Left Axe...This is why nerf needed

[Qte Eth]

also dont think any necro thinks it was a mistake

 

[ztyx]

edit: wrong qouted... darn these forums layout

 

[lofff]

Originally posted by Qte Eth
etc

stop keeling my solo-unbuffed-girlie-skirt-wearing ass on prydwen will yah?

 

[Agreac]

Originally posted by dakeyras
Zerkers were never meant to hit as hard as they are and it is going to change. End regen is irrelevent. LA has to be taken back to pre 1.50 and then look at end.

How about taking CD/DW growth rates up? Like I said earlier there's no point making a light tank in this game if you can't out damage main tanks but have worse defence. And I fail to understand how anyone can say end regen is irrelevant. That's the whole reason why they're looking into this.


P.S. Give me URL to that berserker TL comment, unable to find it

 

[Cawr]

Heres a few snippets for those too Lazy to read:

Unstyled Damage output -

Spec LAMain LAOff LADPS DWMain DWOff DWDPS
50 184.05 +71.55 85.2 202.5 + 53.1 85.2

Styled damage output -

Spec LAMain LAOff LADPS DWMain DWOff DWDPS
50 296.55 + 71.55 122.7 202.5 + 53.1 85.2

These are taken from the tables of results without the artificially induced haste effects - when this effect is added the gaping void between the overall dmage output is even larger.

Now for the nice trolls out there the bigger the number the better...

And i thought this was interesting given Sourzi's claim that using a 2h she could do "comparable" damage.

"Is this about Endurance Regen? No, in fact Endurance Regen is mostly unrelated – the only style in the Left Axe which takes a large amount of endurance is Doublefrost. Endurance regen is merely a side issue – even in a world where no endurance regen existed, LA would outdamage CD/DW by a large margin over time, and 2H weapons by even more, assuming appropriate styles were used."

Fine increase the style Growth on DW/CD - and give them the abilty to 1/2 shot casters. Just do somthing..

 

[Flimgoblin]

Originally posted by sorusi
no 200 - 300 is against ppl that got good resists and resistant armour.. or neutral..

strange that my slash resistant armour with 24% slash resist gets hit for >500...

 

[sorusi]

Originally posted by Cawr
Heres a few snippets for those too Lazy to read:

Unstyled Damage output -

Spec LAMain LAOff LADPS DWMain DWOff DWDPS
50 184.05 +71.55 85.2 202.5 + 53.1 85.2

Styled damage output -

Spec LAMain LAOff LADPS DWMain DWOff DWDPS
50 296.55 + 71.55 122.7 202.5 + 53.1 85.2

These are taken from the tables of results without the artificially induced haste effects - when this effect is added the gaping void between the overall dmage output is even larger.

Now for the nice trolls out there the bigger the number the better...

And i thought this was interesting given Sourzi's claim that using a 2h she could do "comparable" damage.

"Is this about Endurance Regen? No, in fact Endurance Regen is mostly unrelated – the only style in the Left Axe which takes a large amount of endurance is Doublefrost. Endurance regen is merely a side issue – even in a world where no endurance regen existed, LA would outdamage CD/DW by a large margin over time, and 2H weapons by even more, assuming appropriate styles were used."

Fine increase the style Growth on DW/CD - and give them the abilty to 1/2 shot casters. Just do somthing..

yes i can with 2h, will just swing 1sec slower or so.. bit annoying agaist hibbs, but works good against albs w/o pbt

 

[sorusi]

Originally posted by Flimgoblin
strange that my slash resistant armour with 24% slash resist gets hit for >500...

probably with relics 20%, and you end up with like 4% resists or something.. not sure how its calculated but it does alot..

 

[Arnor]

Originally posted by sorusi
why do you keep consering about style damage? it doesnt matter at all its the _outcome_ that matters, doesnt mean jack shit if someone hits for 1k dmg with 990 style damage or 1k dmg with 20 style damage does it?....

well, actually it does. That example would mean that the dude with +20 from style would hit for 980dmg unstyled



edit: and wth is the point of this post anyways? We all seen the screens of zerkers hitting for 1300dmg, we all read that LA/end-regen will be nerfed. This is just sophisticated post-farming imo:wall:

 

[zico]

Originally posted by dakeyras
Very heavy going in places but if anyone can justify LA after analysing this then they are in a state of comatose denial!


http://pete.waterman.net/daoc/Dual-Wield.html


Just reverse the developers error and everything sorted. Of course all of Midgard will whine but it is in the interest of game balance.

Three things about that article:

1) All the calculations are based on an off hand axe swinging with speed 2.2, afaik a speed 2.2 off hand axe doesnt exist (2.4 being the slowest). So all the dps calculations will be wrong.

