TV New Season!

[Gwadien]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCLoZI-FOYA


There you go @Scouse more for you to moan about

 

[Gwadien]

TV tonight: Louis Theroux’s disturbing encounter with America’s far right

The famed documentarian meets internet trolls in the opening episode of his new series. Plus: Erin O’Doherty continues to be brilliantly complex in Chloe. Here’s everything to watch tonight

www.theguardian.com

Best mate is producer on this doc, BBC 2 at 9pm

Call me a weirdo, but I legit have more respect for neo-nazis over these erm... America Firsters?

At least they have the conviction to stand by what they believe in, rather than just going ape shit when people try to work out what they stand for.

 

[Aoami]

I'm still convinced that these guys are just edgelords who found a way to make easy money so have rolled with it. My mate who did the show so knows them all thinks otherwise though.

 

[dysfunction]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCLoZI-FOYA


There you go @Scouse more for you to moan about

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QJbAbe2yyo

sums it up really

 

[Scouse]

Perfect.

 

[Aoami]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QJbAbe2yyo

sums it up really

Got about 4 minutes in. Absolutely pathetic. Imagine judging something and writing it off before even seeing it just because it has black people in it. There is a word for that I think.

Also, on Galadriel, there are plenty of people suggesting that there is nothing in the lore that contradicts her fighting on the front line or being in armour, and that Tolkien described her as Amazonian and capable of incredible physical feats.

 

[dysfunction]

Got about 4 minutes in. Absolutely pathetic. Imagine judging something and writing it off before even seeing it just because it has black people in it. There is a word for that I think.

Also, on Galadriel, there are plenty of people suggesting that there is nothing in the lore that contradicts her fighting on the front line or being in armour, and that Tolkien described her as Amazonian and capable of incredible physical feats.

Lets wait and see then shall we.
Who are these people that are suggesting this? Just because it's a suggestion doesnt make it true.

 

[Aoami]

Galadriel

Galadriel was a Noldorin Lady who witnessed Middle-earth during the Three Ages. Galadriel was born in Aman as one of the Noldor. She was the daughter of Finarfin...

tolkiengateway.net

Mentions her being referred to as "Amazon like" here, and her taking part in battles in the first age, and that the image we have of Galadriel wasn't cultivated until the 3rd age.

Boo boys just jumping all over this for no reason other than they don't want it to be good.

As for waiting and seeing... Why wouldn't you? Why would you judge the most expensive TV show of all time based on a 1 minute trailer? If it's purely because there is black people in it then I don't really know what to say.

 

[dysfunction]

Galadriel

Galadriel was a Noldorin Lady who witnessed Middle-earth during the Three Ages. Galadriel was born in Aman as one of the Noldor. She was the daughter of Finarfin...

tolkiengateway.net

Mentions her being referred to as "Amazon like" here, and her taking part in battles in the first age, and that the image we have of Galadriel wasn't cultivated until the 3rd age.

Boo boys just jumping all over this for no reason other than they don't want it to be good.

As for waiting and seeing... Why wouldn't you? Why would you judge the most expensive TV show of all time based on a 1 minute trailer? If it's purely because there is black people in it then I don't really know what to say.

I think you read that wrong. An Amazon disposition is not "Amazon Like". Also she is an Elf. Very slim and tall. You know like how she was portrayed in The Lord of the Rings by Cate Blanchet.

Elven characteristics - Tolkien Gateway

tolkiengateway.net

.

 

[Scouse]

Boo boys just jumping all over this for no reason other than they don't want it to be good.

I'd love it to be good. A real quality multimillion dollar conversion of the Silmarillion would be something to behold.

But I think the questions posed are valid and fair. From the snippets that have been released so far the accusation that the writers are taking huge liberties with Tolkein's world seem well-founded.

Of course, if you've never read the books/don't give a shit that's absolutely fine. And I'm assuming you don't mind if they call it something completely different too? Maybe Sminky McFinkpants Goes To Town?

Because if Tolkein's world doesn't matter - why pretend that it's Tolkein's world? Just call it something else / make something else and be done with it?

 

[Aoami]

I think you read that wrong. An Amazon disposition is not "Amazon Like". Also she is an Elf. Very slim and tall. You know like how she was portrayed in The Lord of the Rings by Cate Blanchet.

Elven characteristics - Tolkien Gateway

tolkiengateway.net

.

But it also states in the article that that image that we see in the films wasn't cultivated until the 3rd age. What's the difference between Amazon disposition and Amazon like? Sounds like splitting hairs.

