Its Official, Alb Mage's baseline LT is overpowered ^^

[Melachi]

I tought the bonus was applied like I tought (emphasis on tought, not 100% positive) like normal DD's.

For normal DD's it was multiply delve by three, then divide by cast speed for DPS.

Where the lifetap bonus is (from what I understood on VN) was that instead of a 3x multiplier, lifetaps got a 3.xx (forget exact figure, but it was >3 ) which when total'ed up, made for higher DPS from the sorc lifetap.

 

[Pin]

I tought the bonus was applied like I tought (emphasis on tought, not 100% positive) like normal DD's.

For normal DD's it was multiply delve by three, then divide by cast speed for DPS.

Where the lifetap bonus is (from what I understood on VN) was that instead of a 3x multiplier, lifetaps got a 3.xx (forget exact figure, but it was >3 ) which when total'ed up, made for higher DPS from the sorc lifetap.

the bonus is a % increase to damage much in the same way as a relic or keep bonus which don't increase caps, and not in the same way as MoM, or ToA damage bonuses which also increase caps.

This pic should show that easily enough: http://homepage.mac.com/olly/files/nuketests.gif
(the marginal 3.00-3.05 factor is purely down to using integers on delves and damages... if the 6% went on cap, it would be a 3.18x delve cap)

 

[Jpeg[LOD]]

Is there a LT nerf inc, or are albs just whining in general trying to justify that no matter what statistics say, lifetaps are infact overpowered?

and u dont think baseline hib stun isnt overpowered ? yet been in th game for so long everybodys used to it?

aint no good doing nice dmge regardless of your class if sum noob can just baseline qc stun u and then pbae u to death within 5seconds.


if u gonan whine whine about the stuff that DOES need to be addressed and not silly lil stupid things that IMO are far less important.

 

[Nausilus^^]

and u dont think baseline hib stun isnt overpowered ? yet been in th game for so long everybodys used to it?

aint no good doing nice dmge regardless of your class if sum noob can just baseline qc stun u and then pbae u to death within 5seconds.


if u gonan whine whine about the stuff that DOES need to be addressed and not silly lil stupid things that IMO are far less important.

I'm not the one whining here.. albs are And fyi, hib casters are the only stun classes in hib.. mids got healers, and albs got.. clerics right? All in baseline afaik, but don't quote me on it, cause I never played cleric. Oh yes and of course minstrels too.

Besides, all I've seen so far are comparisons between BASELINE lifetap and SPECLINE DD's/Lifetaps.. Why the fuck do you think BASELINE lifetap is inferior to SPECLINE lifetap? Because of the word BASELINE! Is your average caster's baseline DD better than specline DD ? Would you use a baseline DD over a specline DD, when no resist factors are taken into consideration?

As far as I've understood, you spec in something because it makes you more powerful than what you gain just by lvling. You don't see fighters complaining that they do less damage unstyled than in style attacks do you? What's the problem here, if it isn't albs trying desperately to grab a bigger piece of the cake?


<no I didn't read all posts because i cba to>

 

[Balbor]

i still can't see what the fuss is about, especally against sorcerers when Cabalist have the same nuke and can debuff it.

Anyway lot of other characters in the game are much better single target nukers than Sorcerer.
All 3 Hib caster (Stun.Nuke and Debuff nuking for Enchanters), Runemasters (Debuff Nuking), Cabalists (Debuff Nuking) and Bone Dancers (instent Nuking).
I think if anyone should be complaining its wizards, who are supposed to be the most powerful offencive casters in the game becasue of there lack of utility. It looks like were taking what 7-8 DPS here, and there lots of other factors that come into it (remeber this isn't a 1vs1 game, its RvR) like cast speed bonues from Dex and TOA, Acuity Bonues, resists etc.

For any nuking to be effective in RvR you need to be debuff nuking and sorcerer cannot debuff nuke and a sorcerer can never nuke someone knowing 100% that target has been debuffed.

