Politics Labour Implosion

Gumbo

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This deserves it's own thread.

What is going to happen to the Labour Party now?

172 Labour MP's oppose Corbyn, 40 Back him. Apparently the vast majority of delusional lefties also back Corbyn, but any sane person would have to agree that Labour are unelectable with him at the helm.

If Corbyn stood down I could see him forming a Momentum Labour group and getting a few seats, perhaps joining a coalition after the next GE with actual Labour. But he won't. He'd rather see the death of his party.

Strange man, strange situation.
 

Embattle

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He doesn't appear to be going anywhere at the moment.
 

Raven

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New vote. He gets in thanks to students and unions. Lots of labour mps going indi or looking for alternative employment.
 

Gumbo

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There's a thing in the Labour constitution that sitting MP's automatically get to defend their seats in General Elections. So we could be in this situation for years.

I don't think that the Unions will back Corbyn. The unions need a sniff of power to maintain a reason for being. It was the disastrous idea of giving anyone with £3 in their pocket the right to choose their leader after the shambles of Ed getting in.

I guess most people on here probably know that I'm not really a Labour supporter..... But I do believe that a decent opposition is always required to keep a government honest. This is not good for the country at all.
 

Scouse

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I agree, but playing devil's advocate: he's the only one (other than greens) offering an alternative government.

The problem is the PLP is full of blairites. Sort of tory-lite. So there's no actually left-left-wing option out there. And democratically he has a massive mandate from the labour members - apart from in the party itself.

If he won't go then it has to go to another vote. If he comes up trumps again then the PLP members need to either back him or stand down and trigger by-elections.
 

Gumbo

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I asked about by-elections on another forum and am led to believe that just leaving the Labour Party would not automatically mean a by-election. It's often done, and often seen as the done thing. But it doesn't have to occur.

Labour have fucked themselves. 300,000 loons can prevent Labour getting the millions of real votes they need to get power again.

If Corbyn is so sure that he represents the future, he ought to have the balls to resign, set up Momentum Labour, retain the backing of his stoodent massive, and sail to victory on a wave of socialist ideals.
 

ECA

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Labours problem is that it thinks it can only win by being tory light, so they backstab anyone who's actually old labour ( corbyn ).
They don't think a socialist ish message will work w/ the british public outside of the nhs/schools.
 

Scouse

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Labours problem is that it thinks it can only win by being tory light
Which is weird - because being lite anything is a bit silly in this day and age. People are screaming for mahoosive change. *Any* change...
 

Talivar

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The labour members hate him not because they think he is crap, but because he represents a threat to their greedy self interests
 

Embattle

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I agree, but playing devil's advocate: he's the only one (other than greens) offering an alternative government.

The problem is the PLP is full of blairites. Sort of tory-lite. So there's no actually left-left-wing option out there. And democratically he has a massive mandate from the labour members - apart from in the party itself.

If he won't go then it has to go to another vote. If he comes up trumps again then the PLP members need to either back him or stand down and trigger by-elections.

Yet even if/when the Tories get in to turmoil most still believe he wouldn't win a general election.
 

DaGaffer

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The labour members hate him not because they think he is crap, but because he represents a threat to their greedy self interests

He's also crap though. He's done absolutely fuck all of any such substance since he took over. Where is a substantive Labour vision to put up against UKIP and the xenophobes? Nowhere. He's the darling of exactly the same students and sjws that all those northern brexiters detest.

I'd certainly agree that Tory-lite isn't the Labour party that's going to bring about social change, but neither is a right-on coal not dole throwback from the 80s.
 

Talivar

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People today told me how we need a strong Labout like Blair, the same man that deceived us into going to war...
 

Shagrat

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The only way I can see this closing off is Labour splitting into 2 parties.

A 'proper' Labour in the mold of the Michael Foot years etc. led by Corbyn

And a tory lite Labour that all the Blair cronies go to
 

Bodhi

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He's also crap though. He's done absolutely fuck all of any such substance since he took over. Where is a substantive Labour vision to put up against UKIP and the xenophobes? Nowhere. He's the darling of exactly the same students and sjws that all those northern brexiters detest.

I'd certainly agree that Tory-lite isn't the Labour party that's going to bring about social change, but neither is a right-on coal not dole throwback from the 80s.

You'll probably find it was the previous time Labour got given the keys that created the Xenophobia and Ukip of which you speak.
 

Scouse

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You'll probably find it was the previous time Labour got given the keys that created the Xenophobia and Ukip of which you speak.
I'd say it was rapidly increasing inequality since the 1970's and a succession of elitist and out of touch governments, both tory and new labour (tory-lite) leaving working class voters disenfranchised and put-upon and thereore susceptible to populist politicians.

How the left can't make anything out of the current mess beggars belief - Corbyn should be happy as a pig in shit - but it's the far right and their xenophobia that's carrying the day.
 

DaGaffer

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You'll probably find it was the previous time Labour got given the keys that created the Xenophobia and Ukip of which you speak.

I don't care. It's all part of a continuum of political, economic and managerial incompetence going back to the 1960s. Most of Western Europe has an unemployable underclass ripe for exploitation by rabble rousers like Farage, but Britain has a bigger underclass than elsewhere and it took more than Tony Blair to create that.
 

Job

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Heres a fact...most people start off liberal and end up right wing, because experience shows them that liberal attitudes are simply exploited by assholes.
 

Bodhi

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I'd say it was rapidly increasing inequality since the 1970's and a succession of elitist and out of touch governments, both tory and new labour (tory-lite) leaving working class voters disenfranchised and put-upon and thereore susceptible to populist politicians.

