Nerf what, boost what, why, and how?

[Cush]

Originally posted by zapzap
Thanes !

Give them DET and cheap RA some say.
Then who would group a warrior savage berserker ?
group of 3 healers shammy 3 thanes skald then ?

Thane with DET would be the uber TANK with instean DD, DD , aoe damage,pb damage, dps self, slam and chain.

Not sure how long any caster would survive with 3 assisting thanes cant even outrun them.
Hib PBAE group would suffer big time if thane got cheap RAs thanes with EM 2 then standing in pbae interupting every hib minus the Hero while they could hit away. would need all Ras rdy to counter that.

Cheaper RAs for thane maybe but DET would make them uber, special big troll thanes like kephan would bring out the WIIINE like never b4.
I hope they look at styles and give thane a purpose to spec weapon to 50 like champs.

Zapsi

why stand in the pbaoe and interupt? MJOLNIR4TEHWIN!!!

 

[zapzap]

Originally posted by umilard
Zapsi, warriors still do higher damage than thanes, right? and have more defence.. And savages would still be great without determination, they can still /assist and stuff, only that you would now be able to stop them for more than 2 seconds

I say give them determination, but keep purge/ip at high cost.

Warriors has a WS bonus but damage higher then Thane not much if thane would spec 50 weap and the self dps makes up for WS, better defence not much how often u see a warrior use big shield ? Almost nothing a warrior can do better then thane other then having cheap RAs and DET. BUT DET is all atm so sux without it.

Zapsi

 

[twistedmind]

Originally posted by fyric
overpowered classes imo:

midgard:

Savages, as of now, the by far most overpowered class in game, specced h2h its the most damaging melee class in the game, alongside having the best defence in game(50% advanced evade, 50% melee resistances etc).

possible solution: hybrid dmg table, removal of determination cheap ip etc, standard evade instead of advanced.

shaman: pbae disease should be removed imo, seems about the only thing tho

albion:

infiltrator, 2.5 pts a level, tremendous bonus, along with dragonfang

possible solution: remove the stun effect from dragonfang and upgrade the damage abit, 2.2 pts a level,

hibernia:

hero:
seems abit odd that the caster realm have the 2/3rd best melee class in game, both spear heroes and lw heroes does a very high amount of damage, along with having slam, along with moose makes em very hard to kill as well, takes awhile to kill 2 x 3xxxx hp thats hitting your support for 500 a hit

possible solution: lowering of moose hp increase, lower damage on annihilation and dragon talon/cuchulans revenge combo.


underpowered classes:

midgard:

thane: too low dmg for being a melee'er from the melee realm.

bonedancer: while superior when solo they are about as useless as all other casters in group vs group combats.

runemaster: caster(obvious)

spiritmaster: caster(obvious)


albion:

armsman: seems the damage from this class just isn't good enough


all casters exept sorc thats needed in groups.


hibernia:

animist: seems useless, not quite sure, haven't actually seen many of em around.

eldritchcaster)

mentalistcaster)


enchanter seems balanced imo, as the only damage caster, all casters should be able to do this kinda damage. its not for nothing they stand in robe and wielding a staff yelling hit me, hit me.

Hib eldricht and alb cabalist also have area disease. but not pbae disease. and correct me if i am wrong but does not the pbaoe disease have cast-time as every other pbaoer's? alltho i agree savages are overpowered, but that is because of the buffbots that are all over the realm's. if the buffbots were not around there would be great. and the infils would not evade so much probably so that it is harder to execute the dragonfang style. and so on.

 

[midmaster]

Re: Re: Nerf what, boost what, why, and how?

Originally posted by Gewny

Thane : Mytich has obviously stated that they se Thanes more as lighting caster than melee (and to me this seems right cuz mid alredy has 3 melee classes)

Yes we do. But albs has Armsmen, Mercs, Friars and Reavers.
Thanes need more melee. It's an insult to have them on same table as rogues.

 

[Cami]

The pbae dissease is the shamans only line of defence, dont see any reason to remove it. Should we just stand there and die?

 

[pudzy]

Re: Re: Re: Nerf what, boost what, why, and how?

Originally posted by uma_thurman
Try lining up PA. Works for others

QQ

SBs had it good for 18 months. Deal with it.

My point was in infil and SBs did similar damage then SBs would win for having superior hps. Infs need the extra weaponskill to make up for less hp.

