Its Official, Alb Mage's baseline LT is overpowered ^^

[Gama]

So, it's now been proven that the sorc/cabby baseline lifetap (and all lifetaps...) get a little known increase in damage, 6% more damage than it normaly would, with capped pie, than if it were a DD with the same delve/cast time/caster stats.
It's been shown to outdamage a fire wizard/dark RM/(void..light? which spec gets the 209/219 delve) Eld's highest specline DD, even when specced lowly, say 31+19, vs main nuker spec 50+19.

And ofcourse the sorc TL is trying his damnedest to make it look like its completely worthless compared to the lesser DPS, fully specced, specline nukes of the 3 realms supposedly highest damage nukers...

http://vnboards.ign.com/Midgard_Mystic_Professions/b20914/73838673/?220

Aparently mythic know about this.. and are happy that it is working as intended.. guess they really do have a favourite realm ^^

 

[UndyingAngel]

QQ MORE?

 

[Rookiescot]

Yeah ... thats why matter cabalists are soooooo much in demand. / sarcasm off

With NF coming out it should get better for matter cabalists for the first time in DAoC's history we might be wanted.
Course this could get screwed up by some pre emptive nerf call.

 

[Brynn]

Its fun with my sorc - to run solo in emain/odins then moc lifetap

hell i know its cheap/cheesy
great fun tho

but then a ranger/hunter comes along and uses phase shift - makes me sad

 

[Aussie]

saw a thread earlier this week soem muppet claiming he got nuked for 1800 by a sorc

 

[Sycho]

Also saw a thread with rr11 chanter complaining about wiz bolts THEN saying they are better than debuff+stun+dps interupt xDDD

 

[Skaven]

Heh, just had a flick through their boards while I was at it.

More horseshit there than at the grand national. God help any Mythic employees wading through that crap to get any decent feedback.

 

[Chilly]

il swap it for base stun any fucking day of the week.

 

[Moo]

since when do sorcs, cabs, wizzies or elds use pie?

 

[mirieth!]

i'll swap it for base stun any fucking day of the week.

signed. (with correct grammar)

 

[Ghostly]

Its Official, Alb Mage's baseline LT is overpowered ^^

Yes.... one Yank tested this on a /level 20 char it must be true!!!!!1111

 

[Heath]

Gama, did you read the whole post of it or just the title and rush back here foaming at the mouth??.. Looking at it, nothing has been proved, its all assumption. And, all the logs they show, show nothing. And as for saying

Aparently mythic know about this.. and are happy that it is working as intended.. guess they really do have a favourite realm

..we all know what realm is favoured by mythic, and i really dont think it is Albion !!!.

 

[Gama]

Gama, did you read the whole post of it or just the title and rush back here foaming at the mouth??.. Looking at it, nothing has been proved, its all assumption. And, all the logs they show, show nothing. And as for saying
..we all know what realm is favoured by mythic, and i really dont think it is Albion !!!.

Question, did you read the whole 9 pages? the sorc TL admits that it has a higher DPS than the traditional high dmg nukes (the 209 spec nukes), thanks to it's faster cast time, and this.. 6% bonus to lifetaps, which the sorc TL says mythic say they know about, and say its there by design.

 

[Melachi]

Erm, have any of you read it, instead of immediately trying to either change the topic (i.e. Aussie and Sycho and Chilly) or undermining it by implying that because its on VN forums it lacks credibilty (Ghostly, Skaven)?

The Sorc TL is being an idiot on purpose, he deliberately tries to hide behind the front-loading arguement, stating that tests to compare the nukes should be done by comparing it to enemy HP ammounts, (If we did this with melee 2h users would look far better than dual wielders), then he makes a graph showing damage per hit * Acuity, he does admit that the Lifetap is showing higher DPS, but keeps hiding behind his frontload theory, that damage should be balanced over how fast you kill enemies (ie. time take for X hits to 0 hits) which is idiotic and impossible.

Then he goes on about the fact that SM's Anamists and other classes have lifetaps too in a attempt to underplay everything. Finally he comes to the conclusion that was stated on the first post on the first page, that the Lifetap bonus is difirent to DD damage bonus.

