News Italy Credit rating cut

[rynnor]

The Euro staggers another step closer to extinction...

BBC News - Italy credit rating slashed by Moody's from Aa2 to A2

 

[ECA]

No shit, they let every country in that wanted in to try and make the euro a "big" success, instead they let in greece, spain, portugal, italy who all hid their problems to get in, and now they're paying the price.

Either 10-20 years of shitty economy if they prop the euro up, or a massive clusterfuck that forces several countries out of the euro and possibly harms the EU ( good ).

Those are the options, and atm it looks like they are going for the long game.

 

[TdC]

just so I am clear on things...why exactly is harming the EU good?

 

[Zarjazz]

It's not good in the short term, but an obviously needed correction to a momentary system with major problems can only be good thing in the long term. Even if it means kicking out those countries that can't be helped or will not fix their systemic internal economic faults (e.g Greece)

Even if I agree with the Euro in principle the decision to stay out of it is looking better and better for the UK almost every day in the current situation.

 

[rynnor]

I think the thing that really dooms the euro is its lack of a central controller - it cant defend itself without going to a comittee of countries who deliberate at length.

If the eurozone had reacted swiftly and decisively to greece we wouldnt be here but instead it reveals the fatal flaw in the idea of a single currency but everyone having their own independant financial control.

And seriously how were the southern european countries ever going to really co-exist with the northern powerhouses?

 

[Raven]

pwnt

 

[Moriath]

wish they would get it over and default so we can move on ffs

 

[ECA]

just so I am clear on things...why exactly is harming the EU good?

Because except for free trade it's a fucking awful idea?

 

[mr.Blacky]

The Euro staggers another step closer to extinction...

BBC News - Italy credit rating slashed by Moody's from Aa2 to A2

before you link you might want to investigate how good that rating agency is...
While I do not wish that certain countries are part of the Euro, that agency is just crap.
Remember the banking crises? they rated all the crappy morgages as being sound, even if everyone knew that they were not. If that doesnt tell you enough then I would say look more into it.

Political motivated rating agencies should not have the influence they have

 

[ECA]

Politically motivated lol.

Also, standard and poors, moodys and fitch all misrated the bad debt bonds in 2007, every single one.

Whats your specific criticism of Moodys that doesn't apply to S&P and Fitch?

 

[ilaya]

world economy...

switch it off and turn it back on again using factory settings

 

[old.Tohtori]

English just don't like the euro cause it reminds them too much of the unified roman currency system

Which ironically the pound is based on.

 

[Raven]

No, it's because its a waste of time.

 

[gohan]

English just don't like the euro cause it reminds them too much of the unified roman currency system

Which ironically the pound is based on.

o0 in what way is the pound based on Roman money?

in the early republic the main coins were then denarius and the sestertius
4 den to a sest, that's more like US coinange with quaters ect....

It did eventually change to include smaller coins aswell but never in 10's, augustus changed to to just double value by adding a half sestertius and a double and double double ect ect so like 1 2 4 8 16

 

[old.Tohtori]

The name more then anything(libra pondo, pound of weight., Though all banking systems owe their debt to the roman banking system in some fashion.

More funny is that the sunday roast is a roman invention

 

[Embattle]

Euro wasn't setup very well to deal with such issues, the rules were lax and the response has been slow is it any wonder then that various countries are being downgraded?

 

[DaGaffer]

o0 in what way is the pound based on Roman money?

in the early republic the main coins were then denarius and the sestertius
4 den to a sest, that's more like US coinange with quaters ect....

It did eventually change to include smaller coins aswell but never in 10's, augustus changed to to just double value by adding a half sestertius and a double and double double ect ect so like 1 2 4 8 16

The name more then anything(libra pondo, pound of weight., Though all banking systems owe their debt to the roman banking system in some fashion.

More funny is that the sunday roast is a roman invention

The Pound's origins are sort of based on Roman currency, but not directly. The original silver penny was created as an analog to the Carolingian denarius (Charlemagne) using the same weight of silver as the Frankish coin, and that was in turn lifted from the original Roman system, but used a different silver weight.