You missed my point. Try engaging your brain before posting.

50-70hp SB's got more.. we are dealing with it, give's us the right to moan.

And in the words of Pudz, stfu you elitist, prick.

 

[Aarweenie]

Originally posted by uma_thurman
QQ

SBs had it good for 18 months. Deal with it.

My point was in infil and SBs did similar damage then SBs would win for having superior hps. Infs need the extra weaponskill to make up for less hp.

You missed my point. Try engaging your brain before posting.

someone mentioned 70hp extra for SBs... haven't investigated it futher so I take it as correct...

if the infil can do twice the dmg then the SB... and the hp makes it even... it means that 70hp extra will give the SB twice as much HP...

I strongly doubt that a lvl 50 infil got 70hp...



and if you read the whole post... just not the first sentance you see that he got your point and answered to it...

try engageing your brain before answering

 

[case-rigantis]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Nerf what, boost what, why, and how?

Originally posted by pudzy
50-70hp SB's got more.. we are dealing with it, give's us the right to moan.

And in the words of Pudz, stfu you elitist, prick.

didn`t durgi self proclaim to have 2600+ hitpoints?

 

[Aarweenie]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Nerf what, boost what, why, and how?

Originally posted by case-rigantis
didn`t durgi self proclaim to have 2600+ hitpoints?

maybe... he have made at least 2 official "I've stopped playing" threads that I know of... he have claimed to stop organizing raids about 6 times I know of... just to be back not that long after... I don't belive 2600hp... I have hard getting 2000+ with my warrior ;p (no SC and low realm rank tho)

but I don't think realm rank and SC can give a SB 600 more hp then a warrior... something wrong in that case ;p

 

[gudrex]

Originally posted by uma_thurman
Err no. SBs have more hps than infs, so similar damage would mean inf < SBs. Infs need something to make up for less hps, which is why they get 2.5 and so allowing them to do a little more damage.

A 6 second stun would have to be at a far lower spec than 50 thrust if they did that. Maybe 34 as diamondback (5s stun) is 29 pierce.

But then again you guys have dex based weapons.

I think all assasinclasses would be fine if they removed the extra 0.3 speccpoints for infils.....cuz noone know why they have em

 

[nuky]

Originally posted by fyric
overpowered classes imo:

shaman: pbae disease should be removed imo, seems about the only thing tho

so really we should have no way to defend ourselves if any melee class gets attacking range?

if pbaoe disease was to be taken away, givf QC

 

[old.Jeriraa]

Originally posted by fyric
underpowered classes:

armsman: seems the damage from this class just isn't good enough

Excuse me Sir!

I got slammed by a frigging Armsman and then hit with a pole (hammer - my armor is neutral to crush) and was dead. (He hit me like 3 times with sword for a very low ammount of damage before he switched to pole.) Thats 1.4k-1.5k hitpoints go poof without being able to hit back.
When he hit me with that pole he hit for 807dmg (1090dmg before resist!). Most likely that was a crit but even then its surely not underpowered.

If you ask me: Remove stuns and mezzes all together. Debuffs of any kind are nice but just standing there unable to do anything is bad.


As for my class (Hunter): In my opinion the beastcraft line needs some spice. Its not worth spec'ing in like it is now.
1. The speed buff is too easy to break.
2. The pet is only viable if buffed. Pet buff needs to be instant.
3. The dex/quick buff is too weak. A Shaman with 21 aug can give a better buff than the one you get from 30 beastcraft. (hunter 50bc = 50dex/quick, shaman 47aug = 70dex/quick)
4. The charms are completely useless now.

With bow we perform worse with than Scouts and Rangers. Thats fine with me.
Our spear does superior damage.... if we ever hit.
1. All chain starting styles have defense penality.
2. With Evade 2 being our only defense (Scouts/Rangers get Evade 3) the only Evade chain we have consists of a lvl 4 and a lvl 8 style. The "slow" effect of this chain is hardly noticed by the target and the damage is very poor due to the low level of the styles.
3. Lancer (lvl 10) has 2 follow-ups, stab (causes a light bleed) and lunging thrust (does nothing). The follow-up to stab is also a bleed style wich doesnt stack with stab.
4. Whirling spear - that must be the worst anytimer ever. High fatigue cost (I cant kill a blue con mob using this style without running ooe.), medium damage, low to-hit, ofcourse defense penality (its silly how often you get evaded/blocked/parry) and no follow-up. This is the style every Hunter has to rely on and its poor poor poor!
5. The Perforate style got nerfed without telling anyone. It used to have a self-haste effect wich seems ok for a side-positional. Now its an attack speed debuff and totaly useless.
6. The level 50 style chains from a side!-positional (wich I personaly never ever got off in RvR). Make it chain from Whirling Spear.

