Its Official, Alb Mage's baseline LT is overpowered ^^

[Gama]

I don't get this, what's this all about? Sorc's LT overpowered? I get nuked for 500+ damage and nuke for 230~ damage on lucky days. Not sure about this, but, I think that spec in body does affect the effectiveness and damage of the base LT spell, so, if you spec in body it's only logical that it should do more damage than what the delve says?

By speccing in, let's say, 40 body, you sacrifice what you'd otherwise get for 40 mind. A high damage DD LT is a good compensation, for the damage is the very reason why someone would spec in body, rather than in mind (CC). Or is the damage output not the issue? Am not sure what to think of this. I fail to see what's causing the fuss.

If body spec /does/ affect the baseline output damage, then the baseline LT is in a sense a spec spell wouldn't it?

You only need 50 'effective' body spec to remove all variance from it in rvr though, and even with 31mind(which is the most common sorc spec aparently)+11(items)+RR, that will remove most of the variance, maybe you wont quite outdamage those casters who have to spec their dmg line to 46/47, until your get RR9/RR10 to bring that effective spec up to 50, but you are only paying 495 spec pointsm leaving you enough to get 44 mind, and have SO MANY other goodies which primary nukers can only dream of.

Anyway, in comparison to baseline lvl 50 DD's, 179 delve, 2.6 sec cast time, it is overperfoming by a very large ammount, and that is the spell it should be equal to...

 

[Balbor]

calling pot black and all that but i don't think any mid has the right to sit here and say how OP alb/hibs LT is when they have instent LT.

If socerer have a higher DD DPS than wizard then i think they should let Saracens become wizards.

Sorcerers can'r debuff there own baseline damage so that puts them behind chanters, RM and Cabalists.

And Slanny the VN thread starter is complaining that the LT has a better DPS than his Dark spec DD, well if a Runemaster is specing Darkness cause they want to do single target Nukes then they clearly don't know much about the game.

 

[Jaapi]

I don't get this, what's this all about? Sorc's LT overpowered?

No, all lifetaps. Not just sorc.

 

[Jaapi]

Sorcerers can'r debuff there own baseline damage so that puts them behind chanters, RM and Cabalists.

Which would be great, but the issue is between sorcs, elds and SM's.

 

[Jeriraa]

The spec doesnt affect the damage as such. It lowers variance. Variance is minimized when <spec> + <skill bonus> reaches 50.
The problem here is: A RR5 Sorc would only have to spec 35 body (630 training points) to reach equal/higher damage than a primary nuker who has to spend more than 1100 training points to get the highest spec nuke.

So this is not about Sorcs majorly outdamaging other casters. Its about them getting a tool very very cheap wich others have to pay hard cash for.

 

[Balbor]

Which would be great, but the issue is between sorcs, elds and SM's.

no the starter of the tread was a RM, so he has the issues and therefor puts the issue between Sorcerers Baseline LT and Runemasters Spec DD.

He forgets to mention that with debuff nuking his RM can nuke harder than Air Thurgy, Firewizard and other spec DDs

 

[Jaapi]

no the starter of the tread was a RM, so he has the issues and therefor puts the issue between Sorcerers Baseline LT and Runemasters Spec DD.

He forgets to mention that with debuff nuking his RM can nuke harder than Air Thurgy, Firewizard and other spec DDs

But if you really think about it, he needs to cast 2 spells for it. Baseline lifetap can outdamage my lightchanter spec DD that i used 50 points for (and can't debuff). That really shouldn't be the case.

 

[Chilly]

well, im jolly glad iv got my nice rr5 sorc rdy for the pwnage in nf, all those lovely overpowered ras....couldnt give a fuck about the mids/hibs whining theyv had their day fo rhte last year or two, now its my fucking turn!

 

[Jaapi]

couldnt give a fuck about the mids/hibs whining theyv had their day fo rhte last year or two, now its my fucking turn!

For the last time, it's not an alb issue, it's lifetap in general.

 

[NeonBlue]

Which would be great, but the issue is between sorcs, elds and SM's.

thought the issue was about lifetap?

since when have eldrich's had LT ?

 

[Svartmetall]

...Albion is the Poster Realm for Nerf.

aha

ahahaha

AHAHAHAAAAAAAAAHAHAAAAAAA

 

[Heath]

For the last time, it's not an alb issue, it's lifetap in general.

