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rure
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- #121
well said
well said
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Driwen
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- #122
I know that 80% of the necro's around wont stop using their class to the fullest. I think what they do is lame and as it is, I wont play in RvR or atleast versus the albs. Because I know I will get frustrated and wont have fun and crafting and in mean time doing some reading is way more fun than being killed by a person you cant hit back, unless you get really organised 
. It is their right to use their pet without the LOS and by doing that they should know that they do drive away alot of people away from RvR for a few weeks.
. It is their right to use their pet without the LOS and by doing that they should know that they do drive away alot of people away from RvR for a few weeks.
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Belomar
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- #123
Ooh, the chanter wakes up. Just run and hide, please, you have no place trying to defend this feature of your own overpowered class. No other caster can debuff it's own damage type to this extent. Show me the wizard (fire or ice) that can hit someone for 700-800 a pop, and Albion would be a much more powerful realm in RvR. 3-shot that Hero over there? Sure, no problem, he won't even have time to reach for his moose + IP button.
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rure
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- #124
You forgot to mention the base-line stun
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Sharp Thing
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- #125
you know, alb has these debuffs to you know, LEARN TO USE THEM
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old.Nol
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- #126
Baseline stun has been pretty much useless since the advent of SC and det RA's. If you have a friend on hib with a chanter, or any mage for that matter, ask them to let you have a go and see how overpowered the baseline stun is.Originally posted by rure
You forgot to mention the base-line stun
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Sharp Thing
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- #127
http://forums.barrysworld.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=55296 my uber stun that lasts for 3seconds, wow!!!!!!!Originally posted by rure
You forgot to mention the base-line stun
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Tigerius
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- #128
Chanter PBAoE line is obviously the daddy of them all. Fast PBAoE, a debuff that allows you to increase stun duration, boost pet damage and increase your ranged capacity to that of beyond an ordinary specced nuker but only for a very short burntime. Pet dmg shield that while utterly useless in RvR is a total granddaddy utility tool in PvE. Fairly normal resist table, not excessively many attacks going on it but chanter PBAoE is the main reason itself that people do cap it. Baseline stun and pet for assorted purposes completes it. Bit low utility but unmatched in shortterm damage.
Spiritmaster PBAoE is probably not so close second, lacks strongly in the ranged attack department but has the best resist table PBAoE (yes Spirit is a common racial resist but it's a commonly neglied resist due to the few spirit attacks around these days), slightly stronger PBAoE and some nice utility avaliable in both main and secondary line. AE Str/Con insta debuff couples very well with PBAoE naturally and being able to backup CC/cure CC gives them more purpose in ranged conflicts. Lifetransfers will actually be quite powerful once they get their loving next patch. Some more utility in the pet too ofc.
Wizard PBAoE is tieing Eld for worst, the slow speed of the PBAoE being the primary factor and to back this up is only a few low DDs with nice side effects but again horribly long casttime making baseline DD more viable for fast damage. The low resist debuffs do a poor job at making up for a poor resist table which everyone has capped with or without SC and has some racial resists in it's disadvantage too. The debuffs are of the low effect that it's hard to find the right situation where stopping to cast a slow DD before PBAoE will actually have be beneficial, in theory the AoE version could work good for this purpose but we all know exactly how much use AoE normally is. No good baseline spells in other lines, low GTAoE as only secondary spec.
Spiritmaster PBAoE is probably not so close second, lacks strongly in the ranged attack department but has the best resist table PBAoE (yes Spirit is a common racial resist but it's a commonly neglied resist due to the few spirit attacks around these days), slightly stronger PBAoE and some nice utility avaliable in both main and secondary line. AE Str/Con insta debuff couples very well with PBAoE naturally and being able to backup CC/cure CC gives them more purpose in ranged conflicts. Lifetransfers will actually be quite powerful once they get their loving next patch. Some more utility in the pet too ofc.