NB. "Pound" doesn't come from latin, it comes from the German "punda". Dollars also come from the German Taler/Thaler.

I blame Neal Stephenson, The System of The World got me interested in the history of money and banking and I read up on all this stuff a few years ago.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Ah but the german word does come from latin

I think most influence to the current english money system(outside words) comes from france though. Not 100% sure, just watched some documentary on england and half assed watching at that

 

[Raven]

The German word comes from Germany funnily enough.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Feeling a bit like a wanker today Raven?

 

[DaGaffer]

Ah but the german word does come from latin

I think most influence to the current english money system(outside words) comes from france though. Not 100% sure, just watched some documentary on england and half assed watching at that

Like I said, the original English currency was copied from the Carolingians, so, Franco-German basically, but the "modern" version of the pound (paper money, gold-backed etc.) was based on a mix of Swedish and Dutch ideas, but was much more advanced than either, and modern currency (and banking) is very much Britain's "gift" to the world. You're welcome.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Like I said, the original English currency was copied from the Carolingians, so, Franco-German basically, but the "modern" version of the pound (paper money, gold-backed etc.) was based on a mix of Swedish and Dutch ideas, but was much more advanced than either, and modern currency (and banking) is very much Britain's "gift" to the world. You're welcome.

Yeap, pretty much how all aspects of social evolution should work; give/take idea, improve, puff puff, pass to the left

Oh yeah, sorry for the derail, was meant more as a haha post about english-roman relations.

 

[Kahland]

EU rox m8s, the euro might not. No extinction with Germany there though!

EU helps as in making us a superpowerz.

Dont forget that the economical union of the EU makes us the worlds largest economy, even bigger than USA and China

Supreme state anyone?! ook.

 

[Raven]

What did the Romans ever do for us?

And no, the sooner the Union collapses the sooner we can get on with things. It's a burden to the rich members and a crutch for the poor members

 

[old.Tohtori]

What have the Romans ever done for us - YouTube

 

[DaGaffer]

What did the Romans ever do for us?

And no, the sooner the Union collapses the sooner we can get on with things. It's a burden to the rich members and a crutch for the poor members

I don't think the Euro will die, but I do think it'll get pared back to a core group with some pretty severe membership rules, and possibly that might mean greater political union within that group. Problem at the moment is they will need a legal change to a. kick countries out of the Euro, b. not kick them out of the entire EU. There's no mechanism for a Euro breakup as yet.

 

[Scouse]

modern currency (and banking) is very much Britain's "gift" to the world. You're welcome.

I wouldn't put it that way. I'd rather say we're sorry...

The americans tried to escape it through their ultimately failed revolution and even mighty China runs their own version in the face of a world that would otherwise have outrun them.

It does mean that large swathes of their population now work 6 days a week in fenced off concentration-camp-like communities for tuppence a decade, but lets not dwell on that eh?

 

[DaGaffer]

I wouldn't put it that way. I'd rather say we're sorry...

I was being ironic.

 

[Tuthmes]

The EU has bin forced upon the citizens long enough. I havent come across anyone in my life who really want's it. Yeah I suppose cheap labor from the eastern Europe is fine for businesses, but even that has it's major downsides. Most people really don't give a damn and in political terms that means you can do as you want.

Centralized goverment for Europe? Time and time has shown that this doesnt work. There's way to much difference in cultures (which is what makes Europe so great). There are many examples out there where the EU has negative effect on small businesses and where the large coöperations benefit (regulations, etc).

Forming a union to oppose the USA and China and other major countries? We've done fine in the past when the USA and Russia where "the big" ones.

In short the only thing that's good about it is financially and even that is turning out to be a farce. The "it's too late to turn back now" is a recipe for disaster really.

 

[rynnor]

before you link you might want to investigate how good that rating agency is...Remember the banking crises? they rated all the crappy morgages as being sound, even if everyone knew that they were not. If that doesnt tell you enough then I would say look more into it.

They all dropped the ball on the re-packaged mortgages but it seems a strange thing that people criticise them now they are doing their job i.e. highlighting risks?