Israel/Palestine (Conflict to more Conflicts)

[Embattle]

ICJ says Israeli occupation of Palestinian territories is illegal

It also says Israel should end all settlement activity there, in the landmark case.

www.bbc.co.uk

Doubt it'll have much effect.

 

[Scouse]

Doubt it'll have much effect.

Maybe generationally.

One thing's true though. If we are supposed to be doubling-down on the "rule of law", then continuing to back Israel the way we're doing is getting more awkward by the second.

But then, we've got a confirmed zionist for PM, so what can you do eh?

 

[Scouse]

So then. With the ICJ ruling that Israel's occupation is illegal, that the Palestinians are due reparations for 57 years of abuse and that Israel's stated intent and settlement activity constitutes a de-facto annexation.

In that context, Palestinian attacks can be likened to Ukranian attacks against Russia - a people fighting against an invader.

Funny eh?

Of course, they're hamstrung by the fact we're not arming them to the teeth. But because they're not prohibited from attacking in enemy territory, on pain of losing western backing, they're free to do what Ukraine can't.

Horrible. But inevitable at some point. And dare I say it, given the context, fair game?

I mean, humans killing humans is always dumb. But in the context of a brutal 57 year occupation by an abusive racist aggressor who'd love to see your extermination...

 

[Scouse]

Was gonna link to this in that:

Why ICJ ruling against Israel’s settlement policies will be hard to ignore

Judgment challenges allies such as UK and US, which for years soft-pedalled on occupation of Palestinian territories

www.theguardian.com

 

[old.Osy]

I'll just leave this here, was unsure where to plaster it.

Germany bans Islamic Centre Hamburg over radical Islamist ties and extremism

Germany’s interior ministry banned the Islamic Centre Hamburg and its branches for pursuing radical Islamist goals and promoting extremism.

www.jpost.com

 

[Scouse]

I don't think anyone's denying the existence of radical Islam old.Osy? Random spam would have been fine? But if you want to re-post stuff from the Jerusalem post about stuff going on in Germany in the Gaza thread... 🤷

To engage though - frankly, we should be tearing through similar here. Banning sharia courts in the UK. Frankly - all faith courts.

However, look at the shitshow of faith schools. Of which Jewish faith schools, predictably, are the most discriminatory. There's a legal requirement to admit all pupils, but jewish faith schools often refuse to teach non-jews (or even jews that "aren't jewish enough").

Catholic schools admit non-catholics, CofE teach everyone. As far as I'm aware no islamic schools in the UK are guilty of not admitting non-muslims - as is their legal responsibility. But then, Judaism has real form for that.


TLDR: Religion is a shitshow. There's still racist genocide going on in Gaza by a country that's been committing repeated war-crimes since 1967, propped us by us.

 

[Gwadien]

I don't think anyone's denying the existence of radical Islam old.Osy? Random spam would have been fine? But if you want to re-post stuff from the Jerusalem post about stuff going on in Germany in the Gaza thread... 🤷

To engage though - frankly, we should be tearing through similar here. Banning sharia courts in the UK. Frankly - all faith courts.

However, look at the shitshow of faith schools. Of which Jewish faith schools, predictably, are the most discriminatory. There's a legal requirement to admit all pupils, but jewish faith schools often refuse to teach non-jews (or even jews that "aren't jewish enough").

Catholic schools admit non-catholics, CofE teach everyone. As far as I'm aware no islamic schools in the UK are guilty of not admitting non-muslims - as is their legal responsibility. But then, Judaism has real form for that.


TLDR: Religion is a shitshow. There's still racist genocide going on in Gaza by a country that's been committing repeated war-crimes since 1967, propped us by us.

'Faith courts' are misleading though, it's asking advice from your religious leader and taking it as gospel.

What does need to happen is oversight from fellow leaders in Islam that aren't subscribed to extremist beliefs which in turn has oversight from the Government to ensure we're not giving oversight roles to extremists.

Banning it pushes it further underground and causes further problems.

War on drugs analogy.

 

[Scouse]

'Faith courts' are misleading though, it's asking advice from your religious leader and taking it as gospel.

What does need to happen is oversight from fellow leaders in Islam that aren't subscribed to extremist beliefs which in turn has oversight from the Government to ensure we're not giving oversight roles to extremists.

Banning it pushes it further underground and causes further problems.

War on drugs analogy.

Disagree. Sharia courts (which is what they are) aren't addictive. They're attended by the willing and unwilling alike - and, crucially, expanding.

Multifaceted approach required. Not appeasement.

This should start with scrapping the policy of the last Labour government and enforcing secular schooling. Faith schools underwent massive expansion Blair. Not surprising, because he was a warmongering christian fundamentalist. And against overwhelming evidence of their ills, and clear evidence that they do not produce better educational outcomes, they're everywhere - promoting social exclusion, division, their own brand of sexual morality law and generally pushing the wider interests of their religion over the interests of the children.

And although we should focus on christian faith schools, because the number of pupils there = most widespread harm, the most-harmed pupils are those that attend exclusive jewish faith schools, with zero exposure to us gentiles...

 

[old.Osy]

Religion has no place in formal education.

Don't call education what is actually religious indoctrination. Religious courts? It's not 1600s.