Wizard PBAoE is tieing Eld for worst, the slow speed of the PBAoE being the primary factor and to back this up is only a few low DDs with nice side effects but again horribly long casttime making baseline DD more viable for fast damage. The low resist debuffs do a poor job at making up for a poor resist table which everyone has capped with or without SC and has some racial resists in it's disadvantage too. The debuffs are of the low effect that it's hard to find the right situation where stopping to cast a slow DD before PBAoE will actually have be beneficial, in theory the AoE version could work good for this purpose but we all know exactly how much use AoE normally is. No good baseline spells in other lines, low GTAoE as only secondary spec.
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Garnet
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- #129
you would be if you was shot through the wall =)
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Tigerius
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- #130
As for Albs having resist debuffs, this is true, however:
1 set of debuffs are placed in our pet class pet line, you know the line that is equally useless in all 3 realms and that barely warrant secondary spec and never ever primary.
The other set of debuffs is placed in our main CC's nuking line, you know the line that noone wants you to spec because it's been nerfed and it's the mezz line which everyone wants you for is getting beefed. It's not impossible to work out a dual spec getting some of each, but with Sorc love next patch that's still suffering quite alot, and if so then you're faced with the dilemma that most main CC classes are. Too many spells of "some" use and some spells of "too important to neglect" use. You absolutely MUST go in and cast that CC and once that task is done you should be so lucky as to even stay alive when the purged tanks come for you, if you do get a second spell of it should be the one trying to root said tanks. Doing a single resist debuff of someone elses damage type could in theory be viable say 30secs into battle if you survived and nothing else needs CCing, mezz curing, amnesia, and if the buddy you will debuff for survived too. But since this isn't the most common scenario you really do have to excuse Albs for not having this form of assist routine properly worked out when it does happen.
1 set of debuffs are placed in our pet class pet line, you know the line that is equally useless in all 3 realms and that barely warrant secondary spec and never ever primary.
The other set of debuffs is placed in our main CC's nuking line, you know the line that noone wants you to spec because it's been nerfed and it's the mezz line which everyone wants you for is getting beefed. It's not impossible to work out a dual spec getting some of each, but with Sorc love next patch that's still suffering quite alot, and if so then you're faced with the dilemma that most main CC classes are. Too many spells of "some" use and some spells of "too important to neglect" use. You absolutely MUST go in and cast that CC and once that task is done you should be so lucky as to even stay alive when the purged tanks come for you, if you do get a second spell of it should be the one trying to root said tanks. Doing a single resist debuff of someone elses damage type could in theory be viable say 30secs into battle if you survived and nothing else needs CCing, mezz curing, amnesia, and if the buddy you will debuff for survived too. But since this isn't the most common scenario you really do have to excuse Albs for not having this form of assist routine properly worked out when it does happen.
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Sharp Thing
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- #131
most sorcs are body :> wich gives debuffs for ehat (allot of fire wizzies) and cold (ice wizzies and theurs if ice)
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Tigerius
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- #132
Correction: Most Sorcs are dual spec Mind/Body as this used to be the most viable before Body nerf/Mind love and what you said still changes none of the above. They may spec Body for root/nuke to feel more then a one-trick-pony and be able to chip in with some dmg dealing and secondary CC, but that doesn't make them nukers, they are still our primary CC class and if you think that they would be better resist debuffing then CCing just because of some Body spec then no comment.
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Qte Eth
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- #133
"body nerf"
giv?
and dont say a classs with 209 spec dd isnt nuker O_O
giv?
and dont say a classs with 209 spec dd isnt nuker O_O
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Lessurl
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- #134
Actually no i wouldn't, have been shot through the wall by archers many times and never come to complain about it or bite someones head off.
Especially not someone who made a perfectly valid point and didn't even play the class that i was pissed off with. (i am assuming this by a lack of a necro on Kirennia's sig, may be wrong )
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Belomar
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- #135
Not on the same class, get it into your head! /assist is so much harder to use than being able to debuff a target for yourself. Move the resistance debuffs to the Enhancements specline, please.
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noaim
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- #136
Yeah so every chanter in the game has to ruin their spec if they want debuffs.
I dont see you whining over that alb elementalists have 10dps damage add in their baseline?