 

[Cush]

Remove pbaoedisease then remove PF aswell. Since pbaoe disease is all a shaman can do 99% of the time against a good group. Minstrel stun->tanks on your ass->pf proc 1 sec late->dead even with chain healing

 

[fyric]

agreed. remove pf as well for all i'm concerned

 

[Artemls]

Originally posted by umilard
Zapsi, warriors still do higher damage than thanes, right? and have more defence.. And savages would still be great without determination, they can still /assist and stuff, only that you would now be able to stop them for more than 2 seconds

I say give them determination, but keep purge/ip at high cost.

So DET works better on a Savage? I'm sure rooted for more then 2sec
Rooted Savage can't do anything so guess that's why we have DET.

 

[Hyuga Hinata]

Originally posted by uma_thurman
QQ

SBs had it good for 18 months. Deal with it.

Infils have had it good from game launch, whats your point?
And as far as I can remember(tho I may be wrong) was that they upped LA at some point to make it viable, before this every SB was almost forced to run around with a stinkin slow 2hander.

Originally posted by uma_thurman

My point was in infil and SBs did similar damage then SBs would win for having superior hps. Infs need the extra weaponskill to make up for less hp.

Well then, would it be better to suggest that infil and SB do the same damage if they removed the 70 or so extra hp the SB gets? Or do you have objections to that aswell?

As I see it you're just trying desperately to avoid getting your class nerfed, any sane person wouldn't even mention the extra HP a SB gets vs 2.5 spec points as the HP is so trivial its gone in a single swing from the infil anyway.

Originally posted by uma_thurman

You missed my point. Try engaging your brain before posting.

I'm just gonna quote this for you.

 

[orodruin-]

Gifv wizards lots of love imo!!

Lower the resists so he can do some more dmg,give him speed,or heat debuff or stun...

 

[Litmus]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Nerf what, boost what, why, and how?

Originally posted by Aarweenie
maybe... he have made at least 2 official "I've stopped playing" threads that I know of... he have claimed to stop organizing raids about 6 times I know of... just to be back not that long after... I don't belive 2600hp... I have hard getting 2000+ with my warrior ;p (no SC and low realm rank tho)

but I don't think realm rank and SC can give a SB 600 more hp then a warrior... something wrong in that case ;p

he also has a drawf warrior, maybe that is what your thinking about?

 

[Hyuga Hinata]

Originally posted by Artemls
So DET works better on a Savage? I'm sure rooted for more then 2sec
Rooted Savage can't do anything so guess that's why we have DET.

Artemis you're such a swede :spin:

 

[uma_thurman]

Originally posted by Hyuga Hinata
Infils have had it good from game launch, whats your point?
And as far as I can remember(tho I may be wrong) was that they upped LA at some point to make it viable, before this every SB was almost forced to run around with a stinkin slow 2hander.

Not true. Afaik, infs didn't have 2.5 at launch. Needs confirming though.

Originally posted by Hyuga Hinata
Well then, would it be better to suggest that infil and SB do the same damage if they removed the 70 or so extra hp the SB gets? Or do you have objections to that aswell?

Actually I don't want SBs to have their extra hp removed.

Originally posted by Hyuga Hinata
As I see it you're just trying desperately to avoid getting your class nerfed, any sane person wouldn't even mention the extra HP a SB gets vs 2.5 spec points as the HP is so trivial its gone in a single swing from the infil anyway.

Actually a sane person would read in the same thread that I propose ideas for SB loving. Ofc I can see the extra hps are not enough. SBs used to be overpowered courtesy of LA and now that LA has been brought into line I am all for giving SBs a little extra to compete (eg vanish, dex/qui debuffing poisons etc).

I don't like classes being nerfed into oblivion, but I hate overpowered classes too. Just be thankful I'm open-minded enough to suggest some mid-loving.

 

[uma_thurman]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Nerf what, boost what, why, and how?

