Murdered Baby?

[nath]

Chill out Throd, Christ.

If I really think about the rape/murder it makes me insane with rage, I'd really take my time on the guy. Thing is, lots of people don't think laws should be based around emotional responses.

Wij - clearly there's not much point in carrying on, at least there's no point discussing it with you if you have you head so far up your arse that you can't accept alternative points of views. As is so often the case with you.

 

[throdgrain]

Lots of people do as well though my friend. The idea of some kind of vengence is an accepted fact throughout the ages until we have tried too hard to sanitise ourselves.
I also truly believe that such a person has forfieted all rights and should be removed permanently.

Pardon the spelling mistakes, I just got in from work im bloody tired

 

[nath]

I have no problem with you having a different opinion - I have a problem when people present it as the only sensible option and attack the other side for their opinions rather than actually explaining their side. Something that seems to be fairly common on this board (and I expect most message boards on the net).

 

[Trem]

But in theory, once youve taken his life, yours would have to be taken too? Otherwise there is no system in place... and the world wouldnt work.

So be it in my case.

 

[throdgrain]

Thats not really the issue though. The thread is about the most unspeakable crime imaginable. Not really much of a thread really, should just be some people saying oh my god in a variety of ways.
What then amazes me is when you then get some idiot saying something to the effect of I dunno why you're more bothered about a baby than anything else.
Even if such a comment has a place anywhere, and it probably does, its doesnt really have a place on a thread such as this. It is obviously just asking to be told to shut the fuck up.
Then you get some other people arguing for no reason, and you end up here.
Hooray for the internet.

Is it great, or is it just a load of over-rated bollocks?

I suspect my opinion is forming

 

[nath]

Well that's a fair point - but regardless of any of that, we've ended up at a point where we're discussing what we're discussing.

 

[TdC]

Wij - clearly there's not much point in carrying on, at least there's no point discussing it with you if you have you head so far up your arse that you can't accept alternative points of views. As is so often the case with you.

You can certainly get Wij to admit that you are (or aren't) right/correct/have the better argument, but you're going to have to work hard on your arguments to get him to change his mind. Wij can argue both why the rapist should be treated humanely and why he shouldn't, and his agreeing or disagreeing with said perspective due to the outcome of his analysis doesn't necessarily have to coincide with his true feelings on subject. Or yours for that matter.

Getting hot under the collar will not help anyone's arguments in this thread, so everyone please chill out a little eh.

unfortunately, saying 'oh, please stop it' wont effect the FH people

you'd be surprised mate.

 

[nath]

I think you misunderstand teedles - I'm not getting wound up because he disagrees (infact I'm not getting wound up at all) I just think it's pointless having a discussion with someone who believes different opinions are completely invalid.

 

[Wij]

I think you misunderstand teedles - I'm not getting wound up because he disagrees (infact I'm not getting wound up at all) I just think it's pointless having a discussion with someone who believes different opinions are completely invalid.

Yes - because I said that quite plainly.

 

[psyco]

What then amazes me is when you then get some idiot saying something to the effect of I dunno why you're more bothered about a baby than anything else.

i assume, i am this 'idiot' - but still i dont understand the hate for this man/woman is so strong

you'd be surprised mate.

yeh, its not fare though... your a mod

 

[Dukat]

i assume, i am this 'idiot' - but still i dont understand the hate for this man/woman is so strong

I dont understand how you dont understand.

The person has raped and then killed a 2 yr old child. A defenseless baby.

How can you not understand? Do you really need it explained anymore than this? For me even typing the words above make me feel slightly sickened, the process of thought behind an act like that is something I dont understand and tbh, I hope I never do. Justice should perhaps be impartial, but seeing as I am not the living embodyment of justice, I am prejudice - in my mind, people who do things like this should be treated without mercy.

 

[nath]

Yes - because I said that quite plainly.

Well, I got the impression that's what you felt in this case. If I'm wrong I'll happily retract the statement.

 

[Wij]

Well, I got the impression that's what you felt in this case. If I'm wrong I'll happily retract the statement.

My point was that a desire for vengence isn't something you can be educated out of. It's a natural human instinct.

 

[throdgrain]

i assume, i am this 'idiot' - but still i dont understand the hate for this man/woman is so strong

Didnt want to say this, but Ive had a few now, and I always maintain that what you say on the net should be just the same as what you say face to face.
So Id just like to say, I think you're a cu nt.

Hopefully that will make the message loud and clear.

 

[DaGaffer]

That is where we differ, i don't believe in "evil" i think it's a cop out created because we don't like to think that we all the the capacity to be one of the "monsters" after all we're all essentially biologically almost the same but for a few milipercentages of genes and our upbringing. It's those differences we need to understand.

Also Evil as a concept is a relative one, in terms of political evils, as has often been written, it's the winning side which writes the history.