 

[Aoami]

I'd love it to be good. A real quality multimillion dollar conversion of the Silmarillion would be something to behold.

But I think the questions posed are valid and fair. From the snippets that have been released so far the accusation that the writers are taking huge liberties with Tolkein's world seem well-founded.

Of course, if you've never read the books/don't give a shit that's absolutely fine. And I'm assuming you don't mind if they call it something completely different too? Maybe Sminky McFinkpants Goes To Town?

Because if Tolkein's world doesn't matter - why pretend that it's Tolkein's world? Just call it something else / make something else and be done with it?

Sorry that your immersion in a world that is complete fantasy is ruined by the colour of someones skin. At the end of the day, that's what the argument seems to boil down to.

 

[Gwadien]

I'd love it to be good. A real quality multimillion dollar conversion of the Silmarillion would be something to behold.

But I think the questions posed are valid and fair. From the snippets that have been released so far the accusation that the writers are taking huge liberties with Tolkein's world seem well-founded.

Of course, if you've never read the books/don't give a shit that's absolutely fine. And I'm assuming you don't mind if they call it something completely different too? Maybe Sminky McFinkpants Goes To Town?

Because if Tolkein's world doesn't matter - why pretend that it's Tolkein's world? Just call it something else / make something else and be done with it?

Because Tolkein sells, if you're gonna spend a billion quid on something you wanna make sure it has good branding.

Why do you care anyway? You think all fantasy is shit anyway why are you jumping on this bandwagon?

Also isnt this the bit that Tolkein didn't finish?

 

[dysfunction]

But it also states in the article that that image that we see in the films wasn't cultivated until the 3rd age. What's the difference between Amazon disposition and Amazon like? Sounds like splitting hairs.

Amazon like would be an Amazon shaped women like the Amazonians in Wonder Women. All muscular and strong looking.
An Amazon disposition is to do with your character and not your body shape.

It's not splitting hairs. These differences are important as it dictates a lot of how the character is portrayed.
Details are important

 

[Gwadien]

Amazon like would be an Amazon shaped women like the Amazonians in Wonder Women. All muscular and strong looking.
An Amazon disposition is to do with your character and not your body shape.

It's not splitting hairs. These differences are important as it dictates a lot of how the character is portrayed.
Details are important

The only criticism is that she was wearing armour in one scene.

I'd be more annoyed if she wasn't wearing armour at battle...

 

[dysfunction]

The only criticism is that she was wearing armour in one scene.

I'd be more annoyed if she wasn't wearing armour at battle...

Do elves wear armour in Tolkien's books?

 

[Gwadien]

Do elves wear armour in Tolkien's books?

They did in the films and I don't remember and cancel culture about that?

Unless you're referring to the high/wood elves (don't remember what they're actually called), but then they've never been in battle in the books because they're known (at that point) for being pretty withdrawn from the world.

Why would elves that are super precious about their immortality go to a large scale battle without wearing armour? Seems counter intuitive

 

[Aoami]

Amazon like would be an Amazon shaped women like the Amazonians in Wonder Women. All muscular and strong looking.
An Amazon disposition is to do with your character and not your body shape.

It's not splitting hairs. These differences are important as it dictates a lot of how the character is portrayed.
Details are important

Surely Amazon disposition rather than Amazon like lends more strength to my argument though?

 

[Gwadien]

Can someone answer my question though?

Is the part they're making a series about a bit that Tolkein barely worked on before he died? IE isn't it a pretty blank canvas anyway?

 

[Aoami]

Do you know what really ruined the Harry Potter films for me? Ron Weasley was tall and skinny in the books but was short and tubby in the films. Made it unwatchable, completely ruined the immersion.

In the Lord of the Rings films, the main character was played by an American! Even though this complete fantasy world is apparently meant to be in Europe. Awful. Couldn't watch.

Funny how things like this don't matter until it's about race.

 

[Gwadien]

Do you know what really ruined the Harry Potter films for me? Ron Weasley was tall and skinny in the books but was short and tubby in the films. Made it unwatchable, completely ruined the immersion.

In the Lord of the Rings films, the main character was played by an American! Even though this complete fantasy world is apparently meant to be in Europe. Awful. Couldn't watch.

Funny how things like this don't matter until it's about race.

Well to be fair, it was a different time too, it wasn't fashionable to analyse every decision made by casting...

 

[Raven]

The video did mention that if white people were cast in black panther as Africans then people would lose their shit, which they would. Iirc there are zero black people in LOTR. There is a lot of hypocrisy.

Personally, I couldn't care less, it's not going to change whether I enjoy it or not.