And then, guess what folks, you guess'ed it he does the unthinkable!!!!

This is working as intended according to Mythic. They are based on a different formula.

So, if you don't like it use the herald feedback form

The infamous "Working as intended", now trying to justify it by the fact that Mythic may have intedned it to have higher DPS, and Utility than Spec nukes.

Then he goes on that its embedded in coding 'probably' and therefore wont change 'probably'.

Grunjir, I didn't bother testing the dark SM because I was told directly by Mythic that this applies to all lifetaps, that it is the way lifetaps are designed, and that it is staying that way.

Testing it would be a bit of a waste of time now eh

The guy is a total arse, sorry but he was clutching at straws throughout the whole thread, he aknowlleges the fact that there is a problem and says 'he doesnt like it' yet is hiding behind Mythics apparent 'desing feature' (that is that its embedded in coding) and that in order to fix this by lowering the spell level would be unfair due to resists and being the only class without a 50 baseline spell (laugh, hi animists), when the obvious answer is to reduce the Delve dps! Duh.

Sorry, not since that idiot Berserker TL who was asking for some damage back PLZ because of low morale with the class when LA is obviously equal (better?) than DW/CD. Idiot TL's like this should be thrown out immediately.

 

[Gama]

Thank god someone bothered to read it, and yes, the sorc TL is being a complete arse.

He's trying to brush aside the fact that the baseline lifetap does more damage per second than any other baseline DD, and spec 209 DD, and instead focus on the fact that Vs some specific HP ranged targets, the specline DD will bring them down half a second faster.
He's completely ignoring the fact that they only need spend enough spec points in there to bring down variance, ie 31+11+RR body, and then still be able to spec 44 mend for all the sorc's usual toys, and the fact that a primary nuker must spec to 47/48 in their nuke line to pull off that kind of damage, and that leave little spec points for any kind of utility spells - if they have any.

But really, if you cant see how having a baseline spell requiring minimal relative specpoints, being able to out damage spec line, is bloody rediculous, well... maybe alb does need a left-axe sized nerf to wake them up.


(oh, http://vnboards.ign.com/Albion_Mage_Professions/b20917/ - remind you of the zerker boards before LA nerf, or animist boards before their nerfs? )

 

[Ghostly]

or undermining it by implying that because its on VN forums it lacks credibilty (Ghostly, Skaven)?

??

undermining it cuz he tested it on a /level 20 char

 

[Melachi]

??

undermining it cuz he tested it on a /level 20 char

Sorry for mistakes, tis late here

Same difirence though, still undermining despite the guy actually being right

 

[Nausilus^^]

Is there a LT nerf inc, or are albs just whining in general trying to justify that no matter what statistics say, lifetaps are infact overpowered?

 

[Draylor]

So?

Lifetaps also have a higher chance of being totally resisted than plain DDs. Tested long ago, Mythic also said it was 'working as intended'. If the muppet posting on VN did any actual testing with a lvl 50 sorc vs players - rather than irrelevant crap with a /lvl 20 char - he'd see this. End result would be lifetap doing the same if not LOWER damage than other casters DDs.

Really CBA reading a clueless 10 page VN whine thread though

 

[Sendraks]

But really, if you cant see how having a baseline spell requiring minimal relative specpoints, being able to out damage spec line, is bloody rediculous, well... maybe alb does need a left-axe sized nerf to wake them up.

Excuse me, why does Albion need a nerf? I don't play a sorc, I play a Pally (generally accepted as being in the gimp top 10 for RvR a lot of the time) and I fail to see why the entire realm should be nerfed because, oooh, we have more than one good class.

The solution to this problem is obvious. Up the damage for wizzy spec nukes, beyond the damage of the sorc. Then at least Albion will have another good class. Wizzy's will still have feck all utility when compared to sorc, but at least the player can think about the damage they might have done before getting steamrolled by high utility Hib/Mid classes.

The more likely solution, is to nerf sorc damage down without doing anything to enhance Wizzys. If mythic go any route, it'll be that one. If only because Albion is the Poster Realm for Nerf.

 

[Cylian]

nerf albs ? lol

how many nerfs to albs were there in the past 3 years ?