I dont see you whining over that alb elementalists have 10dps damage add in their baseline?
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hiban
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- #137
Yeah, please do. Then all will whine at BOTH the "uber" pets of chanters AND their ability to resistance debuff their own baseline nukes. It will never stop. Whatever any class has got/gets, there will be people whining at it. Alb casters get the best dmg add in game in their base line. (Chanters have to gimp themselves by specing enchantment to get that one. Runemasters have to spec to get the best one in mid, and its only 7.9 while hib/alb one is 10) Meaning a theurg can spec what they want and still have that dmg add. Pets that chain stun, ae-mezz and a powerfull dd. what about their attack speed buff? it sucks i guess? or nuking pets and ae root (That gives improved base line nukes as well since its ice? i dunno?) Both ae root and ae mezz is quick castable? Look at wizzies spec lines, they suck as well i guess?
As the man said: LEARN TO USE YOUR CLASSES! if u dont like the realm and the classes in it: Leave. Quit the game or move to another realm. I have lots of friends in mid/excal. that didnt stop me from playing hib/pryd and lvl my warden to 50. I had loads of fun doing it and dont regret it a second. I wouldnt force myself to play a game where i didnt feel happy about myself and my chars. but ofc, its your life and your own time spent. I for one still play for the fun of it, and not for the rps and effectiveness of my char in RvR only.
Btw, im not in any way saying that the realms are balanced. Tbvh doubt it was meant to design the came, so u could compare the classes with eachother, one by one.
Cheers
As the man said: LEARN TO USE YOUR CLASSES! if u dont like the realm and the classes in it: Leave. Quit the game or move to another realm. I have lots of friends in mid/excal. that didnt stop me from playing hib/pryd and lvl my warden to 50. I had loads of fun doing it and dont regret it a second. I wouldnt force myself to play a game where i didnt feel happy about myself and my chars. but ofc, its your life and your own time spent. I for one still play for the fun of it, and not for the rps and effectiveness of my char in RvR only.
Btw, im not in any way saying that the realms are balanced. Tbvh doubt it was meant to design the came, so u could compare the classes with eachother, one by one.
Cheers
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brommix
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- #138
that should sort it.-......if you dont like it leave it, would be a fun game wouldnt it then...honestly thats an ignorant remark to make. And dosnt solve any issues regarding classes, its in all 3 realms interests that there are some balance between them, I wont comment on these caster discussions i feel there has been enough views posted, but to say that you can solve it by moving realm is not a viable option imo, everytime someone feels some of their classes are not performing you want them to move to another realm?? honestly you must be able to see that people will not abandon a char they levelled to 50 just like that. But maybe you are one of those persons who are first to leave a sinking ship . If you were on a sports team football basketball etc im quite sure your coach would fire you straight out for the defaitist and negative impact you have on your team.
. If you were on a sports team football basketball etc im quite sure your coach would fire you straight out for the defaitist and negative impact you have on your team.
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Belomar
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- #139
It's only fair, all other realms have to do it. In Albion, for instance, the only class that can debuff its own nukes is Cabalists, and the debuff is in, yes, you guessed it, the Spirit line (i.e. just pet buffs and zero direct offensive potential, the equivalence of the chanter Enhancements line).
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hiban
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- #140
Yeah, but u are one of those that play up a char to lvl 50 without noticing that it wont perform as good as u want it too, and then put all your time and effort in whining about how good everyone elses classes are? Discussing with albs wont do any good. Only takes up time that u can use on other stuff. Like sorting cerals or go out looking for pink cars. Its like talking to a wall ffs. They are all set in one mode: All alb chars are gimped and midgard/hib chars are ALL very overpowered. Can u honestly say that u think its fun to sit and whine at your chars and how gimped they are, every fucking day?
This thread started with mids getting pissed at necros placing their pets on one side of the wall and nuking the ppl on the other side, without being able to do SHIT about getting killed by that. If mids used that against albs, we would prolly see twice as many posts about it. We have all seen the albs whine at the also bugged chanter pets? So why shouldnt mids whine on necros using the same bug?