So, why then did he title the post

It's Official, Alb Mage's baseline LT is overpowered. !!!

Sounds like an Alb issue post to me.

And i love the way the others say "but dont take into consideration debuffs or instas, cos we never use them at all no way ever uh huh"...type thing, BULLSHIT...you have to take everything into consideration when saying one class is more powerful than another. But, i prolly forgot...you have to spec 2 different things for debuff (pretty much like alb has to double spec for things other realms dont), and you have instas, but never use them because they are so crap ....lmao. About time Alb had a decent char. And..somebody look up just how many sorcs there are compared to SM, RM etc.

 

[Gama]

No, all lifetaps. Not just sorc.

but the simple fact is, their baseline LT is only a few points lower than the only higher dmg LT, which is in the dark SM's spec line.

Sorc Baseline LT:
179 delve, 5-6% bonus for being a lifetap, 2.5 sec cast time, returns 60% HP
Normal Baseline DD:
179 Delve, no lifetap bonus dmg, 2.6 sec cast time, no hp return

Dark SM SPECLINE LT:
183 delve, 5-6% bonus for being a lifetap, 2.5 sec cast time, returns 90% HP
Normal Specline DD:
209 Delve, no lifetap bonus dmg, 2.8 sec cast time, no HP return


So, lets work out the delve damage-per-second for each one...

Sorc Baseline LT: 179*1.05/2.5 = 75.18
Normal Baseline DD: 179/2.6 = 68.85
SM Spec LT: 183*1.05/2.5 = 76.83
Main Nuker DD: 209/2.8 = 74.64

So, Sorc (and cab) baseline damage spell, does about 9.2% more DPS than the equivalent baseline DD, and even does 0.75% more DPS than a primary nuker's DD.

Dark SM's LT, on the other hand, does only 2.9% more damage than it's equivalent DD spell, the 209 nuke.


If you are going to say that SM nuke does 2.9% more DPS than the sorc baseline LT, well ofcourse it does, it means the SM needs to spend 1127 spec points, to get 47 dark spec, while the cab/sorc needs only spend 495 to get to 31.

Face it, the Alb Mage BASELINE lifetap is out of line, and it needs fixing.

 

[NeonBlue]

But if you really think about it, he needs to cast 2 spells for it. Baseline lifetap can outdamage my lightchanter spec DD that i used 50 points for (and can't debuff). That really shouldn't be the case.

u specced 50 in light? (no real reason to go 50 light)
...the last light nuke is 45 in Bedazzling

and with a spec of 46 light 28 mana, u CAN debuff ur own nukes

ive played both a light chanter and a mind sorc...and my mind sorry NEVER outdmg'ed my chanter

infact when my sorc was RR6...with a spec of 44 mind 31 body...with baseline LT...i very rarey nuked above 400dmg...but then again i wasnt FULLY Toa'ed/Sc'ed...so maybe it would of been higher if i was

 

[Chilly]

I know its not a sorc issue, but with the rr5 abil, ichor and negative maelstrom and moc3 my sorc is going to take the fucking piss - as will any other rr5+ sorc with buffs and a fair amount of skill.

 

[NeonBlue]

but the simple fact is, their baseline LT is only a few points lower than the only higher dmg LT, which is in the dark SM's spec line.

Sorc Baseline LT:
179 delve, 5-6% bonus for being a lifetap, 2.5 sec cast time, returns 60% HP

Dark SM SPECLINE LT:
183 delve, 5-6% bonus for being a lifetap, 2.5 sec cast time, returns 90% HP


If you are going to say that SM nuke does 2.9% more DPS than the sorc baseline LT, well ofcourse it does, it means the SM needs to spend 1127 spec points, to get 47 dark spec, while the cab/sorc needs only spend 495 to get to 31

Face it, the Alb Mage BASELINE lifetap is out of line, and it needs fixing.

hmmm maybe nothing...BUT the SM specline LT...returns 90% HP while the sorcs baseline LT only returns 60% HP

and if ive understood you correctly that a sorc has only to spec 31 points to get the same dmg as a SM...then ur saying the lvl35 baseline LT will give same amount of dmg as the SM lvl47 specline LT?....if so then...again on the sorc HP return the lvl35 gives 50%...while SM still gets 90%

or are u saying that they got to spec 31 points into body to lower the variance on the lvl50 baseline LT?....which overall will give them more dmg than the lvl47 SM spec LT....either way u have to take the HP return into account, before complaining about dmg?

because i know which id rather have!