You´re absolutely correct that "evil" is a social construct, but so what? Degrees of evil are defined by the social mores of the time, and right here, right now, in western societies murdering babies is labelled "evil", and is of course one of the worst social taboos we have. It doesn´t matter if this creature has a dodgy Y chromosome or if he had a rough childhood; he doesn´t need to be understood, he needs to be removed from society. Personally I don´t believe in the death penalty, but I do believe life imprisonment should mean just that; no weasly ´minimum term´or parole for good behaviour or any of that shit, and I´d have no problem with leaving him amongst the general prison population either (although I recognise that´s my own personal view and I´m actually wrong; prison should always have a safety net in case of miscarriages of justice; after all British Justice has been known to fuck up rather often).

 

[psyco]

I dont understand how you dont understand.

The person has raped and then killed a 2 yr old child. A defenseless baby.

How can you not understand? Do you really need it explained anymore than this? For me even typing the words above make me feel slightly sickened, the process of thought behind an act like that is something I dont understand and tbh, I hope I never do. Justice should perhaps be impartial, but seeing as I am not the living embodyment of justice, I am prejudice - in my mind, people who do things like this should be treated without mercy.

i understand that its an awful action, but i don't understand the majority of replys, saying that you would pay to see this man be killed, in the most inhumane way possible... or words to that effect, that seems equally sickening

justice doesn't enter my mind, infact the justice system doesn't work... so now imagine people the lynch mob after this guy/guyette... that also is a rather sickening prospect

i cant understand why this seems to be going unpunished, sure the guy shouldn't have done it... but he has, we have to act responsibly... remembering ofc that we cant reverse his actions

so now, imo we let the child rest in peace and let those involved, victims relatives and the offender, to get over it in there own way

i would be lying if i wanted to see this man die at the hands of justice, it just seems uncivil

maybe im devoid of emotion, i dont know... it just seems like your over reacting

So Id just like to say, I think you're a cu nt.

likewise

 

[nath]

My point was that a desire for vengence isn't something you can be educated out of. It's a natural human instinct.

I absolutely agree - people can however look past their own desire for vengeance to see a bigger picture, if there is indeed one to see.

 

[Mofo8]

For some reason I get more annoyed and vengeful feeling about cruelty to animals. There was a story in the local paper I work for about some arseholes who'd moved out of their council flat leaving a very young kitten locked in a room. It was discovered 6 weeks later by workmen. It had managed to stay alive by licking condensation off the window. It lasted a couple of days at an animal rescue centre. I reckon the council should publish the names of the former owners of the flat.

Similary, with this baby thing. I'm sure they'll get what they deserve at some point, most probably in prison.

 

[phazey]

I think offenders of such crimes should be removed from society totally. Perhaps to an island in the middle of nowhere - totally unescapable. There, they can live in peace with other like minded offenders and perhaps one day regret their actions.


























.....and then once a year we nuke the fuckers to make way for more of these vile excuses of human beings.

 

[Calaen]

i cant understand why this seems to be going unpunished, sure the guy shouldn't have done it... but he has, we have to act responsibly... remembering ofc that we cant reverse his actions

so now, imo we let the child rest in peace and let those involved, victims relatives and the offender, to get over it in there own way

i would be lying if i wanted to see this man die at the hands of justice, it just seems uncivil

maybe im devoid of emotion, i dont know... it just seems like your over reacting

The offender does not deserve to be left to get over it. What a stupid thing to say.

 

[tris-]

i assume, i am this 'idiot' - but still i dont understand the hate for this man/woman is so strong

you did read what crime he committed, didnt you?

seems to me you think raping and murdering a child is the same as it happening to an adult, is that right?

lets say this guy is going to do this to someone, no matter what. who do you think the more acceptable victim is?

 

[NikonL]

It's not hard to see why this guy is hated, what he did is quite blatently wrong. And he deserves to be punished.

What irritates me is a bunch of computer nerds and geeks (no offence you guys, and i count myself as a geek etc too really) Sitting around and discussing what you would do to this person, and thinking up the most grusome etc ways for him to die. And then somehow you think you're better than him? Get real. If you want to use these "descriptions" as a vent for all the anger and hate, fine, post away. But for decencys sake don't pretend you mean what you're saying, and that you would genuinely want to go through with it if you had the chance.

 

[tris-]

i think you will find the people who say what they may do, would probably do it.

not everyone is 14 yrs old like in other parts of the forum.

 

[NikonL]

i think you will find the people who say what they may do, would probably do it.

not everyone is 14 yrs old like in other parts of the forum.

Cmon tris- thats bullshit. You don't have be 14 to do something like this. I'm not suggesting the people on this forum are saying it to big themselves up, like "Oh if i say I'd kill this guy, it makes me hard" sort of way. Probably the people here to beleive themselves when they say it, im just asking them to stop being stupid, and to step out into the real world for a moment where there isnt a PC screen to hide behind, with anonymity etc, and ask themselves if they could honestly stare into a news camera for example, with the world watching, and repeat all the sick and twisted things theyve planned for this guy.

For example tris-, I'd bet you'd like to think you could stand up to torture for even 5 minutes or something right? But I'd bet money that as soon as the interrogator started up the drill, with the wide drill bit that he was about to force down your Jap's eye, you'd scream, cry, wet yourself and then agree to do anything he wanted.

My point is: It's very easy to say things, things that even you beleive to be true. It's much, much harder to do them.