What about the wizards dd/debuff and ae dd/debuff spells only debuff for 20 seconds, which is low compared to the other dd/debuffs spells (runie, animist) at 1 minute duration?
Or shamens baseline DOT delving for the same as Cabalists spell line, and Shamens getting AOE Disease for free while Cabalist have to pay for it.
Healers get there first Instant Group Heal at level L21 while clerics only get theres at L23 and it goes on.

 

[Agrophel]

fuss when you have 90% abs (free RA in NF) + Moc LT and only need spend 1/3 of spec point and do same amout dmg as Main DD in Any realm + more Utility than any caster can get.

And mez last as long on sorc as as pure tank when he spend 34 RPS to get it. (NF)


oh yea SM LT have 1.5% higher resist rate then Sorc base LT

Sorc is about as overpowerd atm as Bers where in -1.62

 

[Pin]

only need spend 1/3 of spec point and do same amout dmg as Main DD in Any realm

If you can you tell me how 70.8 is the same as 78.4 I'll avoid mentioning bolts...

 

[Laston]

i still can't see what the fuss is about, especally against sorcerers when Cabalist have the same nuke and can debuff it.

Anyway lot of other characters in the game are much better single target nukers than Sorcerer.
All 3 Hib caster (Stun.Nuke and Debuff nuking for Enchanters), Runemasters (Debuff Nuking), Cabalists (Debuff Nuking) and Bone Dancers (instent Nuking).
I think if anyone should be complaining its wizards, who are supposed to be the most powerful offencive casters in the game becasue of there lack of utility. It looks like were taking what 7-8 DPS here, and there lots of other factors that come into it (remeber this isn't a 1vs1 game, its RvR) like cast speed bonues from Dex and TOA, Acuity Bonues, resists etc.

For any nuking to be effective in RvR you need to be debuff nuking and sorcerer cannot debuff nuke and a sorcerer can never nuke someone knowing 100% that target has been debuffed.

What about the wizards dd/debuff and ae dd/debuff spells only debuff for 20 seconds, which is low compared to the other dd/debuffs spells (runie, animist) at 1 minute duration?
Or shamens baseline DOT delving for the same as Cabalists spell line, and Shamens getting AOE Disease for free while Cabalist have to pay for it.
Healers get there first Instant Group Heal at level L21 while clerics only get theres at L23 and it goes on.

eh? just because you dont have someone debuff for you it isint the end of the world the thing is their baseline lifetap is same delve (if i read correctly) as the baseline DDs, and Animists get a lower level one cause it´s a lifetap, unlike sorcs so it heals em AND dd the enemy at same time for same dmg as a elds same baseline

u seem to forget not so long ago...all the complaints of Summoning SMs camping TG and nicking all the named mobs by focus pulling

and if u read above...i said they was mainly useful for PvE...with only limited use in RvR...comparing that to the sorcs matter line (which i was doing) then yes the summoning line is more useful

guess ur not so clever...otherwise u would read properly !

since when did you balance a class over pve? if you think like that doesnt it mean that Necros are perfectly fine? as they are omgwtfpwn at pve stuff

 

[Aeatan]

As for the sorc, I still don't see why everyone is whining about these statistics. They don't seem to affect the game much to me. It's not like it tips the balance in 1vs1 or 8vs8. There may be a little chance that it does, but that requires MoC and then you kill 1 target at most and is only really possible when the enemies you're fighting are sleeping and not MA you first or second like they always do.