Over and fucking out of this thread. Now im going in to play my gimped and indeed underpowered ALBION chars on prydwen. See ya
This thread started with mids getting pissed at necros placing their pets on one side of the wall and nuking the ppl on the other side, without being able to do SHIT about getting killed by that. If mids used that against albs, we would prolly see twice as many posts about it. We have all seen the albs whine at the also bugged chanter pets? So why shouldnt mids whine on necros using the same bug?
Over and fucking out of this thread. Now im going in to play my gimped and indeed underpowered ALBION chars on prydwen. See ya
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Lessurl
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- #141
I don't think that it's the best idea. You may tell me it's because i'm a hib, but i don't play a chanter so am hoping i can keep my view as fair as possible.
The reason i don't think it's a good idea is as it would break down a bit of realm diversity. I agree that mana chanters are arguably the best mage in the game at the moment (atleast in a damage dealing sense, they lack a bit of utility) and that perhaps something should be looked at to fix it however making it the same as another realm shouldn't be the way it's done. If you start off saying..well our pet class has debuffs in the pet line then so should theirs..you could see heroes saying well armsman get plate armour..why shouldn't I?
(i hope you can see where i'm going with this as it's early and my brain is refusing to give me a good way of explaining what i mean
)
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Puppetmistress
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- #142
Sure, let's just group with a SPIRIT cabalist. A very gimped line atm on a class which isn't played very often.
You got debuff for your nuke in your PBAoE-line, I need to find another player specced in a very gimped-line (meaning he can't have real good fun on itself).
Sure that's fair. Put heat-debuff in some really gimped line on a non-popular class and se how the situation is for an air-theurg.
Really mate, get a clue. that heat-debuff needs to move out of the mana-line.
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Puppetmistress
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- #143
After a heat-debuff I am sure it's up to 8 seconds on my theurg. Which all chanters have, since all chanters are mana (90%).
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dakeyras
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- #144
Says the expert in Albion Chars
Wot you got? a lvl 12 and a 13
LOL
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hiban
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- #145
Where does it say i havent had higher chars in albion/excal before i rolled to midgard? I started there again in less than a week ago or so with my 2nd acc.
My last post in this thread. But please keep the great whines coming
cheers
My last post in this thread. But please keep the great whines coming
cheers
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noaim
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- #146
Well look at it this way.
An Ice Wizzie can nuke for 179.5 damage, with snare on that nuke. That is the speclined nuke, so its damage wont variate.
They can also before that debuff the target with another nuke.
What can chanter do. They can stun, debuff, and then nuke a baseline nuke, in which line most dont spec, at least not high enough for the damage to stick to max. Also, you got no snare on this nuke (but a pet with snarenuke, however, that has nothing to do with the mana-line itself, and thats what we are discussing.
Conclusion: Ice Wizzies can debuffnuke, then snarenuke their target, mana chanters can debuff the baselinenuke theirs.
I cant say which is better, but I would go for ice wizzie myself, less risk of the tank reaching you imo.
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rure
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- #147
Ok, if you think it is crap I blame my body resist.
But are you still willing to trade your baseline stun for a root?
I know how crap stun can be, mine is far worse than yours (although mine is instant). 6 second stun... lasts about 2 secs.
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Pin
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- #148
Except that the ice nuke is a 10% debuff vs a 50% chanter debuff.
While it's true that if you only go to 24 spec for the nukes your damage will vary, but a 50% debuff will negate that in almost all cases.
Then (as you said) you've just stunned the target, so short of purge he can't do FA to stop you nuking him to crap, but an ice wiz will have only snared the target, so he's still coming at you with taunt shouts or whatever to stop the nukes.
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old.Nol
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- #149
I am pretty sure most hib mages would swap stun for root in a second...stun is worth nothing.
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Amadon
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- #150
YES PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
GIVE ME SOMETHING USEFUL AGAINST TANKS!!!!!!!!!!
aye.. 9 sec lasts 3 seconds, which is .5 seconds longer than it takes to cast.. insta stun would at least give you 1 more cast