2) It states that in patch 1.50 all left axe styles had their growth rates doubled therefore making left axe much more powerful than CD/DW. In fact patch 1.50 was a slight nerf to left axe, those playing at the time noticed a slight reduction in left axe damage not a doubling in styled damage.

3) It doesnt take into account endurance usage for styles.

 

[nightsorrow]

k

 

[garnax]

MIDGARD IS A FIGHTING REALM FFS

Midgard = Fighting realm = SHOULD have better dmg then any other realms tanks.

As other realms has best dmg in other types

A alb tank and a hib tank should not make same dmg as a mid tank

A hib spellcaster should do more dmg over all then a mid or alb caster as thay are the magical realm.


Cant be that hard to understand or?

 

[exe]

Originally posted by lofff
stop keeling my solo-unbuffed-girlie-skirt-wearing ass on prydwen will yah?

We wub j00

 

[katt!]

Re: MIDGARD IS A FIGHTING REALM FFS

Originally posted by garnax
Midgard = Fighting realm = SHOULD have better dmg then any other realms tanks.

As other realms has best dmg in other types

A alb tank and a hib tank should not make same dmg as a mid tank

A hib spellcaster should do more dmg over all then a mid or alb caster as thay are the magical realm.


Cant be that hard to understand or?

midgard is not the melee realm. get it. no?

im sorry :[

 

[Tigerius]

Originally posted by Arnor2
edit: and wth is the point of this post anyways? We all seen the screens of zerkers hitting for 1300dmg, we all read that LA/end-regen will be nerfed. This is just sophisticated post-farming imo:wall:

Pretty good point yeah, the battlelines are drawn.

This document is a nice read though for those less feebleminded trolls who are just fearing the bat. We've heard the Endreg yadda, we've heard the Zerker excuses ranging from "ugh, Midgard melee realm" to "It's really not that high, no really" to "Well when I'm OOE... uh yes I always get Endbuff" to "I really sacrifice alot and specialise alot to be able to do this damage". We've heard and seen other people post single nasty experiences of Zerk encounters. This IS a change from all those biased experiences. Believing numbers over experiences can be debatable but when the experiences are so biased...

 

[sorusi]

yeah most of you have alot of experience of playing the berserker -yeaaaahhhhh you doo.. now crawl home

 

[Gahldir]

Re: MIDGARD IS A FIGHTING REALM FFS

Originally posted by garnax
Midgard = Fighting realm = SHOULD have better dmg then any other realms tanks.

As other realms has best dmg in other types

A alb tank and a hib tank should not make same dmg as a mid tank

A hib spellcaster should do more dmg over all then a mid or alb caster as thay are the magical realm.


Cant be that hard to understand or?

why doesn't hib spells have higher delvevalue then ?

 

[Belomar]

Originally posted by wrathofsauron
k. i did not bother to read it all to much for a troll to handle

Hehe. At least I can finally make use of my l337 Avalonian intelligence!

1. Midgard (meele realm) we are suppose to do most damage shall small fucking celts and saracens do the same damage as trolls?

This is perhaps the most common misconception in the game. All realms are supposed to be balanced. That Midgard is the melee realm reflects in that they have the highest amount of melee classes. Try it another way, if Midgard is the melee realm and Hibernia the magical realm, what would Albion be good at? (And don't say zerging, it doesn't work and we all know Mids have show great zerging skill lately.) That's right. The "melee realm" vs the "magical realm" titles only talk about the nature of the realms, not their strengths.

 

[noaim]

Originally posted by Belomar
Try it another way, if Midgard is the melee realm and Hibernia the magical realm, what would Albion be good at?

You are good at whining. And I like it...would hate to whine here all on my own with no albs to have whineraces with...would be v dull.

 

[Belomar]

Re: MIDGARD IS A FIGHTING REALM FFS

Originally posted by garnax
Midgard = Fighting realm = SHOULD have better dmg then any other realms tanks.

As other realms has best dmg in other types

A alb tank and a hib tank should not make same dmg as a mid tank

A hib spellcaster should do more dmg over all then a mid or alb caster as thay are the magical realm.


Cant be that hard to understand or?

So, where in this leet breakdown of yours do Albs fit in? In which department is Albion the best realm? Seeing it from this direction, you will realize that your argumentation is flawed, and that the "fighting realm" epitah is just a reflection of the class makeup in Midgard. All realms are supposed to be balanced.