 

[NeonBlue]

since when did you balance a class over pve? if you think like that doesnt it mean that Necros are perfectly fine? as they are omgwtfpwn at pve stuff

since the day u couldnt read properly

 

[NeonBlue]

As for the sorc, I still don't see why everyone is whining about these statistics. They don't seem to affect the game much to me. It's not like it tips the balance in 1vs1 or 8vs8. There may be a little chance that it does, but that requires MoC and then you kill 1 target at most and is only really possible when the enemies you're fighting are sleeping and not MA you first or second like they always do.

aint a clue...guess ppl just like something to whine at...so they make mountains out of mole hills

/shrug

 

[Laston]

since the day u couldnt read properly

but matter cabalists are ace for pve to :wub: recycable pet+ AE DoT so you can kite tons of mobs at same time

 

[Damon_D]

in my opinion that doesnt enter the argument...because the arguement is about a baseline spell that does slightly more dmg than a spec spell

but when ur talking about a HP return difference of 30%...then the extra points the SM spends to get this (imo) is worth it

If the Sorc HP return was the same then yes ur arguement would be valid

but thats just my view

Bull " Cough" Shit

 

[Antedeluvian]

Shaman aoe Disease is in spec line ... Cave magic

Hi Mr noob

http://www.camelotherald.com/spells/line.php?line=2900

And now look in Alb or Hib:


http://www.camelotherald.com/spells/line.php?line=4250 hib
http://www.camelotherald.com/spells/line.php?line=600 alb

Shamans have aoedisease in baseline while albion and hibernia need to espec for it, acording to the reasoning of some midgard players here lets nerf whole midgard (please, start nerfing healers CC)

 

[Laston]

Hi Mr noob

http://www.camelotherald.com/spells/line.php?line=2900

And now look in Alb or Hib:


http://www.camelotherald.com/spells/line.php?line=4250 hib
http://www.camelotherald.com/spells/line.php?line=600 alb

Shamans have aoedisease in baseline while albion and hibernia need to espec for it, acording to the reasoning of some midgard players here lets nerf whole midgard (please, start nerfing healers CC)

seriusly why dont they just make it bloody spec then so you whiners shut up for once i couldnt care less if it wasint baseline cause id still get it cause why should a Sham NOT spec in cave?

 

[Z^^]

since when do sorcs, cabs, wizzies or elds use pie?

when they are hungry,
mmmpie.. give pie

 

[Ctuchik]

Its fun with my sorc - to run solo in emain/odins then moc lifetap

hell i know its cheap/cheesy
great fun tho

well, u would love a bonedancer then.. if its only the cheap/cheesy part ur after...

 

[Indio]

i still can't see what the fuss is about, especally against sorcerers when Cabalist have the same nuke and can debuff it.

Anyway lot of other characters in the game are much better single target nukers than Sorcerer.
All 3 Hib caster (Stun.Nuke and Debuff nuking for Enchanters), Runemasters (Debuff Nuking), Cabalists (Debuff Nuking) and Bone Dancers (instent Nuking)............

What an amusing statement.

Well here we have someone who must have played every caster class/spec in the game and studied the technical attributes and capabilities - an expert, in fact.

Pray tell us the names of all your caster characters so we may further recognise your work.

 

[Vaar]

As for the sorc, I still don't see why everyone is whining about these statistics. They don't seem to affect the game much to me. It's not like it tips the balance in 1vs1 or 8vs8. There may be a little chance that it does, but that requires MoC and then you kill 1 target at most and is only really possible when the enemies you're fighting are sleeping and not MA you first or second like they always do.

Small reminder. The whines are made after NF. This "problem" did not surface that much in US old frontiers, same as here.

Theese days (my last check) Sorcs were the nr.1 RPLW class, even taking out scouts. Take in consideration that albs even have fewer targets than mid/hib this CAN be an indicator of something Some friends of mine in US are running a 6 sorc group theese days. I think that is a stament of sorts too.

I for one would find it reasonable if the Sorc (alb mage) LT was toned down. Spec should be significantly(...) better than baseline IMO.

 

[Balbor]

What an amusing statement.

Well here we have someone who must have played every caster class/spec in the game and studied the technical attributes and capabilities - an expert, in fact.