Smite Clerics
Dragonfang

...and ?

ah yes, Cabbie Nerf! ... no wait, this 'bugfix' got rolled back 2 days later.

 

[Jaapi]

Really CBA reading a clueless 10 page VN whine thread though

Actually if you would read it it consists a lot of actual testing, not just whine.
End result is that even sorc TL agrees that baseline lifetap has better DPS than spec nukes which is wrong considering that you have to use spec points to get lower DPS.
And that's without the heal effect it has.

 

[Sendraks]

how many nerfs to albs were there in the past 3 years ?

Alb classes come pre-nerfed for your convenience.

 

[Darzil]

Not having played a sorc in RvR (just a baby one), how important is the heal effect in practice?

In PvE I find it handy because I can start pulling when solo before I get to full health, but it's useless once a monster is pounding on me, because you can't cast then. I'd guess unless you have MoC, the same pretty much applies in RvR.

The testing also appears to suggest that although dps for a Lifetap may be slightly above DD's, the power cost is higher per damage done.

I suspect this is only becoming an issue since the higher power regen rates (since ToA) and lower magic resists (since ToA/NF), as well as keep oriented combat (NF) allowing one to stand in a power font and nuke. The power cost will have kept the lifetaps less effective than the DD's, until the power became less limited.

Darzil

 

[sibanac]

while the LT might have a slightly higher dps, id like to see how much more it gets resisted then a normal dd

 

[Tsabo]

An Ice wiz friend of mine has DDed for 1100 without critical b4, that was after the mob had been ice debuffed by ice wiz, sorc(blue debuff) and a LW.

 

[Krakatau]

In PvE I find it handy because I can start pulling when solo before I get to full health, but it's useless once a monster is pounding on me, because you can't cast then. I'd guess unless you have MoC, the same pretty much applies in RvR.

And my Runemaster can keep nuking with a monster on me or what ?
For all casters (well a few do have instas, I know that) it's the same problem.

But yes, it must be working as intended having to spec 47+ in one line to do less damage & don't have the luxury of selfheal

 

[Chilly]

Just looking purely at the cast speed PoV the LT gets a (2.8/2.5) 12% dmg increase due to cast speed - or if oyu like you can cast 12% more LTs in a given time than a spec DD - over time giving rise to a 12% damage increase.

Factoring in this 12% you get a 200.48dps delve for the LT if you were casting it at the same speed as a spec nuke or a 186.61dps delve for a spec DD if you cast it at the same speed as a LT.

Add in the fact sorcs get a free 66% heal with every LT id say it sure is somewhat overpowered but who cares? Its only overpowered when moc is up and any fuckign spell becomes overpowered when moc is up.

There is also a ~14% (33/29) increase in power cost for the lifetap, which more than makes up for the 12% from the cast speed.

Then factor in this magical 5% some random yank pulled out of his arse (slightly tested but not enough to convince me yet) and you end up with sorcs doing 210.51dps nukes (179*1.12*1.05). This is indeed more than a 209 spec nuke and also happens to heal.

Anyway, until someone does some hardcore tests (with 100+ nukes to level 50 players with decent equip etc) and taking into account all stats, RAs, relic bonuses and resists I really dont care and il say again wha ti said earlier:

Id swap it for baseline stun any fucking day of the week.

 

[Jaapi]

The testing also appears to suggest that although dps for a Lifetap may be slightly above DD's, the power cost is higher per damage done.

You forgot some keywords. Baseline lifetap may be slightly above spec DD's.

 

[Aeatan]

I don't get this, what's this all about? Sorc's LT overpowered? I get nuked for 500+ damage and nuke for 230~ damage on lucky days. Not sure about this, but, I think that spec in body does affect the effectiveness and damage of the base LT spell, so, if you spec in body it's only logical that it should do more damage than what the delve says?

By speccing in, let's say, 40 body, you sacrifice what you'd otherwise get for 40 mind. A high damage DD LT is a good compensation, for the damage is the very reason why someone would spec in body, rather than in mind (CC). Or is the damage output not the issue? Am not sure what to think of this. I fail to see what's causing the fuss.

If body spec /does/ affect the baseline output damage, then the baseline LT is in a sense a spec spell wouldn't it?