 

[Jaapi]

Face it, the Alb Mage BASELINE lifetap is out of line, and it needs fixing.

But that is because of the way game calculates the damage for lifetap, and the fix would have effect on mid and hib aswell.

 

[Melachi]

Excuse me, why does Albion need a nerf? I don't play a sorc, I play a Pally (generally accepted as being in the gimp top 10 for RvR a lot of the time) and I fail to see why the entire realm should be nerfed because, oooh, we have more than one good class.

The solution to this problem is obvious. Up the damage for wizzy spec nukes, beyond the damage of the sorc. Then at least Albion will have another good class. Wizzy's will still have feck all utility when compared to sorc, but at least the player can think about the damage they might have done before getting steamrolled by high utility Hib/Mid classes.

The more likely solution, is to nerf sorc damage down without doing anything to enhance Wizzys. If mythic go any route, it'll be that one. If only because Albion is the Poster Realm for Nerf.

1: Nobody is calling for a nerf to the entire realm. Stop being pedantic, when people say "nerf alb" they dont mean nerf everything in alb.

2: Pallys are no gimps lol, I would rate them up near the top with Warrios on being classes that are 'perfect'.

3: That solution is redicilous, allready nearly all caster dps is over the top, take a look in emain at the ammount of casters, theres a reason for this.

AoM nerf, Resist Piercing, ToA bonuses(favouring Casters), Grapple, Bodyguard.

The solution, is definetly NOT to increase Wizzys DPS, but instead to lower Sorcs DPS.

 

[Chilly]

lower ALL dps accross the board(tanks, assasins, everyin!), slow rvr down slighly but keep the relative delves the same, makes for much more fun i rekon, long fights>5sec instapwnkthx from my experience.

 

[Gama]

But that is because of the way game calculates the damage for lifetap, and the fix would have effect on mid and hib aswell.

No, if you look at the hib forrester baseline lifetap, and SM dark spec lifetap, you will see that they have a lower delve damage than their peer-spells, to compensate for their lower cast time, and this 5-6% lifetap bonus:

Delve Damages:

Generic baseline DD: 179
Hib Forester baseline LT: 164
Alb Mage baseline LT: 179

Generic Specline DD: 209
Dark SM Spec LT: 183


Delve Damage Per Second:

Generic Baseline DD: 68.846
Hib Forester baseline LT: 68.88 (0.05% more DPS than it's standard peer spell)
Alb Mage LT: 75.18 (9.2% more DPS than its standard peer spell)


Generic Specline DD: 74.64
SM spec LT: 76.86 ( 2.97% more DPS than its standard peer spell)

well, 9.2% >>>> 2.97% last time I checked...

It's not the 5-6% LT damage increase which is making the Mage LT more powerful than it should be, it's the fact that they didnt reduce the damage to compensate for the fact that it is a lifetap, like they did for the other lifetaps in the game.

 

[NeonBlue]

So this is not about Sorcs majorly outdamaging other casters. Its about them getting a tool very very cheap wich others have to pay hard cash for.

disagree...whilst sorcs might get slightly better dmg on the LT...for lesser spec points....the HP return on the SM spec LT...is 30% more than the sorcs baseline

so unless am completely stupid...that means SMs are not only speccing for the LT...but a BETTER HP return too.

so to me that seems a fair trade off it u consider everything


Sorcs advantages
less spec points...slightly higher dmg

disavantages
30% lower HP return
more power cost being a baseline spell

Sm advantages
30% more HP return
less power cost being specline spell

disavantages
very slightly lower dmg

Some will argue the sorc has power regen..that makes up for the power cost...but that doesnt help with the number of spells ur able to cast

 

[Aeatan]

Also, how fragile are the other classes with LT? Equally fragile, or is there a difference?