 

[Calaen]

It's not hard to see why this guy is hated, what he did is quite blatently wrong. And he deserves to be punished.

What irritates me is a bunch of computer nerds and geeks (no offence you guys, and i count myself as a geek etc too really) Sitting around and discussing what you would do to this person, and thinking up the most grusome etc ways for him to die. And then somehow you think you're better than him? Get real. If you want to use these "descriptions" as a vent for all the anger and hate, fine, post away. But for decencys sake don't pretend you mean what you're saying, and that you would genuinely want to go through with it if you had the chance.

I really do want this man put to death and in a public place as well, to send a big fuck off strong message to anyone else out there who thinks they can get away with whatever they want without real punishment being served.

You would only need to kill a few before people stopped committing mindless acts of violence and abuse to people that cannot stop them.

And just because I want him dead does not make me like him, to even say that people that want him dead are no better than him is bloody stupid, he raped and murdered a fucking two year old.

How can me wanting him dead take me to his level?

 

[yaruar]

I really do want this man put to death and in a public place as well, to send a big fuck off strong message to anyone else out there who thinks they can get away with whatever they want without real punishment being served.

You would only need to kill a few before people stopped committing mindless acts of violence and abuse to people that cannot stop them.

And just because I want him dead does not make me like him, to even say that people that want him dead are no better than him is bloody stupid, he raped and murdered a fucking two year old.

How can me wanting him dead take me to his level?

Capital punishment does not work as a deterant for crime, especially crimes of this nature. There are many reasons it can be done, but stopping future crimials isn't one of them. + by killing soeone you lose the opportunity to study them to potentially stop future crimes by others. Which si why people like this need to be treated with cool heads and kept away from vigilanties, no matter how justified they feel.

 

[NikonL]

How can me wanting him dead take me to his level?

Because where does it end? I mean honestly, I find ghandi to just be a stuck up hippie really, but "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" is still pretty much true.

You've got to be better than someone before you can condemn them to something like death. And you thinking that a public execution will wipe the slate clean and make everything alright is pure fantasy bullshit that deep down I don't event think you beleive.

The reason you're arguing with me I feel, is that you think I'm suggesting that what this guy did, wasn't bad? or that i think he should be set free or something? Which is utterly crazy, I think he should be given the harshest sentance available, and I beleive he brought his punishment on himself and should serve it. But I don't beleive a jumped up forumite like you (or me) with a false sense of security, has the right to sentence him to death.

 

[JBP|]

I think offenders of such crimes should be removed from society totally. Perhaps to an island in the middle of nowhere - totally unescapable. There, they can live in peace with other like minded offenders and perhaps one day regret their actions.

Didn't we used to do that?

As i recall its called Austrailia.

 

[Calaen]

Because where does it end? I mean honestly, I find ghandi to just be a stuck up hippie really, but "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" is still pretty much true.

You've got to be better than someone before you can condemn them to something like death. And you thinking that a public execution will wipe the slate clean and make everything alright is pure fantasy bullshit that deep down I don't event think you beleive.

The reason you're arguing with me I feel, is that you think I'm suggesting that what this guy did, wasn't bad? or that i think he should be set free or something? Which is utterly crazy, I think he should be given the harshest sentance available, and I beleive he brought his punishment on himself and should serve it. But I don't beleive a jumped up forumite like you (or me) with a false sense of security, has the right to sentence him to death.

I do not believe it is fantasy currently in this country the streets are ruled by teenageers with serious attitude problems, they do not care who they hurt because the consequences of them doing something wrong is more like a win on the lottery.

I honestly believe by taking a few of these scum bags and bagging them up it will make others from the same category think twice.

Unfortunately every person that commits crime is not the same, I have no doubt some people could be studied to try and understand why they did it, but tbh some people are just fucked up.

You can study them all you want but unless they have 24 hour protection/guard there is no way they can be set free upon society.


To Yaruar,

I do not know if you recall the video that was floating around before christmas where the two lads are standing waiting to be picked up late at night outside a shopping centre. 3 lads walk by and 2 of them jump the other two guys from behind killing one with a knife before leaving the scene.

Nothing can be taking from people like that because they are just evil bastards. There was no justification for what they did so you cannot begin to try and understand why they did it.

It would be a waste of money trying to learn from them when the simple answer is he did not give a shit about the guy when he knifed him.

 

[yaruar]

To Yaruar,

I do not know if you recall the video that was floating around before christmas where the two lads are standing waiting to be picked up late at night outside a shopping centre. 3 lads walk by and 2 of them jump the other two guys from behind killing one with a knife before leaving the scene.

Nothing can be taking from people like that because they are just evil bastards. There was no justification for what they did so you cannot begin to try and understand why they did it.

It would be a waste of money trying to learn from them when the simple answer is he did not give a shit about the guy when he knifed him.

There is always a reason why people do these things. It might not be soemthign immediate, it might have a lot to do with their background, their upbringing, their faulty genes, the drugs they take, etc, etc, but i firmly believe we are all products of our backgrounds and personal situations.

I think it was Dennis Nielsen who, when asked at his sentencing by the judge presiding "Why did you commit these murders?" said something like "I was hoping you would be able to tell me that."