Circle Of Wank.

It's art for art's sake. And glorious for it.

But its not storytelling. Not really. Its like the biggest pretentious fanfic starter pack in history.

 

[Scouse]

Reads like something from r/iamverysmart

Just because something is written in incoherent language for the sake of it doesn't make it good

1) Completely coherent language.
2) Do the fact that some people hate Shakespear make it shit? Or classical music?

Your argument is anti-intellectual. It excludes the possibility that intelligent people can have art that is good and has value but remains either misunderstood or indecipherable for most people**.

I also know many people who think that genuinely liking Shakespear is pretentious intellectual waffle and IQ posing.

These people are also wrong.

Look. When we start to stray into discussions about "clever enough" in matters of art we go nowhere. It's a losing, pointless argument. But it doesn't invalidate the argument - we're happy to say "I don't get rocket science" and not say "rocket science is a load of pretentious shit".

Tolkein is revered as a writer and an intellectual for good reasons. But not for a second do you have to like any of his work.

I love it though. Made up fantasy that it is (a genre I have professed my genuine hatred of). And that's because, unlike any other writer of pure fantasy, he built a world, a geography, fully working languages, a history, a greco-roman style mythology, an ecology and then he plonked a childrens book and a world class follow-up, which held commentaries on humanity, brotherhood and an allegory for the destruction wrought by our rapidly industrialising British society. All in one place.

Amazing.

**(although I insist that I know people who love the Silmarillion who ain't exactly PhD students)

 

[Scouse]

***and for gwad and aoami, he made it for and about white people - foreign lands, like africa, were as far away from his writing as they were in his lived reality - they existed, but it wasn't what he was writing about or for. If Amazon want to mix up the colours - why not write it past the borders of his very clear map?

 

[Ormorof]

Not liking it doesnt make anyone an anti-intellectual anymore than liking it makes you an intellectual. Claiming the previous does make you sound like a bit of a pretentious douche though

Tolkien being revered as a writer doesnt mean that i have to think its any good, or that it is any good (what a wonderful objective word to use anyway ), i like lord of the rings (books and film) but Silmarillion was not for me seeing as it lacked anything to keep me interested (unlike, you know, the books he is hugely famous for)


Anyhoo i might watch it, then I'll decide if i think its any good or not for myself

 

[Gwadien]

***and for gwad and aoami, he made it for and about white people - foreign lands, like africa, were as far away from his writing as they were in his lived reality - they existed, but it wasn't what he was writing about or for. If Amazon want to mix up the colours - why not write it past the borders of his very clear map?

This is my point though, it's not outside the realm of possibility.

Anyway, there's loads of complaints about the couple of minute trailer, I guess people are always going to complain about something, that's just what is done these days.

Imagine if the likes of Sharpe was created today -literally- showing the same battle scenes at different points.

 

[Aoami]

***and for gwad and aoami, he made it for and about white people - foreign lands, like africa, were as far away from his writing as they were in his lived reality - they existed, but it wasn't what he was writing about or for. If Amazon want to mix up the colours - why not write it past the borders of his very clear map?

He was literally born in South Africa you insufferable twat.

 

[Scouse]

He was literally born in South Africa you insufferable twat.

Was his book?

 

[dysfunction]

He was literally born in South Africa you insufferable twat.

He left when he was 3 ffs

 

[Scouse]

He left when he was 3 ffs

And it doesn't change the fact that the book (as he intended) is set in white white "england" (misty mountains being wales, as Led Zep knew) - and southern Europe and Africa are places further off his map...

 

[Ormorof]

Tolkien also publicly stated he was setting it up so others could add to it with their own intentions Something about paint and drama if i recall

 

[Aoami]

Was his book?

What does that even mean? You said Africa was outside his lived his reality when he was born there.

 

[Overdriven]

What does that even mean? You said Africa was outside his lived his reality when he was born there.

You don't have long term memory which is good enough to remember what life was like at 3 years old.

 

[Aoami]

You don't have long term memory which is good enough to remember what life was like at 3 years old.

‘Africa… always moves me deeply’: J R R Tolkien in Bloemfontein

This article on the early childhood of J R R Tolkien relies on newly discovered South African sources, including archival materials and studies by South African historians. Mallorn (The Tolkien Society's journal), Winter 2014.

www.academia.edu

The lengths people are going to here...

 

[Scouse]

‘Africa… always moves me deeply’: J R R Tolkien in Bloemfontein

This article on the early childhood of J R R Tolkien relies on newly discovered South African sources, including archival materials and studies by South African historians. Mallorn (The Tolkien Society's journal), Winter 2014.

www.academia.edu

The lengths people are going to here...

The mental flips and twists you're performing are indeed quite staggering.

What has Africa got to do with the book?