 

[Ormorof]

well, im jolly glad iv got my nice rr5 sorc rdy for the pwnage in nf, all those lovely overpowered ras....couldnt give a fuck about the mids/hibs whining theyv had their day fo rhte last year or two, now its my fucking turn!

so you are quite happy to whine and cry over zerker/savage damage yet when your class is in the spotlight you dont give a shit about what others think? :wub:

 

[Damon_D]

disagree...whilst sorcs might get slightly better dmg on the LT...for lesser spec points....the HP return on the SM spec LT...is 30% more than the sorcs baseline

so unless am completely stupid...that means SMs are not only speccing for the LT...but a BETTER HP return too.

so to me that seems a fair trade off it u consider everything


Sorcs advantages
less spec points...slightly higher dmg

disavantages
30% lower HP return
more power cost being a baseline spell

Sm advantages
30% more HP return
less power cost being specline spell

disavantages
very slightly lower dmg

Some will argue the sorc has power regen..that makes up for the power cost...but that doesnt help with the number of spells ur able to cast

Hmm what you seem to forget in that equation is the tool's the Sorc get's accesse to xtra from saving those points , add those and it looks a little bit diff imho.....

 

[Ormorof]

dont sorcs get power regen in mind anyway?

so the extra power cost is well....

 

[SevenSins]

dont sorcs get power regen in mind anyway?

so the extra power cost is well....

Don't SM's get intercepting pets?

If you wanna go that way, then I'm sure we could go a bit further

 

[NeonBlue]

dont sorcs get power regen in mind anyway?

so the extra power cost is well....

tut trust someone....just for ur benefit ill repeat

Some will argue the sorc has power regen..that makes up for the power cost...but that doesnt help with the number of spells ur able to cast

 

[Chilly]

so you are quite happy to whine and cry over zerker/savage damage yet when your class is in the spotlight you dont give a shit about what others think? :wub:

I was never one to moan very much about savages/zerkers on these boards or anywhere (apart from /gu after i get killed by em) Im jus saying its not the few dmg pints more the LT does as opposed to a spec DD its the fact its a lifetap at all - the ability to deal dmg AND heal oneself at the same time is rather good and has been a sorc baseline skill (and cabba) for a very long time, the introduction of the level 50 version was a bit dubious but I cant really say its particularly overpowering.

OK, so its tough to kill a sorc 1v1, so what? Its tough to kill a chanter 1v1 THEY get baseline stun (qq etc), in a gorup situation the sorc is much more concerned with interrupting other casters and CCing than with dmg generally (well, I am and im 40/36 spec).

As i keep saying, If you nick my baseline LT i want a fucking baseline stun, and give one to mid while your at it as well to level the playing field, or just plain get rid of it all.

 

[Gama]

disagree...whilst sorcs might get slightly better dmg on the LT...for lesser spec points....the HP return on the SM spec LT...is 30% more than the sorcs baseline

so unless am completely stupid...that means SMs are not only speccing for the LT...but a BETTER HP return too.

so to me that seems a fair trade off it u consider everything


Sorcs advantages
less spec points...slightly higher dmg

disavantages
30% lower HP return
more power cost being a baseline spell

Sm advantages
30% more HP return
less power cost being specline spell

disavantages
very slightly lower dmg

Some will argue the sorc has power regen..that makes up for the power cost...but that doesnt help with the number of spells ur able to cast

31 Body, 44 Mind sorc
47 Dark, 26 Sup SM
Sorc advantages
sorc's 72 sec, 400 radius, 1875 range AE mez > Sm's 28 sec, 300 adius, 1500 range AE mez
10% group mez dampening
40% self mez dampening
Able to charm lvl 50 mobs, lot of versitility, nukers/healers/good tanks/ae nukers?
Mana Regen 4
66 STR/CON AE debuff which doesnt break mez > 45 Str/Con AE debuf which DOES break mez
49 sec 350 Radius AE root
baseline AE amnesia
80 sec single targ mez > 49 sec single targ mez
baseline dot

Equalities
Same Single Target Root
same str and dex debuffs
49 dex/qui debuff which doesnt break mez = 69 qui/dex debuff which does break mez

SM advantages
Lvl 26 PBAE, not great for using as a main damage spell, but nice for uncovering stealthers and the like...
HP transfer, but if a sorc charms a healing pet, then they have the advantage on this one anyway
2% higher dmg lifetap... with 1.5% more resists than the sorc one
Intercepting Pet - does crap-all Vs spells though, and can't nuke...

 

[Balbor]

So this is not about Sorcs majorly outdamaging other casters. Its about them getting a tool very very cheap wich others have to pay hard cash for.

you mean like Shamen getting AOE disease?

does spec effect on/off baseline spells?