Also, as every experienced player of this game should know by now, melee >>> magic in this patch. There is simply no way for a caster to compete when tanks are charging at them with speed song 6 (ss5 + sprint) and eating up that precious distance in no time, and with CC being in the sad state of affairs it is. A group of five zerkers with det4, skald, and healer can obliterate any enemy group out there (well, BoF will hurt, but that's an active RA, isn't it?).

 

[Belomar]

Originally posted by noaim
You are good at whining. And I like it...would hate to whine here all on my own with no albs to have whineraces with...would be v dull.

Ah-hah, an Alb in a Mid disguise!

 

[noaim]

Maybe albs should have a lil better tanks than hib, and a lil better casters than mid.

And yes BoF is an active RA, but you cant really spam instamezz either, also on timer (shorter one tho).

 

[noaim]

Originally posted by Belomar
Ah-hah, an Alb in a Mid disguise!

It is fun to see what you think of the people in your own realm (assuming you dont like me v much)

And seriously...who would give a fuck about relics if it wasnt for BW?

Do the 20% damage add (or what you wanna call it) raise the caps? Or does it just makes you reach caps easier?

If the first, relics are nice to have...if the second, I´d take a CS in Albion any day, if it wasnt for the joy of seeing albsbeing pissed of on forums

 

[stach]

Originally posted by noaim
Maybe albs should have a lil better tanks than hib, and a lil better casters than mid.

And yes BoF is an active RA, but you cant really spam instamezz either, also on timer (shorter one tho).

I think albs were designed to be the once in the middle with so so fighters and so so Casters ... But we have uber healers tho

 

[lofff]

Originally posted by exe
We wub j00

lies


I still hope sorcs come back to activeness with patch so i can set couple groups to fight yah :great:

 

[Arnor]

Re: Re: MIDGARD IS A FIGHTING REALM FFS

Originally posted by Gahldir
why doesn't hib spells have higher delvevalue then ?

because you have baselinestun shitmime

 

[Tigerius]

Originally posted by sorusi
yeah most of you have alot of experience of playing the berserker -yeaaaahhhhh you doo.. now crawl home

Just as most Zerkers have experiences facing full groups of them in RvR? You probably DO but still the biased part takes overhand.
By in-game experiences it's far from unbiased to only have Zerker experience and judge things from that point of view, until you've played other classes, the other dual wielders, and more then anything the next man under the Zerkeraxe then your opinion really aint more valid. For those who have done both, and I'm fairly sure there are, it's still sadly so that they will be biased towards something right from the start and see things with less then objective eyes from there on.

Go numbers. I still fail to see 1 Mid point regarding the actual numbers, yet they are the cold hard facts here. Less smokescreens please, more to the point.

 

[_uggly_]

Originally posted by dakeyras
Very heavy going in places but if anyone can justify LA after analysing this then they are in a state of comatose denial!


http://pete.waterman.net/daoc/Dual-Wield.html


Just reverse the developers error and everything sorted. Of course all of Midgard will whine but it is in the interest of game balance.

yea remove LA completley and give me a 9 sec stunn on first style instead i own your ass even more

 

[lissandra]

Originally posted by old.Leel
Well, what about the weponskill that dragonfang infils get for free with their extra spec points? And how infil str/con debuff is more effective against sb's than sb str/con debuff is against thrust infils? All this means that thrust infils will have much higher weaponskill than any sb. Nerf kthx.

Howabout every SB having purge and thrust being weak against leather and slash which all sbs are is strong against leather...

 

[Cawr]

Re: Re: Left Axe...This is why nerf needed

Originally posted by zico
Three things about that article:

1) All the calculations are based on an off hand axe swinging with speed 2.2, afaik a speed 2.2 off hand axe doesnt exist (2.4 being the slowest). So all the dps calculations will be wrong.

2) It states that in patch 1.50 all left axe styles had their growth rates doubled therefore making left axe much more powerful than CD/DW. In fact patch 1.50 was a slight nerf to left axe, those playing at the time noticed a slight reduction in left axe damage not a doubling in styled damage.

3) It doesnt take into account endurance usage for styles.

1) Only some of the calculations were made using a Spd2.2 off hand wep and it was stated this was an extreme for Midgard, as a Spd4.0 wep is extreme for Albion/Hibernia. You'll notice if you actually read the whole arcticle these were used to highlight, to an extreme, the effect of said "haste" effect Dual Weilders can achieve. There are calculation used with weapons of similar or exact speeds on each hand.

2)Theres a Quote from the patch notes in there... Highlighted in red... stating the style growth rates were doubled... Obviously not a nerf.

3)The purpose of the article isn't to address the issue of end-regen with continuous styling, merely to explain why and how LA hits for such devasting numbers when compared to the other two Duel Wielding Light Tanks ( Mercs/BMs ).