 

[Scouse]

Jibaliya refugee camp, post Israeli love.

 

[Scouse]

I see Israel is desparately trying to start a regional war.

I'd be nice if the leader of Hamas could have been brought in front of the ICJ. And, of course, Netenyahu.

 

[Embattle]

I see Israel is desparately trying to start a regional war.

I'd be nice if the leader of Hamas could have been brought in front of the ICJ. And, of course, Netenyahu.

America needs to do something soon since Netenyahu will fight until the last American.

 

[Scouse]

America needs to do something soon since Netenyahu will fight until the last American.

Confirmed zionist President? Just like confirmed zionist Labour Leader.

Ain't happening.

 

[Embattle]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NT9u9P2Tc0

 

[Scouse]

This isn't the Trump's a dick thread. We all know that. But I got as far as 2:05 where they were shit-calling Trump for calling a guy a crappy jew, because he verbally nodded at Sid Rosenberg - who's jewish - calling another Jewish guy a crappy jew.

That's really a conversation about about zionists vs non-zionists. And there are non-zionist Jews. And Trump and Biden and Starmer are all disgusting, horrible zionists.

 

[Scouse]

Question @Wij. Has time amended your position?

Really interesting long read from this Israel-born Jewish historian who in November 2023 wrote in the New York Times that genocide wasn't being committed:

As a former IDF soldier and historian of genocide, I was deeply disturbed by my recent visit to Israel

The long read: This summer, one of my lectures was protested by far-right students. Their rhetoric brought to mind some of the darkest moments of 20th-century history – and overlapped with mainstream Israeli views to a shocking degree

www.theguardian.com

 

[BloodOmen]

I think we can all agree

Fuck Israel
Fuck Islam (atleast, the radical side of it)
Fuck petty wars propped up by our governments

Times like this I wish I had magical powers, I'd just teleport the lot of the cunts to another world so we can live in peace

 

[Scouse]

I think we can all agree

I'm not sure we can.

 

[caLLous]

Whatever just happened in Lebanon is absolutely wild. Several killed and going on for 3,000 injured by pagers that Israel somehow simultaneously exploded (presumably by hijacking the supply chain somehow).

Thousands hurt by exploding pagers across Lebanon, health minister says

Lebanon says eight people have been killed after the series of blasts across the country earlier on Tuesday.

www.bbc.com

 

[DaGaffer]

Whatever just happened in Lebanon is absolutely wild. Several killed and going on for 3,000 injured by pagers that Israel somehow simultaneously exploded (presumably by hijacking the supply chain somehow).

Thousands hurt by exploding pagers across Lebanon, health minister says

Lebanon says eight people have been killed after the series of blasts across the country earlier on Tuesday.

www.bbc.com

Holy shit. Exploit to overload the battery maybe?

 

[Scouse]

Holy shit. Exploit to overload the battery maybe?

It's saying that there's a chance that they were packed with small amounts of high explosives. But that's what I thought too.

Makes you wonder about your mobile phone eh

 

[Scouse]

Wow. The video of the pager going off in the mans bag in the shopping mall as he's buying fruit.

Israel really doesn't give a fuck about who they kill do they. 8 year old girl dead too.

 

[Gwadien]

Wow. The video of the pager going off in the mans bag in the shopping mall as he's buying fruit.

Israel really doesn't give a fuck about who they kill do they. 8 year old girl dead too.

I don't see how the West can condone this, there's a big difference between striking 'military targets' and passing them as legitimate and doing a mass attack like that among civilians, it's terrorism.

 

[Scouse]

I don't see how the West can condone this, there's a big difference between striking 'military targets' and passing them as legitimate and doing a mass attack like that among civilians, it's terrorism.

We probably provided the fucking explosives.

 

[Embattle]

I don't see how the West can condone this, there's a big difference between striking 'military targets' and passing them as legitimate and doing a mass attack like that among civilians, it's terrorism.

Easy, Israel won't admit it was them thus the West won't condone it.

 

[Embattle]

Exploding walkie-talkies now.

 

[Scouse]

But Israel isn't a terrorist state.

 

[DaGaffer]

But Israel isn't a terrorist state.

Hezbollah bought the pagers and issued them to their own people; I'm struggling to see why everyone's getting salty about this one; killing your enemy's Comms is a legitimate tactic. More fool Hezbollah for being so easily compromised.

 

[Scouse]

Hezbollah bought the pagers and issued them to their own people; I'm struggling to see why everyone's getting salty about this one; killing your enemy's Comms is a legitimate tactic. More fool Hezbollah for being so easily compromised.

Exploding devices in people's pockets when they're in shops, cinemas, or sat with their grandchildren on their laps isn't OK.

But Israel has seemingly created a world where it's OK for civilians to be directly in the firing line.

 

[DaGaffer]

Exploding devices in people's pockets when they're in shops, cinemas, or sat with their grandchildren on their laps isn't OK.

But Israel has seemingly created a world where it's OK for civilians to be directly in the firing line.

If it was an exploding gun in their pocket would that be ok? The pager is a weapon, being used by Hezbollah as a weapon. If it was located alongside civilians, that's on Hezbollah, an organisation that routinely hides it's weapons amongst civilians.

I'm no fan of Israel, but this is literally about as near a perfect precision strike as is humanly possible.