Pray tell us the names of all your caster characters so we may further recognise your work.

yes i must of been totally wrong when i put all Hib casters have Stun, oh wait just checking it and i was Right!
So i was probably wrong about Chanter Debuffing there Baseline Nuke, oh wait i was RIGHT again.
Well i must get this one wrong, Runemaster can also debuff there baseline, check that one,, ah they can I WAS RIGHT!
Now on to Cabalist, they have the same LT as sorcerers so i guess they must be on par with them, oh wait i said they have Debuff Nuking and ONCE AGAIN I WAS RIGHT!
Last the Bonedancers, only a fool would think there LT is instent caster but wait it is ME RIGHT! oh and wait they can also debuff that LT.

As fair as doing damage i think that make them all better at sorcerer for doing damage.

Seems people are mainly focusing on Sorcerer LT being over powered instead of Cabalist is because they really want Mezz nerfed so we are back to the day when albon has no way of winning CC.

 

[Eeli]

Last the Bonedancers, only a fool would think there LT is instent caster but wait it is ME RIGHT! oh and wait they can also debuff that LT

lol

bd lifetap is at 47 SPEC supression for 123 D. it's 4s.. always 4s, not 2.5, not 3 and not castingspeed % affected in anyway.

Leave the BD lt out of this, period.

 

[tedStar]

lol

bd lifetap is at 47 SPEC supression for 123 D. it's 4s.. always 4s, not 2.5, not 3 and not castingspeed % affected in anyway.

Leave the BD lt out of this, period.

lol, no castspeed & affects it, nor dex...

yes, but its INSTANT! and they can still baseline nuke (dark spec)
only way to stop a bd lifetapping is to stun.

 

[Shike]

yes i must of been totally wrong when i put all Hib casters have Stun, oh wait just checking it and i was Right!
So i was probably wrong about Chanter Debuffing there Baseline Nuke, oh wait i was RIGHT again.
Well i must get this one wrong, Runemaster can also debuff there baseline, check that one,, ah they can I WAS RIGHT!
Now on to Cabalist, they have the same LT as sorcerers so i guess they must be on par with them, oh wait i said they have Debuff Nuking and ONCE AGAIN I WAS RIGHT!
Last the Bonedancers, only a fool would think there LT is instent caster but wait it is ME RIGHT! oh and wait they can also debuff that LT.

As fair as doing damage i think that make them all better at sorcerer for doing damage.

Seems people are mainly focusing on Sorcerer LT being over powered instead of Cabalist is because they really want Mezz nerfed so we are back to the day when albon has no way of winning CC.

right.. ever heard of Animists? I cant see any stun in their spellines.

 

[Balbor]

right.. ever heard of Animists? I cant see any stun in their spellines.

in my initial post i said all 3 hib caster refering to the way of magic classes, not foresters line which can be both caster and warroir

 

[iluvatur]

i don't know why everyones still arguing, someones already said, and it's been like this for a long time, that lifetaps resist more often than normal dd's. This makes up for the 5/6% bonus or whatever.

Another thing is the power cost. The lifetap casts faster and is more power hungry than the dd, this means to be truly effective (against a decent group that doesn't roll over after two casts) that only a high rr caster can sustain a spec well with all the artifacts and power ra's.

i regularly use tartaros, mcl2, RP, (request power from sash if anyones is up) and power pots if need be in a single fight (44 mind 31 body, so my lifetap is my only viable damage output).

The only reason mids/hibs have started bitching is because alb has only just began to use the same strategy that hibs/mids have used for ages. /assist debuff nuke nuke nuke. And this game is about rvr ppl, albion is so dependant on sorcerers, of course they are going to be a strong class who have somewhat raised survibeabiltiy ( it didn't used to be like this believe me).

it's amazing how anyone takes anything seriously from VN boards, all those retards crying how gimped all realms are, when we've had good groups from all realms fighting on excalibur since retail (more succesful guilds on hib/mid like DH and NP admittedly)

people should look to maximise their potential rather than lowering other peoples, it's alot more rewarding and more often than not guaranteed to suceed.