Murdered Baby?

[Louster]

To even bring it up as a point of view would mark you out as being either a)fucking simple, or b) someone who's never been out of thier bedroom and is fairly unlikely to ever procreate, and therefore is also unlikely to fully understand the feelings of anger, grief and a desire for vengence that would be brought out in any parent or reasoned adult.

Nope. And to even say this marks you, again, as someone for whom "thinking is bad omg". Everything about life, and us, requires explanation - you can't just 'magic it away' because it's 'so natural and oh god you just don't understand' because that's the sort of unthinking bullshit that gets you nowhere, and has absolutely no explanatory or logical merit. It's people like you that, completely inexplicably, distrust 'experts' as they, you know, think and know too much about stuff. Which is bad. Somehow.

I've already explained why grief is, at first glance, completely detrimental at an evolutionary level, and hence its existence literally begs explanation - if it did not have any advantages, and given its obvious disadvantages, it would have been selected out of us a long, long time ago. Tilda's response is basically the theory that I mentioned, only with 'miss' instead of a more general 'grief response', which I think is possibly a little misleading. But I have a sneaking suspicion that repeating this point over and over won't make any dents in your arrogance at all. Call it a hunch.

 

[Calaen]

Nope. And to even say this marks you, again, as someone for whom "thinking is bad omg". Everything about life, and us, requires explanation - you can't just 'magic it away' because it's 'so natural and oh god you just don't understand' because that's the sort of unthinking bullshit that gets you nowhere, and has absolutely no explanatory or logical merit. It's people like you that, completely inexplicably, distrust 'experts' as they, you know, think and know too much about stuff. Which is bad. Somehow.

I've already explained why grief is, at first glance, completely detrimental at an evolutionary level, and hence its existence literally begs explanation - if it did not have any advantages, and given its obvious disadvantages, it would have been selected out of us a long, long time ago. Tilda's response is basically the theory that I mentioned, only with 'miss' instead of a more general 'grief response', which I think is possibly a little misleading. But I have a sneaking suspicion that repeating this point over and over won't make any dents in your arrogance at all. Call it a hunch.

How would you deal with the offender Louster?

 

[Louster]

How would you deal with the offender Louster?

Actually that's a completely different part of the issue and something I haven't even gone near. I'm pretty much arguing a different topic altogether all on my own for no reason. You got me.

 

[yaruar]

Oh but "justice" and "vengence" are two different things arnt they, our wooly jumpered friends will tell us.

Justice should always be neutral, whereas vengence is very much a forced, emotional thing.
Vengence, imo, is one of the worst human traits, it's the reason why blood fueds can kill hundreds of thousands and if carried out by all parties is cyclical.

Justice should never be tempered by thoughts of vengence.

 

[Calaen]

Justice should always be neutral, whereas vengence is very much a forced, emotional thing.
Vengence, imo, is one of the worst human traits, it's the reason why blood fueds can kill hundreds of thousands and if carried out by all parties is cyclical.

Justice should never be tempered by thoughts of vengence.

How would you deal with the offender?

 

[psyco]

For Psyco et al to have an "objective" viewpoint on the subject clearly indicates thier lack of comprehension to be honest.

To even bring it up as a point of view would mark you out as being either a)fucking simple, or b) someone who's never been out of thier bedroom and is fairly unlikely to ever procreate, and therefore is also unlikely to fully understand the feelings of anger, grief and a desire for vengence that would be brought out in any parent or reasoned adult.

Oh but "justice" and "vengence" are two different things arnt they, our wooly jumpered friends will tell us.

Are they though? Either way, vermin like the person or people who committed this crime should be removed from society.

Then buried in an unmarked grave out the back of the prison.

i understood, i didn't need clarification, you wasted your time m8

 

[yaruar]

How would you deal with the offender?

assess them and then lock them up for a long time, whilst attempting to understand why they do the things they do and possibly treat them if possible.

One of the biggest problems with sex offenders, and especially paedophiles is the lack of understanding as to why they act the way they do, how their sexuality formed. A lot of psychologists refuse to work with them as it's such an emotive subject (a friend of mine did work with offenders at Whitmore a few years ago and most the the prison psychologists refused to work with them in any way) Through understanding it might be easier to prevent future abuses.