 

[Gwadien]

The video did mention that if white people were cast in black panther as Africans then people would lose their shit, which they would. Iirc there are zero black people in LOTR. There is a lot of hypocrisy.

Personally, I couldn't care less, it's not going to change whether I enjoy it or not.

Well, considering the Black Panther was created in response to 'there's no many black super heroes are there?' yeah, it'd kinda be a bit weird.

I wonder if Tolkein actually mentions skin colour at any point in the book, sure it's meant to represent England/Europe, but does that mean the 'rest' of the world can't exist?

Anyway, seems silly to speculate over a trailer, guess it's best to wait until it comes out, maybe there's a reason why they're in there, and maybe it's very well explained/done.

Tolkien's estate decided they were happy to go ahead with what's being done, and I don't think anyone has a bigger say.

 

[Ormorof]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QJbAbe2yyo

sums it up really

got about 20 seconds in what the hell is wrong with his voice has he had a stroke or something

 

[Raven]

Well, considering the Black Panther was created in response to 'there's no many black super heroes are there?' yeah, it'd kinda be a bit weird.

I wonder if Tolkein actually mentions skin colour at any point in the book, sure it's meant to represent England/Europe, but does that mean the 'rest' of the world can't exist?

Anyway, seems silly to speculate over a trailer, guess it's best to wait until it comes out, maybe there's a reason why they're in there, and maybe it's very well explained/done.

Tolkien's estate decided they were happy to go ahead with what's being done, and I don't think anyone has a bigger say.

I think he does for the different species, except man, I haven't read it in years and don't remember tbh. They could make some men black and not have any issue, especially as the "baddy" men, with the elephants and whatnot, could come from anywhere.

Then there is the science of it, the different species came from small (ish) areas, within a small landmass, not different continents. Give it a few hundred years and there will (largely) be one race of humans as the different races mix, so really if there were ever black elves or dwarfs they would likely all be mixed race anyway, given the small area they all live in.

 

[Gwadien]

I think he does for the different species, except man, I haven't read it in years and don't remember tbh. They could make some men black and not have any issue, especially as the "baddy" men, with the elephants and whatnot, could come from anywhere.

Then there is the science of it, the different species came from small (ish) areas, within a small landmass, not different continents. Give it a few hundred years and there will (largely) be one race of humans as the different races mix, so really if there were ever black elves or dwarfs they would likely all be mixed race anyway, given the small area they all live in.

The books are meant to represent a small part of the world, I think there's a land off to the west where the Elves originally came from and there was land in between that sunk or something (I remember this from some LOTR youtube fan boy from ages ago)

So the rest of the 'world' isn't explored from the readers perspective, which is what I mean by a blank canvas; why not build on what Tolkien made? Is that a war crime? If so shouldn't we take issue with say all the adaptations of Shakespeare that aren't accurate to what the bard originally said?

It's not outside of the realm of possibility that an 'African' continent exists, and somehow has shut itself off from the rest of the 'world' during the events of the books.

Said youtube channel's video on it - I've not watched it.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQmGXbXpw80

 

[Scouse]

Sounds like you've all actually read his work and not just watched the Peter Jackson films. Right?

Tolkien's estate decided they were happy to go ahead with what's being done, and I don't think anyone has a bigger say.

Christopher Tolkein was utterly dismayed by what the films did - popularised the films, not his father's work.

This is why the estate hasn't licenced the 1st age - they didn't want Bezos fucking up the Silmarillion.

 

[DaGaffer]

I'd love it to be good. A real quality multimillion dollar conversion of the Silmarillion would be something to behold.

But I think the questions posed are valid and fair. From the snippets that have been released so far the accusation that the writers are taking huge liberties with Tolkein's world seem well-founded.

Of course, if you've never read the books/don't give a shit that's absolutely fine. And I'm assuming you don't mind if they call it something completely different too? Maybe Sminky McFinkpants Goes To Town?

Because if Tolkein's world doesn't matter - why pretend that it's Tolkein's world? Just call it something else / make something else and be done with it?

The Silmarillion is unreadable tripe. Fight me.

 

[Wij]

The Silmarillion is unreadable tripe. Fight me.

Bored the nips off me.

 

[Scouse]

The Silmarillion is unreadable tripe. Fight me.

You of course are entitled to your opinion.

He was professor of English at Oxford and was writing for his own intellectual enjoyment. The language used is beyond shakespearean (especially to a 12 year old) - and it was written like a homeric epic but once I got into the swing of it I found I utterly adored it.

But then kids today hate Quake. Too hard. No auto-aim. Not for mass consumption.