Lag or cheats ?

[Xandax]

<snip> Some players who use cheats are decent people deep down, they just want to be able to compete and some occasionally make the mistake of trying a cheat programme, often out of curiosity, if cheating wasn't rediculously easy, most wouldn't even try in the first place.
<snip>

Nobody who cheats in something like this is a "decent person deep down". They are cheaters, they care not about anybody but themselves and their own fun. I don't care it is easy, I don't care it can't be detected or what else - they are cheaters, no excuse, no exceptions.

Yes - software should be solid, and resistant against cheats and what not. However speaking as a programmer it is insanely difficult, and you have many other technical considerations to make as well.
How much and what of the flow can you handle on the server without hurting performance, how much must you migrate to the client, how will you do it - how will you encrypt data streams again with performance in mind.

It is easy to excuse with "it is their own fault for not securing their software" - but it is not a valid excuse. Many people don't cheat, and they can potentially see the game being ruined by people who do cheat.

 

[Norvindus]

Nobody who cheats in something like this is a "decent person deep down". They are cheaters, they care not about anybody but themselves and their own fun. I don't care it is easy, I don't care it can't be detected or what else - they are cheaters, no excuse, no exceptions.

Yes - software should be solid, and resistant against cheats and what not. However speaking as a programmer it is insanely difficult, and you have many other technical considerations to make as well.
How much and what of the flow can you handle on the server without hurting performance, how much must you migrate to the client, how will you do it - how will you encrypt data streams again with performance in mind.

It is easy to excuse with "it is their own fault for not securing their software" - but it is not a valid excuse. Many people don't cheat, and they can potentially see the game being ruined by people who do cheat.

Exactly to cheat is the lazy approach which proberbly to many uses, its the people who want everything delivered on a silver platter and don't want to USE time to find out strategies/tactics
those that just want satisfaction right now and really don't want to think.
In a way I lump the 'give me a macro/addon that can cast the right spell at the right time, when i look at the target' people into that category aswell, they are lazy no skilled.

 

[Tallen]

Nobody who cheats in something like this is a "decent person deep down". They are cheaters, they care not about anybody but themselves and their own fun. I don't care it is easy, I don't care it can't be detected or what else - they are cheaters, no excuse, no exceptions.

Yes - software should be solid, and resistant against cheats and what not. However speaking as a programmer it is insanely difficult, and you have many other technical considerations to make as well.
How much and what of the flow can you handle on the server without hurting performance, how much must you migrate to the client, how will you do it - how will you encrypt data streams again with performance in mind.

It is easy to excuse with "it is their own fault for not securing their software" - but it is not a valid excuse. Many people don't cheat, and they can potentially see the game being ruined by people who do cheat.

Jupitus already posted to this effect and i have already replied to this subject if you take a look back

 

[Xandax]

Jupitus already posted to this effect and i have already replied to this subject if you take a look back

I did and you just go down the "but it is so easy" route.
It doesn't matter it is easy - that still make them cheaters who's only goal is to further their own enjoyment at the expense of everybody else, effects on the game be damned.

There is no excuse for cheating in a game like this, where it is damaging to other people. Not the "but they do it, so I need to, to stay competitive" or "it was so easy, they should fix the game" or "my brother installed aimbots".
It is trying to rationalize selfishness and disregard for everybody else.
Using radar, anti-CD hacks, speed hacks etc has direct consequence for everybody else and ruins the game for others.

 

[Shike]

There is no excuse for cheating in a game like this, where it is damaging to other people.

And thats that. Period. Cheating in a mmo is just a display of bad character and I really dont like it at all. I rather quit playing than cheating myself to "compete".. Even if its easy. Thats just a lame lame excuse and has its foundation in a sucky personality.

 

[Tallen]

I did and you just go down the "but it is so easy" route.
It doesn't matter it is easy - that still make them cheaters who's only goal is to further their own enjoyment at the expense of everybody else, effects on the game be damned.

There is no excuse for cheating in a game like this, where it is damaging to other people. Not the "but they do it, so I need to, to stay competitive" or "it was so easy, they should fix the game" or "my brother installed aimbots".
It is trying to rationalize selfishness and disregard for everybody else.
Using radar, anti-CD hacks, speed hacks etc has direct consequence for everybody else and ruins the game for others.

Ok, im not disagreeing with you, but your missing the point im afraid and I don't think you actually understand why i felt i needed to respond to Jupitus who had a good point, you aren't adding anything new right now, just going over old ground again.

Once again, I am not condoning cheating in any way, i am simply saying that if it wasn't so easy to cheat, very few would even try. You can probably categorise cheats in two camps, those who will do everything and anything to cheat and those who will be tempted to cheat if it's made rediculously easy to do so but probably wouldn't go to great lengths to cheat otherwise.

Your telling me you have never used a walkthorugh to find out how to complete a quest or a website like mmodb? That can essentially be classified as cheating and by lumping all cheats into one box that precludes any chance for reason on the subject.

And, once again, my main point of disagreement with what Mythic's policy on cheating seems to be. Don't pretend banning players for using cheats is a solution to the problem, it isn't. Stop being reactive and be more proactive and stop people being able to cheat so easily. Run down the websites, fix the code, investigate why these cheats work and stop them from doing so. People will soon stop paying for game hacks if the word is out that Mythic will fix any hack within a few weeks and so it'll soon be worthless. If the hacks are out there for free, they will unlikely be as devious as those people have engineered to make money from. There's not likely going to be the same effort if there is no financial benefit to those who write these things (although some people will always just write these things for the hell of it).

 

[Awarkle]

the thing which will make me laugh is i wouldnt be surprised if mythic is reverse engineering all the hacks currently on the internet. One day they will have a major patch the following day a load of people will suddenly find they have been banned.

Its what i would do. so the advice is "dont cheat"

 

[Xandax]

<snip>
Your telling me you have never used a walkthorugh to find out how to complete a quest or a website like mmodb? That can essentially be classified as cheating and by lumping all cheats into one box that precludes any chance for reason on the subject.<snip>

Using a walkthrough has no consequence for other players, using speed hacks or radar for example has.
The two aren't in the same category by far, no matter how much rationalizing is done.

<snip>
And, once again, my main point of disagreement with what Mythic's policy on cheating seems to be. Don't pretend banning players for using cheats is a solution to the problem, it isn't. Stop being reactive and be more proactive and stop people being able to cheat so easily. Run down the websites, fix the code, investigate why these cheats work and stop them from doing so. People will soon stop paying for game hacks if the word is out that Mythic will fix any hack within a few weeks and so it'll soon be worthless. If the hacks are out there for free, they will unlikely be as devious as those people have engineered to make money from. There's not likely going to be the same effort if there is no financial benefit to those who write these things (although some people will always just write these things for the hell of it).

Do you have any idea about the technical aspects of what you say?
That is why I react to your post.
You say "Mythic should just fix the code" - well, that's just the same as me saying "People should just not cheat".

Basically - the only way Mythic would be able to make their code "cheat proof" would be to keep every single calculation on the server, heavy duty decrypt/encrypting and so on, making the game impossible to play because server performance would be shot down. I seriously doubt you'll ever see a MMO which does this. Heck, I doubt you'll see an ordinary single player game which does this either.

Thus the only actual realistic logical approach is to ban fast, and ban hard.
And it will always be "easy" for people to cheat, because it just takes one smart person to crack the code so to speak. And then in a matter of days, this can be migrated out all over the internet.

So instead of blaming Mythic for making the game easy to cheat in, blame the jerks who do not care about anything but themselves and just want to ruin the fun for others.

And then you can think I "add nothing", but well......