Originally posted by pudzy
50-70hp SB's got more.. we are dealing with it, give's us the right to moan.

And in the words of Pudz, stfu you elitist, prick.

No you always moan anyway because you're a whining prick. You'd whine still if you won the lottery or ever get laid

Elitist my arse Don't see how I qualify for that remark.

You should stfu and play your SB properly instead of the whines. If you don't have the skill to make RPs with your SB now as many others like Szakal etc can then it's not the class at fault, it's you.

My BW experience is going to get a whole lot better now as you join illustrious company in my ban list. I lose nothing as you never have anything worthwhile to say

 

[klavrynd]

you make me smile, cross me again and ill report your silly name


(muhaha)

 

[uma_thurman]

erm...yeah...right...whatever...

I liked your SB cleaning idea Klav.

 

[chiefbootknocka]

Projects to hot

 

[faderullan]

You stealthers should have your own forums. Nothing is more boring then to hear sb vs infil discussions

 

[zapzap]

Only problem is alb can make decent FG stealther party, that can kill any random group.

Zapsi

 

[Lochlyessa]

zap smells btw

 

[NeonBlue]

am not going to enter the infl vsb debate here if possible..but here are my views after getting my infil to 50 2weeks ago.

for the last couple of weeks ive been in emain trying to get up my realm rank..as everyone knows a stealther doesnt really come into its own untill about rr5.

i see/hear ppl whinging how badly done to SBs are...well from emain/df experience i would say this is not the case..in the last 2 weeks i think ive lost more 1v1 fights than ive actually won.

This could be down to me still learning my class (RvR wise) or it could be down to realm rank.

But i know 1 thing every SB ive met put up a damn good fight..and i have to concentrate and get my timings right to even stand a chance of survival.

Ive put all my money into my infil so therefore he is full Sc'ed etc and yes i do buff him..with my lvl 45 cleric ...but this is not a buffbot in my view..as my cleric is a character i actually play and will eventually get to 50 and is specced to give good buffs and have fairly good healing too for PvE groups (40 enhance 24 rejuv)

But i know without the buffs , 50% of the fights ive won...i would of lost, due to SBs out dmging me (whether this is down to realm rank or realm abilities or just better playing i dont know)

Basically i think SBs as they are now are fairly balanced and stand as good chance as any other infil/ns of winning a fight..if the person behind the SB takes time out to learn/play their class to the best of their ability,

only deciding factors ive found in a 1vs1 fight are:-
1) Realm Rank
2) Who gets the jump 1st
3) Timing of styles

But as i said am fairly new to the RvR scene with a lvl50 stealther...though i did have a lvl42 kobbie cirtblade on excal some months ago but he was deleted.

But thats what ive learnt in my last 2 weeks

 

[pudzy]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Nerf what, boost what, why, and how?

Originally posted by uma_thurman
No you always moan anyway because you're a whining prick. You'd whine still if you won the lottery or ever get laid

Elitist my arse Don't see how I qualify for that remark.

You should stfu and play your SB properly instead of the whines. If you don't have the skill to make RPs with your SB now as many others like Szakal etc can then it's not the class at fault, it's you.

My BW experience is going to get a whole lot better now as you join illustrious company in my ban list. I lose nothing as you never have anything worthwhile to say

Szakal plays in a group, and mostly buffed..

As for me being a whiner... How you think people know who I am on these forums? Cos I do it and I admit it.

As for me getting laid - are you about 12? cos thats when I last used that insult. Most people whine when they're getting laid... prolly not you ... your day will come.

Yes I would whine if I won the lottery but I'd be fucking rich!

Playing my sb properly - I got to rr5 before I started using buff's on my blade, I musta been doing something right.

Makes me laugh how pathetic ure replies are I mean theres this

Originally posted by uma_thurman

Actually a sane person would read in the same thread that I propose ideas for SB loving. Ofc I can see the extra hps are not enough

then...

You should stfu and play your SB properly instead of the whines. If you don't have the skill to make RPs with your SB now as many others like Szakal etc can then it's not the class at fault, it's you.

So.... ure saying our class needs love now but also that I'm not playing it properly because "it's not the class at fault, it's me" ...

K.

 

[Cami]

Originally posted by NeonBlue
only deciding factors ive found in a 1vs1 fight are:-
1) Realm Rank
2) Who gets the jump 1st
3) Timing of styles

add "better buffs" to that list...