 

[psyco]

How would you deal with the offender Louster?

im sure alot more civil than you would

 

[ZiggY]

20 years down the line he will have found god have a better education than me and be due for release,he will also be in great shape with his health care.

Hang em ffs!

 

[Calaen]

assess them and then lock them up for a long time, whilst attempting to understand why they do the things they do and possibly treat them if possible.

One of the biggest problems with sex offenders, and especially paedophiles is the lack of understanding as to why they act the way they do, how their sexuality formed. A lot of psychologists refuse to work with them as it's such an emotive subject (a friend of mine did work with offenders at Whitmore a few years ago and most the the prison psychologists refused to work with them in any way) Through understanding it might be easier to prevent future abuses.

I appreciate what you are saying, but how could you ever trust someone like that to ever be fixed?

 

[Calaen]

im sure alot more civil than you would

Yes because the offender is obviously a normal civilized human being.

 

[yaruar]

I appreciate what you are saying, but how could you ever trust someone like that to ever be fixed?

I'm not qualified to say. My main point is that hanging/setting them on fire/etc isn't the right thing to do, at the very least keep people alive to find out why they becamse who they are to try to work out ways to prevent it happening again. Another reason why vengence is never a good thing...

 

[psyco]

Yes because the offender is obviously a normal civilized human being.

so you want to reduce yourself to his standards?

 

[Damini]

Oh, stop the trolling. Those people who are arguing the psychological and philosophical "why do we care so much" line understand all too well the nature of taboo in a society, and why people react angrily when that taboo is broken, so are just arguing with the angry forumites because they can, not because they don't understand their viewpoint. You can't pit a logical argument against an instinctive emotional response, especially not in an online forum.

 

[Trem]

I'm not qualified to say. My main point is that hanging/setting them on fire/etc isn't the right thing to do, at the very least keep people alive to find out why they becamse who they are to try to work out ways to prevent it happening again. Another reason why vengence is never a good thing...

Evil people are evil people, they always have been and always will.

Maybe we should of tried to reason with Hitler if he was caught or maybe General Mugabe(sp), what about Milosovic(sp)?

Some people are fucked in the head and some aren't, no reasoning or therapy will fix that for gods sake.

 

[ECA]

Oh, stop the trolling. Those people who are arguing the psychological and philosophical "why do we care so much" line understand all too well the nature of taboo in a society, and why people react angrily when that taboo is broken, so are just arguing with the angry forumites because they can, not because they don't understand their viewpoint. You can't pit a logical argument against an instinctive emotional response, especially not in an online forum.

HAPPY!

 

[Kami]

20 years down the line he will have found god have a better education than me and be due for release,he will also be in great shape with his health care.

Hang em ffs!

Guys who hard/kill/rape kids aren't treated well in prisons. Personally I'd let him hang. His life is effectively over, or would be if I was the kids parents.

 

[Talivar]

I do psychology aswell and always makes me laugh when u see other psychologists try to twist an argument to make themselfs seem clever. At the end of the day no matter how advanced we become we are still part animal who are molded by the society/enviroment we grow up in. No matter how many degrees you do or books you read, at the end of the day you still an animal who is designed to make babies and try to ensure your species doesnt die out. So ofc we feel more grief over children because children are the future of our species. it is sad to see how people like the man in question can have fallen so low as to do this but lets not forget he HAS fallen and by his actions has stepped over a line from which I beleive there is no return. Burning /hanging ect may seem crude to some but its main purpose's are to help people feel a justice has been done but also to send a clear message to other would be killers that if you cross the line you WILL be punished and punished severly.

 

[Chilly]

Nope. And to even say this marks you, again, as someone for whom "thinking is bad omg". Everything about life, and us, requires explanation - you can't just 'magic it away' because it's 'so natural and oh god you just don't understand' because that's the sort of unthinking bullshit that gets you nowhere, and has absolutely no explanatory or logical merit. It's people like you that, completely inexplicably, distrust 'experts' as they, you know, think and know too much about stuff. Which is bad. Somehow.

I've already explained why grief is, at first glance, completely detrimental at an evolutionary level, and hence its existence literally begs explanation - if it did not have any advantages, and given its obvious disadvantages, it would have been selected out of us a long, long time ago. Tilda's response is basically the theory that I mentioned, only with 'miss' instead of a more general 'grief response', which I think is possibly a little misleading. But I have a sneaking suspicion that repeating this point over and over won't make any dents in your arrogance at all. Call it a hunch.