 

[DaGaffer]

‘Africa… always moves me deeply’: J R R Tolkien in Bloemfontein

This article on the early childhood of J R R Tolkien relies on newly discovered South African sources, including archival materials and studies by South African historians. Mallorn (The Tolkien Society's journal), Winter 2014.

www.academia.edu

The lengths people are going to here...

Well, speaking as someone who lived in South Africa as a toddler and returned to England when I was four...yeah, bollocks. Fragments is all anyone has of that age. I actually had two very vivid memories of South Africa, both of which I got the opportunity to test out when I went back to SA as an adult, and of course they're nothing like the memories of an infant.

Scanning through that article even the biographer asking him about his memories was clearly skeptical about his claimed recollections.

 

[Scouse]

It's not about Africa. The topic @Aoami's whining about is the fact thatvTolkein wrote about white people. It was a mythology for England, not africa, and he's all hurt that people are pointing that hypocrisy out.

 

[Overdriven]

‘Africa… always moves me deeply’: J R R Tolkien in Bloemfontein

This article on the early childhood of J R R Tolkien relies on newly discovered South African sources, including archival materials and studies by South African historians. Mallorn (The Tolkien Society's journal), Winter 2014.

www.academia.edu

The lengths people are going to here...

If you have active recallable non-fragmented memories of when you're three years old and can write a book about it you're a medical marvel.

You'd remember being there, geographically. You'd not have the cognitive function for anything beyond fragmented memory.

Source: Neuroscience.

 

[Overdriven]

Anyway:

Reacher - Am on episode 3 and really enjoying it. Hope it just stays this silly all the way through.

Snowpiercer S3 is still on my list too.

 

[Scouse]

It's not about Africa. The topic @Aoami's whining about is the fact that Tolkein wrote about white people. It was a mythology for England, not africa, and he's all hurt that people are pointing that cultural appropriation, if it's a thing, should work both ways.

White Panther!*

*(two wrongs don't make a right, you can't make up for black people being downtrodden in the past by doing the same to white people today. If we don't have a colourblind culture then white is still a colour)

 

[SilverHood]

Anyway:

Reacher - Am on episode 3 and really enjoying it. Hope it just stays this silly all the way through.

Snowpiercer S3 is still on my list too.

Reacher is consistently excellent all the way through. I'm looking forward to the next season, apparently it's going to be based on Die Trying.

 

[caLLous]

In an effort to steer this thread back to television instead of whatever the fuck the last 2 pages have been about... Peacemaker is great and has been renewed for a second season.

 

[Scouse]

I turned up in Malta for 4 days work two weeks ago and haven't even seen a TV to be fair.

Kobra Kai S4(3?). Watched EP1 before I left.

Don't think I've got that much life left to burn up. They should have found a way to resolve it in S1.

 

[Yoni]

Vox Machina also good (and rated 100% / 93% RT).. it has been criticised because of the humor (it is considered a bit base but it was base in the campaign so true to source) and will also have a 2nd season. I have loved the adaptation so far - final 3 episodes drop tomorrow.

 

[MYstIC G]

In an effort to steer this thread back to television instead of whatever the fuck the last 2 pages have been about... Peacemaker is great and has been renewed for a second season.

I belly laughed at

Spoiler

It's not a rumour

 

[Aoami]

It's not about Africa. The topic @Aoami's whining about is the fact that Tolkein wrote about white people. It was a mythology for England, not africa, and he's all hurt that people are pointing that cultural appropriation, if it's a thing, should work both ways.

White Panther!*

*(two wrongs don't make a right, you can't make up for black people being downtrodden in the past by doing the same to white people today. If we don't have a colourblind culture then white is still a colour)

Not really the same thing is it? Making the comparison just makes you sound like the boozy old racist who sits in the corner of the pub on his own.

Black Panther is specifically about black people, specifically about a black populated country in Africa, specifically about the advancement of black people.

Whilst admittedly Tolkien has said that The Shire is based on England, other points of reference for Middle Earth are Jerusalem, Troy and Cyprus.

Even if it were a good comparison, you stated yourself that two wrongs don't make a right. Last I'll say on it as it's obviously getting boring now, but I just find it mad that in 2022 people are writing something off just because it has a few black people in it. The same way i'd think it was mad if people wrote off Black Panther if it had a few white people in it. It's not really any more nuanced than that for me.

 

[scoop]

New season of Resident Alien is out. Tis a fun, goofy show.

Purchased a VPN sub so that i could watch it on the Syfy app. Geez- how do Americans cope. Adverts literally every 5 minutes. Had to torrent in the end

 

[SilverHood]

Has anyone watched Mr Robot? I watched the first 3-4 episodes, and found the premise interesting, but not sure it's worth my time investment to keep going.

As for adverts in America, I couldn't do it. When I moved into my own place, I never got cable TV, just internet. You literally need to do something else while watching TV. Like reading a book. Occasionally I'll try the IMDB channel free movies with adds, but they're structured so that the ads are short at the begining of the movie, but at the end, it's 10 minutes of adverts for 5 minutes of movie.