How the left can't make anything out of the current mess beggars belief - Corbyn should be happy as a pig in shit - but it's the far right and their xenophobia that's carrying the day.

You could say that. You'd be wrong however - if that was the case, after Sovereignty the biggest reason for people to vote Leave would have been inequality, but it wasn't, it was immigration.

Very VERY strong rumours that Corbyn voted Leave BTW. If that's the case my respect for him has actually gone up slightly...
 

DaGaffer

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You could say that. You'd be wrong however - if that was the case, after Sovereignty the biggest reason for people to vote Leave would have been inequality, but it wasn't, it was immigration.

Very VERY strong rumours that Corbyn voted Leave BTW. If that's the case my respect for him has actually gone up slightly...

In a lot of people's heads, inequality and immigration are synonymous; they blame immigrants (wrongly) for their lack of opportunities.

And you respect Corbyn more for lying then? Ookaay...
 

Job

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People dont blame immigrants for stealing jobs...except when they ACTUALLY do, which is reasonable is it not.
Polish, Hungarian and Romanian workers have decimated builders, Kitchen fitters and plumbers .
I visit house refurbishments daily and I'm surprised to hear an English accent.
Every landlord I do work for employs eastern Europeans.
Are we suggesting all those pushed out workers should just smile and go get themselves a degree.
Most people here are protected from the typical immigrant worker, as are most liberals...so easy to shout bigot from your safe job.
 

Gwadien

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People dont blame immigrants for stealing jobs...except when they ACTUALLY do, which is reasonable is it not.
Polish, Hungarian and Romanian workers have decimated builders, Kitchen fitters and plumbers .
I visit house refurbishments daily and I'm surprised to hear an English accent.
Every landlord I do work for employs eastern Europeans.
Are we suggesting all those pushed out workers should just smile and go get themselves a degree.
Most people here are protected from the typical immigrant worker, as are most liberals...so easy to shout bigot from your safe job.

When immigration WON'T change, and we'll be getting people into the country who will come to work and gradually less and less people will be on benefits and stuff, so therefore there will be more competition in the workplace; don't be silly and naive, if we banned immigrants to come and work on manual trades we'd be screwed, so I'd expect there to be more coming in, not less.
 

Yoni

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I'm sorry but the immigrants didn't steal anyone's jobs... They are the ones in a lot of cases to work in jobs where British people just won't anymore... If you want to work there IS work but are you prepared to do the work that is available at the salary available? /rant
 

Job

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I don't want them banned, but bringing people from poor economies in to take over the jobs of huge chunks of the population...and all this' jobs we wont do', is utter claptrap,.they have mostly taken jobs people made a good living from.
Were people expecting this to just blow over...well it fucking hasnt has it.
We just voted ourself out.
 

Job

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I'm sorry but the immigrants didn't steal anyone's jobs... They are the ones in a lot of cases to work in jobs where British people just won't anymore... If you want to work there IS work but are you prepared to do the work that is available at the salary available? /rant
That is utter boloks...a tired mantra from liberals.
The vast majority of jobs replaced where jobs british people were doing.
Pub workers
Cleaners
Builders
Plumbers
Fitters
Waiters
Reception staff
Hotel workers
Shop workers.
All above have seen a massive downturn in their employment opportunites...that is a FACT.
I agree with immigration but dont bullshit yourself that it has no consequences.
 

Tom

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The people whinging about immigrants taking their jobs are the same ones who nip down to Asda to buy five t-shirts for a quid. The t-shirts, of course, made in a Chinese sweatshop - because low wages don't matter in other countries, only here :/
 

Yoni

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Sorry Job you are wrong categorically wrong. Before the banking crisis we (the very very big company I work for) commissioned a study into the validity of rumours we had heard that the number of tradesmen were in decline.... The main reason that came out of this was that not enough of our young people were going into these professions, they were going to Uni to study instead. The company I work for took took this information and developed education programmes to try to encourage / stimulate growth in these professions.... If we are going to talk experts I WAS an expert in the housing market of the U.K. (I say was because I have been away for 8 years).... btw when I left the UK tradesmen could earn as much if not more than so called richer professions ....
 

Gwadien

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Sorry Job you are wrong categorically wrong. Before the banking crisis we (the very very big company I work for) commissioned a study into the validity of rumours we had heard that the number of tradesmen were in decline.... The main reason that came out of this was that not enough of our young people were going into these professions, they were going to Uni to study instead. The company I work for took took this information and developed education programmes to try to encourage / stimulate growth in these professions.... If we are going to talk experts I WAS an expert in the housing market of the U.K. (I say was because I have been away for 8 years).... btw when I left the UK tradesmen could earn as much if not more than so called richer professions ....

Yeah, I've always thought this was kind of obvious, sure there's a shortage of Doctors/Engineers etc in the UK, but the reality we need a lot more tradesmen than any other area of profession really and we'll still be sourcing these from abroad.

Inb4 30 years time; These mexicans come over here...
 

Job

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People stopped going in because they saw immigrants working cash in hand for 40 quid a day...the decrease in trade apprentices was a result of migrant workers, they werent the cure but the cause.
People adapt, thats how it works out, but a LOT of people took a big hit, tbhit is slowly turning around because immigrant want better wages...now they are worried about a flow if Albanians and Turks taking over as cheap labour.
And of course tradesmen were earning good money...because they were doing proper jobs,..as opposed to the billions earned by middle class nonjobs.
 

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