Grief is not evolutionarily detrimental. Its the same as pain - pain feels bad so you try and avoid it. Grief feels bad so you try and avoid situations where you feel it - ie protect your friends and family and get on with shagging like rabbits!

You need to think about the big picture before you make sweeping statements about evolution. Not least, the very fact it is there is fucking good evidence its there for a reason. Not much isnt.

 

[psyco]

Oh, stop the trolling. Those people who are arguing the psychological and philosophical "why do we care so much" line understand all too well the nature of taboo in a society, and why people react angrily when that taboo is broken, so are just arguing with the angry forumites because they can, not because they don't understand their viewpoint. You can't pit a logical argument against an instinctive emotional response, especially not in an online forum.

unfortunately, saying 'oh, please stop it' wont effect the FH people

 

[Louster]

Grief is not evolutionarily detrimental. Its the same as pain - pain feels bad so you try and avoid it. Grief feels bad so you try and avoid situations where you feel it - ie protect your friends and family and get on with shagging like rabbits!

You need to think about the big picture before you make sweeping statements about evolution. Not least, the very fact it is there is fucking good evidence its there for a reason. Not much isnt.

Did you even read that post and my previous post? This is almost exactly what I've already said. And I wasn't "making sweeping statements about evolution" - I was using evolution to make a point.

 

[yaruar]

Evil people are evil people, they always have been and always will.

Maybe we should of tried to reason with Hitler if he was caught or maybe General Mugabe(sp), what about Milosovic(sp)?

Some people are fucked in the head and some aren't, no reasoning or therapy will fix that for gods sake.

That is where we differ, i don't believe in "evil" i think it's a cop out created because we don't like to think that we all the the capacity to be one of the "monsters" after all we're all essentially biologically almost the same but for a few milipercentages of genes and our upbringing. It's those differences we need to understand.

Also Evil as a concept is a relative one, in terms of political evils, as has often been written, it's the winning side which writes the history.

 

[Trem]

I feel that with humans being evil is more a case of them having what they think is correct in their heads when most us have in our heads the stuff thats wrong.

Erm, I fucked the above up, what I mean is the ones called evil can't see they are doing wrong, or can't reason what they do is wrong so they blindly carry on.

I am sorry but we are talking about someone who has strangled a 2 year old baby, whatever is right or wrong in this thread whoever is arguing for someone who can strangle a baby is wrong. Imagine his hands squeezing her throat, they know when stuff isn't right at 2, my son is 2 and a half and he has known for a while what pain is.

If you can picture this fucking scum doing that to a baby and still come on here and argue for him then I am lost in this world.

First 2 paragraphs were to you yaruar. Rest was a general thing.

 

[Wij]

I did my dissertation on moral philosophy and I still think the guy should be shot in the kneecaps and then gutted alive.

 

[nath]

I did my dissertation on moral philosophy

I may be projecting but it seems that you feel that because of this you feel your opinion is more valid than people who disagree with you. Correct me if I'm wrong by all means.

 

[Calaen]

I did my dissertation on moral philosophy and I still think the guy should be shot in the kneecaps and then gutted alive.

Wij for President!!!!

 

[NikonL]

No-one here is really qualified to answer the question "should he live or die." On the one side, the correct thing to do is to not stoop down to the lowlifes level, and to prevent anymore bloodshed over the poor girl.

On the other side, i doubt anyone here could suppress the urge to kill the guy if it had been their daughter that died. But in theory, once youve taken his life, yours would have to be taken too? Otherwise there is no system in place... and the world wouldnt work.

 

[Damini]

I may be projecting but it seems that you feel that because of this you feel your opinion is more valid than people who disagree with you. Correct me if I'm wrong by all means.

I read it as in he can understand both the complex social and cultural yabedada reasons why children dying is the ultimate rage enducer, and yet he still has rage enduced by it.

 

[throdgrain]

Jesus wept.

And if he didnt, he bloody well should have done.

 

[Wij]

I may be projecting but it seems that you feel that because of this you feel your opinion is more valid than people who disagree with you. Correct me if I'm wrong by all means.

No no - you are quite correct. Carry on.